Update On Alice's Diet

[waretrop]

Alice is now beginning to eat orchard grass. I bought the stuff from the pet stores and lots of other stuff. I soaked it and boiled it and served it as bedding. Nothing worked. I got a like on a certified organic farm that has a special dryer for all his grasses. He let me visit. He probably thought I was FAR OUT… with Alice the Tortoise…. Noticed the smirk on his face….

Well, after months of trying everything to get Alice on any kind of grass this has worked….It’s grass that is still pliable when dried…. The farmer is on vacation at the moment for me to get the details but when he gets home I will ask him what he does to get the texture and dryness of his orchard grass. Alice has eaten 3 large trays full after they have soaked in very heated water… Eventually …. I will let it soak less and less.

I haven’t fed Alice anything except orchard grass for 3 days now. Tomorrow I will add cactus pads and maybe 2 dandelion leaves….but that’s all.

I am soooo pleased that I finally found out how to get her to eat 80 o/o grasses and 20 o/o other things….

 

[waretrop]

I was hoping someone would notice this post and coment on me soaking the it orchard grass. Seems to be one step closer to normal grass. Hopefully, she doesn't get loose stools over it. I should know today or tomorrow. I really am please she is eating this grass almost exclusively. Today she will get dandelion leaves for a treat.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Nice job at the old swtcheroo! I'm in the same stage too with our Sully. Started off soaking hay, cutting into smaller size and lay over top his store bought greens. I bury Mazuri underneath. Our Sully eats his way now through the hay and greens and then his mazuri. I somtimes catch him with a mouthful of hay, chewing ilke an old mare out to pasture.

 

[Prairie Mom]

Can't imagine why she would get loose stools eating soaked orchard grass. I'm sure all will be well.
Looks like you're doing great. Keep at her!

 

[Jodie]

I soak the hay I serve, so agree stools will be fine. Good job getting her diet straightened out.

 

[Speedy-1]

Nice job at the old swtcheroo! I'm in the same stage too with our Sully. Started off soaking hay, cutting into smaller size and lay over top his store bought greens. I bury Mazuri underneath. Our Sully eats his way now through the hay and greens and then his mazuri. I somtimes catch him with a mouthful of hay, chewing ilke an old mare out to pasture.

That is what I do with Speedy , I bury his pellets under soaked hay . At first he would poke through it to get to the Mazuri , but over time he has gotten less fussy and he usually chomps it all down now . I am calling it a success !

 

[W Shaw]

Maybe you could get him some extra business if he's willing to ship I'm looking for something like that for my little Russian. He love fresh grass and weeds, but doesn't like Mazuri, and won't touch hay, so I'm more than a but stressed about his winter diet. Others might be in the same boat.

 

[waretrop]

Prairie Mom, She had loose stools when eating dandeloin leaves, mustard greens and kale. Today it was firming up, even with soaked greens... LOL That would be the same as drinking water.....

Hopefully tomorrow it will look like it did when she ate my yard grass in the summer. Thanks for the feedback and thoughts.

W.Shaw, PM me your address and I will send you some of this orchard grass. It's dried but still soft. When I soak it in hot water for just a few minutes and then let it drain out, it is like cooked spinach. My Alice loves it...

 

[W Shaw]

Prairie Mom, She had loose stools when eating dandeloin leaves, mustard greens and kale. Today it was firming up, even with soaked greens... LOL That would be the same as drinking water.....

Hopefully tomorrow it will look like it did when she ate my yard grass in the summer. Thanks for the feedback and thoughts.

W.Shaw, PM me your address and I will send you some of this orchard grass. It's dried but still soft. When I soak it in hot water for just a few minutes and then let it drain out, it is like cooked spinach. My Alice loves it...

That would be amazing. I'd expect of course to pay the cost & shipping. I'll send my address! Thanks!

 

[waretrop]

I will send you a variety of what I have to see if it works for you. waiting for your PM........

 

[W Shaw]

I will send you a variety of what I have to see if it works for you. waiting for your PM........

Trying to figure out how to PM I was at work before. Now I'm home. and can take another look.

 

[Tom]

I am soooo pleased that I finally found out how to get her to eat 80 o/o grasses and 20 o/o other things….

Where did you get the ratio of 80% grass to 20% other things for a young sulcata?

 

[Tom]

Maybe you could get him some extra business if he's willing to ship I'm looking for something like that for my little Russian. He love fresh grass and weeds, but doesn't like Mazuri, and won't touch hay, so I'm more than a but stressed about his winter diet. Others might be in the same boat.

Russians really aren't grass or grass hay eaters. Some of them will eat it sometimes, but they usually don't digest it very well.

 

[W Shaw]

Russians really aren't grass or grass hay eaters. Some of them will eat it sometimes, but they usually don't digest it very well.

There's so much conflicting stuff out there. I was feeding mine initially on greens (cale, collard, carrot tops, dandelions), and then I got into a whole lot of stuff saying that was all wrong and Russians should be treated as "goats in shells.," with grasses and timothy hay and weeds. Apparently that wasn't accurate either. I'm beginning to despair of ever finding two people with the same opinion. At the moment I'm just giving him as much variety as possible, and trying to get him used to Mazuri, so I can be sure he's getting his essentials covered.

 

[waretrop]

Tom, I don't know where I read the percentage of grasses to other things but I Googled "sulcata diet" just now and the first 3 sites I clicked on had about those percentages. I can only say when Alice ate outside in the summer her stools were full of grass and solid. I could pick it up with a tissue with no mess. Up until 3 days ago her stools were pudding most of the time. Others referred to the, dandelions leaves, kale and mustard greens as well as my soaked orchard grass, as wet. I do spin it in a salad spinner.

There are so many ideas out there on how to feed a sulcata that it's hard to see which one is correct.

 

[Tom]

There's so much conflicting stuff out there. I was feeding mine initially on greens (cale, collard, carrot tops, dandelions), and then I got into a whole lot of stuff saying that was all wrong and Russians should be treated as "goats in shells.," with grasses and timothy hay and weeds. Apparently that wasn't accurate either. I'm beginning to despair of ever finding two people with the same opinion. At the moment I'm just giving him as much variety as possible, and trying to get him used to Mazuri, so I can be sure he's getting his essentials covered.

Rather than listen to yo-yos like me espousing "internet wisdom" try to find a study showing the wild diet of russians. A few years ago someone linked a study like this to me and I took the time to look up all the scientific names of the myriad plants that were listed in order of most to least eaten by wild russian tortoises. There were no grasses at all. It was a whole bunch of leafy, flowering plants. Some of the plants are listed as toxic on our tortoise plant lists and some of them were only eaten at certain times of the year. The author listed a few theories about why they would eat certain toxic species of plants at certain times of the year, but admitted it was speculation.

My opinion above is also based on my own captive observations of decades of caring for russians. Over all those years I have seen then nibble on some grass when there was nothing better to eat and they were hungry only a handful of times. I then would see totally undigested grass in the stool later on. In the past there were times that I sprinkled some minced grass on top of grocery store greens to add fiber. I think grass is okay to use for this purpose with russians, but their system doesn't seem to be able to break it down the way a sulcata, DT, or SA leopard does.

You seem like just the kind of person to enjoy reading and learning about research on wild tortoises and their behavior. Perhaps you could make a thread asking people to link this sort of info for you. There is quite a bit of info "out there" on wild russians, and even though some of it is a bit "dry" to read, I've always found it fascinating and informative.

 

[W Shaw]

Great stuff, Tom! Thanks! You're right -- I love reading that sort of thing. I'm not put off by it being a bit dry. I've been involved with research all my life, so it's kind of my native language.

 

[GotTort]

I believe this is the article @Tom is referring to. Another member posted it in the past. The article mentions that they did not observe any Russian tortoises eat grass even though it was plentiful. The website tortoisetable.org lists most poppy family members (Papaveraceae family) as toxic although this represented the largest component of the wild diet part of the year. Large components of the diet included Koelpinia species (which are related to dandelion, chicory, endive and lettuces) and Brassicaceae (which are related to mustard, kale and turnip greens). Ceratocephalus is closely related to coreopsis species, which consist of flowering plants called tickweed. Centaurea includes thistles.
This article supports the common recommendations for captive Russian tortoise diets.

 

[Lyn W]

There is a lot of contradictory information out there but this is the best site for up to date information. So in the event of any contradiction I would always go with the advice given here.

 

[Tom]

I believe this is the article @Tom is referring to. Another member posted it in the past. The article mentions that they did not observe any Russian tortoises eat grass even though it was plentiful. The website tortoisetable.org lists most poppy family members (Papaveraceae family) as toxic although this represented the largest component of the wild diet part of the year. Large components of the diet included Koelpinia species (which are related to dandelion, chicory, endive and lettuces) and Brassicaceae (which are related to mustard, kale and turnip greens). Ceratocephalus is closely related to coreopsis species, which consist of flowering plants called tickweed. Centaurea includes thistles.
This article supports the common recommendations for captive Russian tortoise diets.

Thank you. This one of the ones I've read before. I would never have been able to find it again.