UVB recommendations?

[sjl]

I wondered if anyone could point me to the appropriate UVB output bulbs for a Testudo graeca ibera approximately 7 months old and 2 Jordanian or Jordanian/Antakyan cross approximately 1 year olds. I've been using an Exoterra Reptiglo 5.0 UVB and 75 watt UVA basking bulb combo for the summer but the temps are getting way too hot with that configuration (I don't want to cook or dehydrate the little guys!). It also makes the very small spaces nearly inaccessible with all the clamp lamps and stands. I was looking into the long fluorescents for UVB/UVA for space efficiency but the output is still only 5% UVB and 30% UVA (for heat I was thinking a small watt halogen). What outputs should they actually be getting?

I really need to consider watt consumption also as we recently moved to a new apartment that is prone to blown fuses so the more efficient the better. The 5.0 long bulbs (24") are 20W and the halogen basking are 50W so I'd have 190W total for the rest of the warm months. I would probably just add back the ceramic bulbs come winter to keep temps up and/or switch out the halogen for my 75W basking bulbs.

(I should probably add that I'm particularly concerned about lighting and UVA/UVB levels because the ibera appears to be showing some classic signs of hatchling failure syndrome via MBD - despite treatment in June for parasites - still puffy, sleeps in water dish sometimes, drinks A LOT*, wildly sporadic appetite*, not particularly impressive activity levels*, even for a baby, very soft plastron near the center that seems to be getting worse not better* - I have to be doing something wrong and even if I can't bring this one back - I REALLY HOPE I CAN - I don't want to continue to do wrong for the others - *have been present issues since I got him that have not improved or gotten worse)

(The other details too, if anyone will want to know them: each tortoise in its own 2' by 1' pine box enclosure 1/3 eco earth 2/3 aspen shavings, mist eco earth to try to keep eco earth as humid end but am adding a humid hide box with a damp sponge attached to the interior to boost the humidity from 40% to 60%, offer at least a small feeding daily either organic spring mix/baby lettuces or moistened tortoise pellet with calcium dust, less often dandelion, turnip, mizuna, or radish greens and plantain. Ambient air about 80 daytime, 70 nighttime, basking at least 95 but it has been over 105 with my lighting configuration which is why I'd like to change it)

Thanks in advance!

 

[CGKeith]

It sounds like you are on the right track.

How close do you have the lights to the floor of the enclosure?

The florescent tubes are ok for the UVB but they need to be within less than 8 inches to get much benefit. I still have some set-ups with them. I hang them down to within about 4-5 inches for my hatchlings. The rest of my set-ups have a mercury vapor bulb.

How deep is the substrate? Mine all love to bury themselves, usually under the hot part where the basking light is. ( I use damp cypress mulch)

You may need to use a larger enclosure to get a temp range so they can have a hot end and a cooler end. That size will only last them a few short months. They grow pretty rapidly the first year.

Sorry, I just re-read your post about how old they are. They definitely need larger areas.

 

[sjl]

The lights are currently at 8 inches, which was totally by chance =) These are the 10% UVB output bulbs. There's another 3-4 inches of substrate, depending on where in the enclosure. I decided to pick up dimmer clip lamps this afternoon for the basking lights which are at about 7 inches. Now that I can dim them, the temperatures are much more normal in the basking area, so hopefully that's one problem solved!

I was planning to upgrade the space for the two larger tortoises at the end of the summer when they should be approximately 1 year old (I'm really guessing their ages based on what the breeder told me, supposedly 3 months old in February) - they're just over 3 inches long now so probably 6 square feet for each. When I just had 2 of the torts I originally had them together in one 3' by 2' tortoise table (the commercial one by Zoomed) but it was recommended that I separate them because of bullying. The smaller (supposedly 1 month old in February) is still so small (still under 2 inches) so I was going to try to overwinter him in the current enclosure. You definitely think he's too big for a 2' by 1'?

I also picked up some liquid vitamin and calcium for reptiles (I saw a few posts around the forum that addressed ways to revive an ailing youngin that I'm going to try). I really like Yvonne's soaking in baby food + water idea! I'm going to try that if the liquid supplement soaks don't help. I wrapped him in a warm, damp washcloth and sat in the sun with him for a while this afternoon. He ate several leaves of spring mix and was in and out of his water dish a few times, without falling asleep in it. Such a cute little thing that worries me something insane =)

 

[CGKeith]

The little one is probably ok in the little enclosure as long as there is a temp range for it from one side to the other.

Not sure what other advice I could give. You seem to have found good info and are going about it right.

Keep us updated.

 

[Kristina]

I am a firm believer that the fluorescent UV lamps are pure and simple junk. I have seen too many tortoises and other reptiles (Bearded dragons, Iguanas, etc.) fail under them to have any faith in them whatsoever. The amount of actual UV they put out is negligible. It is a waste of your money.

My suggestion is to get bigger enclosures, and to get some MVB's. (Mercury vapor bulbs.) Sweater boxes would work fine. They cost about $9 each. The enclosure needs to be big enough that there is a temp gradient and that the babies can get away from the heat.

Second, get those babies out under natural sunshine for at least 20 mins, 2-3 times a week. There is no substitute for natural sunshine. No lamp in the world can compare. The little one that is failing - go with the baby food and vitamin soaks, administer calcium carbonate, and get him some sunshine ASAP.

 

[sjl]

Thanks! I'll definitely continue to update.

For now, I'm going to try Keith's suggestions with the higher efficiency bulbs I have (already wasted my money on). But thank you for your input, I'll definitely think about MVBs in the future =)

 

[Kristina]

If you are going to stick with the tube bulbs, please follow my suggestion about outside time. I am serious, it could mean life or death.

 

[sjl]

I've seen some pretty heated debates re: tube fluroescents, coiled bulbs, mercury vapor, etc. on the forum. I come away from those debates convinced only that coiled UVB bulbs are bad news. I feel pretty comfortable with the others (except maybe Zilla, which have been recalled). I know some folks strongly prefer one type to another. I'm most concerned about which output to choose. The ReptiGlo 10.0, for example, claims effectiveness up to 20 inches at 10%. I suppose I'll just get a UV meter and test it myself.

Unfortunately I have mostly concrete for a yard, and the small patches of grass there are, are heavily treated with fertilizers and weed killers by my landlord. I bring my tortoises outside and let them crawl around in my grape plant planters on the porch occasionally between June and September.

 

[Kristina]

Well, I am not trying to debate. I did give you my opinion on the lights, but it is just that, an opinion, and I realize that. I am saying that for the hatchling that is failing, sunlight is needed. If that means in a kiddie pool with some cypress mulch, then that is fine. It doesn't have to be on the ground, and as I said before, 20 minutes a day, 2-3 times a week is better than nothing, and can mean the difference between MBD and a healthy hard shell.

In the end, it is your tortoise and your decision how you treat it. I do wish you the best of luck, and I hope the baby gets better.

 

[sjl]

I'll definitely add more sunshine time. I hope he gets better too =)