Urgent Help Needed - Shell Rot

[515miker]

Hello all, I'm a little upset to make this my second post but my newly acquired Russian tortoise Hodor is showing shell rot in a few spots on his underside.

Backstory: I have had him for about a month now. I found him on a local classifieds site from a girl who could no longer keep him due to the dogs in her house. He came with two lamps (heat/UVB), and in an aquarium with reptile bark substrate. While doing research I came to realize aquariums are not the best enclosures for these tortoises. I've had plans to get him into a better enclosure but while devising plans for his new home it appears he has somehow developed shell rot.



I'm also worried he is showing some on the top of his shell as well.



I just noticed this yesterday while giving him a soak. I must admit, I thought I inspected his shell when I acquired him and I am almost certain there were no signs of anything like this. I feel horrible that I did this to him, or contributed to the problem at the very least. I did not know shell rot could accelerate so quickly. I've been feeding him romaine lettuce, spring mix, kale, timothy hay.. occasionally spraying his food with a vitamin supplement. I keep fresh water available at all times and soak him once or twice a week. I believe I went wrong with the substrate and the humidity. The hydrometer read around 30-40% but I disregarded that thinking he would be fine given he is a desert tortoise. Obviously this lead to a terrible outcome.

I've scheduled a vet appointment but I wasn't able to get one until Monday. I've been doing research of home remedies for shell rot and ran across this: http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/shellrot.html

I haven't tried any specific remedy yet because I noticed that site is catered to turtles. I soaked him today and brushed his shell with a mild soap to clean out the wounds. I'm letting him sleep in a cardboard box tonight because I heard air is good for the rot. Tomorrow I will finish up his new enclosure which is made of an old dresser. I will use top soil and washed play sand in a 50/50 mix for his substrate.



My main question here is this: Is there anything I can do to begin healing the shell rot?

Would a vet visit be absolutely necessary at this point? Please don't interpret this question as me doubting the seriousness of this issue. I am not putting him back in that aquarium and will keep a closer eye on him from now on.

If there is any advice any of you could provide it would be greatly appreciated. I tried searching for shell rot here on the forum but I found nothing but what appeared to be concerned owners wanting opinions on whether or not their tortoise had shell rot. I'm no reptile expert but I am pretty sure this is shell rot, now I just need to know how to fix it.

Please help! Thanks for your time and sorry for the long read.

-Mike

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It looks like dog bites to me...But I would lower the UVB light to 12 inches from the tortoise, make that tort table but don't use 50$ sand about 25% is better. Sand causes impaction. Put in enough substrate so he can bury himself...Get some Nolvasan ( Chlorhexadine). Mix it 20 to 1 with water and clean those spots several times a day. I don't think at this time that a Vet is necessary, keep an eye on those spots and if they worsen then go. You can also use that same stuff that is used for athletes foot. or any other fungicide. As well as the Nolvasan...

 

[StarSapphire22]

Maggies got good advice. You can treat as shellrot for a bit just in case, but I agree it looks more like a wound, possibly with some staining from substrate (the staining is just cosmetic, happens all the time!). Keep it clean and I don't see any problems. Just a soft toothbrush during soaks on the spots to remove debris. Shells take a while to heal. I would soak every other day and take that time to clean the wounds.

Most people here will tell you no sand, period. Maggie is right about impaction. I imagine it may also irritate the wound. Use topsoil, coco coir, orchid bark, or a combination of those instead.

Also, provided your humidity gauge is accurate, those numbers are just fine. That's pretty standard for Russians.

Regarding the vet, I don't think it's necessary at this point.

Even if it IS shellrot (which I don't think it is), you don't need to freak out. It's not very serious, is easily treated, and just about everyone deals with it at some point.

 

[515miker]

It looks like dog bites to ...

Thanks for the advice. I would have to second guess you about this being caused by dogs. If you look closely at my first picture you can see the "rot" follow along the scale (under his front left leg.) I kind of find it hard to believe that a dog bite would follow under the scale like that but like I said, I'm no expert and I'm still new to tortoises.

Maggies got good advice. You can treat as shellrot for a bit just in case, but ...

Thanks for your reply.

What do you two mean by impaction? I've seen some mention of the Nolvasan elsewhere. Is this usually available at vet clinics only or could I find it at a pet shop? Also, do the lights I have in the last picture seem adequate for the enclosure? He will be staying in the dresser (the larger "box"), not the cardboard box.

Thanks again!

 

[515miker]

Also, would top soil and a top layer of fresh reptile bark be a suitable substrate?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Thanks for the advice. I would have to second guess you about this being caused by dogs. If you look closely at my first picture you can see the "rot" follow along the scale (under his front left leg.) I kind of find it hard to believe that a dog bite would follow under the scale like that but like I said, I'm no expert and I'm still new to tortoises.



Thanks for your reply.

What do you two mean by impaction? I've seen some mention of the Nolvasan elsewhere. Is this usually available at vet clinics only or could I find it at a pet shop? Also, do the lights I have in the last picture seem adequate for the enclosure? He will be staying in the dresser (the larger "box"), not the cardboard box.

Thanks again!

Impaction is when the sand builds up in their bowel and gut and can't pass. Makes for a pretty sick animal. It sticks to their food and is ingested. Lights are fine (as long as it's NOT a coil bulb) just too far away, should be about 12 inches from the substrate. Nolvasan is also called Chlohexidine, I bought a gallon at my local feed store. Sometimes you can find Nolvasan at the pharmacy. Or on line. It's the blue stuff Doctors use to sterilize their instruments. Mix 20 to 1.
See on his carapace the crack? Shell rot would not do that. On his plastron I see 2 kinda deep holes I have never seen rot look like that or that color. Now cut me some slack, . because I am trying to diagnose from a photo. Granted it's a good close up but... I'm thinkin a dog bite would be deep like that and would make a crack along that line. I'm going to PM Yvonne G. she's a lot more experienced with Russians and rot then I am. She will help you more then I can. Tortadise will also help. If I were you I would use fine grade orchid bark. Don't buy any supplies from a pet store, too expensive and not the right stuff. Reptile bark IMO is too big, color runs and hard to keep damp not wet for needed humidity. You can also get a 'brick' of coir but it's fine and sticks to the food and the animal. I personally don't like it. The big box stores generally carry orchid bark. You could mix top soil and the bark for a good substrate. Or use top soil and sphagnum moss on top of it. I use only orchid bark...

 

[Yvonne G]

I agree these spots look more like an old injury than shell rot. A Russian tortoise wouldn't get shell rot on his carapace anyway. Shell fungus comes from the shell being in contact all the time with wet soil/substrate, and most usually starts on the plastron. The treatment for shell rot is harmless, so even if it is an old injury and not rot, treating it as rot won't do any damage. Take a tooth brush and scrub the spots clean with peroxide or chlorhexidine (Nolvesan). You can buy it at the pharmacy. Its the product doctors use to scrub before surgery. Rinse it off good, dry it then rub in some athlete foot cream. You can do this daily. If it's rot you will start to see an improvement in a week or so. If old damage, like I suspect, you're not going to see any improvement. Shell damage from an old injury takes a very long time for you to see any improvement...maybe even a year.

Quit beating yourself up over this. Unless you had the tortoise sitting in water or very wet substrate 24/7, you did not cause this problem.

 

[tortadise]

I agree with Maggie. It's some sort of previous puncture that seems to have partially healed. Either a dog, in this case knowing where the animal came from with dog(s) is more plausible. None the less, we need to help get this looking better. Get a cheap soft tooth brush and some chlorohexadine solution at Walgreens, scrub it daily and dry it out with a paper towel. You can also apply some triple antibiotic ointment on it a few times a week. But if doing that it does need to air out and make sure it's very clean and scrubbed when placing that on it. Usually a few weeks to a month of scrubbing before applying an ointment over top is best. Don't want to seal in any bacteria. You can also get some sterile saline and flush it out before scrubbing the area.

 

[515miker]

Impaction is when the sand builds up in their bowel and gut and can't pass. Makes for a pretty sick animal. It sticks to their food and is ingested. Lights are fine (as long as it's NOT a coil bulb) just too far away, should be about 12 inches from the substrate. Nolvasan is also called Chlohexidine, I bought a gallon at my local feed store. Sometimes you can find Nolvasan at the pharmacy. Or on line. It's the blue stuff Doctors use to sterilize their instruments. Mix 20 to 1.
See on his carapace the crack? Shell rot would not do that. On his plastron I see 2 kinda deep holes I have never seen rot look like that or that color. Now cut me some slack, . because I am trying to diagnose from a photo. Granted it's a good close up but... I'm thinkin a dog bite would be deep like that and would make a crack along that line. I'm going to PM Yvonne G. she's a lot more experienced with Russians and rot then I am. She will help you more then I can. Tortadise will also help. If I were you I would use fine grade orchid bark. Don't buy any supplies from a pet store, too expensive and not the right stuff. Reptile bark IMO is too big, color runs and hard to keep damp not wet for needed humidity. You can also get a 'brick' of coir but it's fine and sticks to the food and the animal. I personally don't like it. The big box stores generally carry orchid bark. You could mix top soil and the bark for a good substrate. Or use top soil and sphagnum moss on top of it. I use only orchid bark...

I wasn't able to find any orchid bark so I went with sphagnum moss along with top soil. I found some Nolvasan at the store today but the price was pretty steep ($29 for 1 pint). I went to Walgreens and Wal-Mart and neither store had heard of the stuff. Neither of them had generic versions either. I'm going back tomorrow to pick up the Nolvasan unless peroxide really is ok to use. I'd also like to say thank you, you have been very helpful.

I agree these spots look more like an old injury than shell rot. A Russian tortoise wouldn't get shell rot on his carapace anyway. Shell fungus comes from the shell being in contact all the time with wet soil/substrate, and most usually starts on the plastron. The treatment for shell rot is harmless, so even if it is an old injury and not rot, treating it as rot won't do any damage. Take a tooth brush and scrub the spots clean with peroxide or chlorhexidine (Nolvesan). You can buy it at the pharmacy. Its the product doctors use to scrub before surgery. Rinse it off good, dry it then rub in some athlete foot cream. You can do this daily. If it's rot you will start to see an improvement in a week or so. If old damage, like I suspect, you're not going to see any improvement. Shell damage from an old injury takes a very long time for you to see any improvement...maybe even a year.

Quit beating yourself up over this. Unless you had the tortoise sitting in water or very wet substrate 24/7, you did not cause this problem.

Is peroxide truly ok to use in place of Nolvasan? Would I have to water it down any? I'm glad to know I'm not at fault, thanks for the reply.

I agree with Maggie. It's some sort of previous puncture that seems to have partially healed. Either a dog, in this case knowing where the animal came from with dog(s) is more plausible. None the less, we need to help get this looking better. Get a cheap soft tooth brush and some chlorohexadine solution at Walgreens, scrub it daily and dry it out with a paper towel. You can also apply some triple antibiotic ointment on it a few times a week. But if doing that it does need to air out and make sure it's very clean and scrubbed when placing that on it. Usually a few weeks to a month of scrubbing before applying an ointment over top is best. Don't want to seal in any bacteria. You can also get some sterile saline and flush it out before scrubbing the area.

Thanks for the advice. I plan to start scrubbing him tomorrow.

Hodor seems to be quite happy in his new enclosure..

 

[StarSapphire22]

My WalMart had nolvasan, but it wasn't labeled as such. Its called chlorhexidine something I think...it was in a plastic bottle, bluish in color. It was about 6 dollars or so. Look for it near other disinfectants and antibacterials. Other members have reported finding it there consistently, so I would go back and check one more time. For me, it was right next to the betadine. Good luck!