Underweight 11 year old Sulcata

Emmawilly

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I've just weighed Rodney, my 11 year old Sulcata, who joined our family in August of this year.
He is only 34 pounds in weight. (24 inches length up and over his shell.)
He had a very healthy appetite and is grazing even in very cold weather. I'm topping him up with readigrass every day and romaine, kale, spring greens twice a week.
I've read the other threads on here about various sulcata growth rates and how there is no average but Rodney appears to be way below what I would expect. His previous owner told me that he had a brother who was almost double Rodney's size, he died before I knew her. I wonder if the larger tortoise bullied Rodney and he missed out on food in the early years? She didn't soak either of them.
He is behaving normally, looks well, no parasites in his poo that are visible to me.
Do I just keep with his regular routine now of feeding and soaking and exercise and relax about his weight? Or should I be concerned and be doing something about this (if so, what?). Thank you for any responses.

IMG_20201220_093323.jpg
 

Tom

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Living as a pair and lack of hydration are leading causes of stunting. The other primary one is cold. Sounds like you've got all three.
 

Emmawilly

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Living as a pair and lack of hydration are leading causes of stunting. The other primary one is cold. Sounds like you've got all three.
Thanks Tom, I don't disagree. Now he's on his own, is being soaked and is at the right temperature, is that all I can do to try and halt the effects of his former care? Should I feed him more regularly or just keep with the routine described above. Thanks for your advice
 

Jon G.

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Given age versus the weight/size stated in the initial post, I get that this specific tortoise is likely stunted for some reason, but if density, shell formation, activity, and appetite are all good, maybe this tortoise could still be considered "healthy"?

I'm a leopard tortoise guy, so not sure about how cold tolerant sulcatas are understanding that there is some minimum temp required for digestion (others may have recommendations). My leopard tortoises are like solar collectors and can warm up very nicely even when temps are fairly cool if the sun is shining. I'm in Florida and my colony is acclimated to night time temps down to about 55 Deg F in otherwise good weather. I try to bring them in and/or make sure they stay dry in cool rainy whether (no snow in FL...).

For the benefit of new less experienced tortoise owners, If there are other concerns, as in the a tortoise becomes lethargic when temps are good or has a long-term trending weight loss over time, it would probably be a good idea to have a fecal sample analyzed for high parasite load or look for other metabolic issues. I'm sure others with more sulcata experience can/will expand on on this....

It may be best to start separate threads for these, but the following are a couple of other related thoughts/subjects...​

Maybe they are just more polite haha, but I have never personally experienced bullying/food domination stunting with leopard tortoises when enough food is provided for the group. Seems more common with sulcatas? However, I have seen a stunting thing with a group of young captive bred/raised aquatic turtles that I acquired where one of four of the same age raised together was significantly smaller than the others. Over time, perhaps because of the change in setup/environment, it caught up even though kept with the same group. In another separate case, I acquired some hatchlings of another species of aquatic turtle where after a couple of months one disappeared by digging in somewhere that I couldn't find it. Miraculously, it reappeared almost a year later and even though tiny compared to its siblings, it caught up quickly.​
I have seen comments from others indicating typical weights versus age for normal growth in sulcatas, but haven't seen anything regarding density, or maybe a correlation of typical weights versus straight carapace length. Is anyone aware of research or have empirical info on healthy tortoise density (i.e. mass/volume or indirectly mass/length for a given species) in the context of determining whether a tortoise is underweight? I guess where I am going with this is that with experience over time, one can get an intuitive sense of whether a tortoise is underweight just by picking it up (less practical with a huge tortoise), but it would be interesting to know if you could determine if a tortoise is at a healthy weight by determining its density or correlating to carapace length.​
 

Emmawilly

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161
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Plymouth
Given age versus the weight/size stated in the initial post, I get that this specific tortoise is likely stunted for some reason, but if density, shell formation, activity, and appetite are all good, maybe this tortoise could still be considered "healthy"?

I'm a leopard tortoise guy, so not sure about how cold tolerant sulcatas are understanding that there is some minimum temp required for digestion (others may have recommendations). My leopard tortoises are like solar collectors and can warm up very nicely even when temps are fairly cool if the sun is shining. I'm in Florida and my colony is acclimated to night time temps down to about 55 Deg F in otherwise good weather. I try to bring them in and/or make sure they stay dry in cool rainy whether (no snow in FL...).

For the benefit of new less experienced tortoise owners, If there are other concerns, as in the a tortoise becomes lethargic when temps are good or has a long-term trending weight loss over time, it would probably be a good idea to have a fecal sample analyzed for high parasite load or look for other metabolic issues. I'm sure others with more sulcata experience can/will expand on on this....

It may be best to start separate threads for these, but the following are a couple of other related thoughts/subjects...​

Maybe they are just more polite haha, but I have never personally experienced bullying/food domination stunting with leopard tortoises when enough food is provided for the group. Seems more common with sulcatas? However, I have seen a stunting thing with a group of young captive bred/raised aquatic turtles that I acquired where one of four of the same age raised together was significantly smaller than the others. Over time, perhaps because of the change in setup/environment, it caught up even though kept with the same group. In another separate case, I acquired some hatchlings of another species of aquatic turtle where after a couple of months one disappeared by digging in somewhere that I couldn't find it. Miraculously, it reappeared almost a year later and even though tiny compared to its siblings, it caught up quickly.​
I have seen comments from others indicating typical weights versus age for normal growth in sulcatas, but haven't seen anything regarding density, or maybe a correlation of typical weights versus straight carapace length. Is anyone aware of research or have empirical info on healthy tortoise density (i.e. mass/volume or indirectly mass/length for a given species) in the context of determining whether a tortoise is underweight? I guess where I am going with this is that with experience over time, one can get an intuitive sense of whether a tortoise is underweight just by picking it up (less practical with a huge tortoise), but it would be interesting to know if you could determine if a tortoise is at a healthy weight by determining its density or correlating to carapace length.​
Wow JonG, what an informative reply, thank you.
I did some reading this morning on this forum and there was a very mixed bag of weights for ages. I think Rodney is not where he would have been had he been given optimal care in the early years. I've just checked him and it's pitch black outside at 6pm, the outside temperature is currently 3°c (37f) and due to drop overnight. Rodney's still basking at the moment in his outside hut under the lamp which is 38°c with ambient overall temp between 26-28°c, including overnight. I check his temps throughout the day (and night when it's cold!) and I think he's finally warm enough (after educating myself via this forum!)
At 11 years old he has a few years left of growing. Maybe, he'll bulk out a bit. I don't mind whether he stays the same size or grows bigger, so long as he's healthy and happy. Regardless, I'll weigh him monthly from now on and see how he improves.
I note your point on fecal sample. If he doesn't show signs of weight increase by February, that is the next step.
Thanks once again
 
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