Tortoise Sanctuary in Mali Africa

[Former Member]

Today was a free day from work so i decided to go to the Tortoise Sanctuary.
Talked to the curator of the tortoise sanctuary in Mali Africa.
He covered a lot of different information in general.
Here is what i learned about my Sucata today.
The holes the Sucatas dig are around ten foot deep.
They tend to turn up at the end so they stay out of water if it rains.
The burrow is around 20C at the bottom which is good for the tortoise.
The tortoise stays in the hole during the hot days to keep cool.
They come out in the cooler afternoon or morning hours.
When there in there holes at night there metabolism slows down when they sleep.
They pull into there shell which helps them retain there natural heat.
He did say they do not do well outside in cold wet areas.
Pig mat heaters were used for the recovering and younger tortoises.
I forgot to ask at what temperature he sets the heaters.
All the others live in there natural habitat so artificial heat was not used.

Here is one of my observations......
It was kind of neat the way they create there own environment.
They eat the plants around the burrows to the ground.
When they poop it has water and seeds in the pile..
This causes the seeds to germinate which starts new plants.
That explained them growing in clumps around the burrow areas.
In a sense they create there own food supply cycle or ecosystem..

I thought some you would like to hear what i learned today.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving

 

[Hutsie B]

wow, thanks a lot for sharing that information. It is really interesting. Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

 

[wellington]

Very nice, thank you. Pictures would have added to yours and our learning. Next time maybe.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

 

[Former Member]

When i was in the airport i dropped my phone.
It would not turn on after it was dropped.
So no camera - i was really bummed out.
All of my customer contacts were in the phone.
The good thing was i got the day off .
With Fedex over night i will have everything i need soon..

The place is a large natural protected area.
I asked how many acres the sanctuary covered
He says from that mountain to as far as you can see in that direction
How do you equate that to acres or even miles.
It cost 150 rand converts to around 10 us dollars for a hour tour.
I gave them a $300 rand and got my own jeep and a special tour.
They took me out for a three hour jeep ride.
We even stopped for lunch at a local place.
There was a lot of places i would have liked pictures.
Mostly I wish i had pictures of the burrow area plants.
There was not very many tortoises out..
Most of the tour It was 37c - 98f while i was visiting.
So it was still a little to warm for them to be cruising around.
There was some out in the bushes and in the shaded areas.
I did not see any as big as mine at 90 lbs.
I was told there were some that were real big in burrows
The shells were over a meter but did not know any weights.

.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Yes, i agree that some pictures of their surroundings in general would be nice. Maybe if you make a return trip. Nothing earth shattering though, but I'm sure a neat experience. Is this sanctuary there in Bamako?

 

[Former Member]

I have been to Bamako
i do land/air communications for phone companies.

I have never heard of any places in that area.
That is the capital and has been growing like mad.
I guess it is around 2 million and growing
If there was any in the area i am sure they were located.

This sanctuary is located outside Burkina Faso

 

[Former Member]

I forgot to to say it is a hour and a half plane ride from Bamako
That is where i am staying. I am headed for Pretoria. tomorrow.
It is another place there is mostly asphalt and concrete.

 

[Tom]

When i was in the airport i dropped my phone.
It would not turn on after it was dropped.
So no camera - i was really bummed out.
All of my customer contacts were in the phone.
The good thing was i got the day off .
With Fedex over night i will have everything i need soon..

The place is a large natural protected area.
I asked how many acres the sanctuary covered
He says from that mountain to as far as you can see in that direction
How do you equate that to acres or even miles.
It cost 150 rand converts to around 10 us dollars for a hour tour.
I gave them a $300 rand and got my own jeep and a special tour.
They took me out for a three hour jeep ride.
We even stopped for lunch at a local place.
There was a lot of places i would have liked pictures.
Mostly I wish i had pictures of the burrow area plants.
There was not very many tortoises out..
Most of the tour It was 37c - 98f while i was visiting.
So it was still a little to warm for them to be cruising around.
There was some out in the bushes and in the shaded areas.
I did not see any as big as mine at 90 lbs.
I was told there were some that were real big in burrows
The shells were over a meter but did not know any weights.

.

I see the daytime temp above ground is 98F in late November, but what is the above ground overnight low there?

Thank you for posting this info for us.

 

[Yvonne G]

So you're saying you're sorry for arguing with Tom in the 90lb thread and that he was right and thank you?

And, @Tom - if we are to believe the guy at the sanctuary, the burrow is 68F degrees and this is healthful for the tortoises.

 

[Markw84]

So you're saying you're sorry for arguing with Tom in the 90lb thread and that he was right and thank you?

And, @Tom - if we are to believe the guy at the sanctuary, the burrow is 68F degrees and this is healthful for the tortoises.

How could a burrow be 68f when the low is 68f for a maybe an hour about sunrise and the high is 98f? Ground temps elsewhere in the world don’t work that way!

 

[Yvonne G]

How could a burrow be 68f when the low is 68f for a maybe an hour about sunrise and the high is 98f? Ground temps elsewhere in the world don’t work that way!

So YOU'RE saying maybe the story is inflated a bit to serve a purpose?

 

[Tom]

How could a burrow be 68f when the low is 68f for a maybe an hour about sunrise and the high is 98f? Ground temps elsewhere in the world don’t work that way!

I was wondering the same thing, but didn't want to be argumentative. It doesn't add up, does it? That's why I was asking politely what the overnight low is. I don't see how burrow temps could be 68 with daytime highs near 100 all year long.

In summer here nighttime lows are usually 60-65 and daytime highs are 90-110. At 4' underground my burrows all over the ranch stay a steady 79-81 degrees. Further, this matches the ground temp data from the US Geological survey that was posted here a few years back. I believe their data for my area was 79 degreesF in summer and 50F in winter at a depth of 3 or 4 meters, if I recall correctly. This precisely matches all of my underground thermometers year round, with about a 6 week transition period in Fall and late spring between the two extremes.

When my adults had a large deep burrow that was 22 feet in length and I estimate about 12-15 feet deep from the surface (Using my high school geometry there…) Summer time burrow temps at depth were mid 70s in the burrow when I shot the hose down there for some humidity, when ambient was 107 above ground.

It appears Vigil has left the forum. Sad. As I said before, his tortoise will suffer the consequences of his ignorance and stubbornness.

 

[Markw84]

So YOU'RE saying maybe the story is inflated a bit to serve a purpose?

I just compare this to the research I did over the years to figure out temperatures for my first breeding pair of sulcatas imported from Niger. I found lots of data on soil temps as it relates to agriculture. For example in Nigeria, which is south of Mali and Niger, the average soil temperature at 1m below surface in mid November is 28.5°C. Extensive studies for passive heating and cooling systems using ground loop buried about 10 ft and heat exchangers even much deeper for stable temperatures, show temperatures stabilize dramatically at just 0.5m deep. And by 3m deep, the temperature varies very little throughout the year. Studies throughout the US have shown the ground temperature below just 1m is quite stable and stays quite constant close to the average annual air temperature. In Bamako, Mali, the average yearly temperature is 33°C.

SOOOOO... Something doesn't add up!

 

[Tom]

It looks like Vigil has left the forum. He didn't seem to want pesky facts or decades of experience with this species getting in the way of housing his first sulcata too cold.

In the off chance that he is still reading, and for anyone else that might still be reading this thread, check this thread out. Here is the result of just two nights at 60 degrees: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/baytril-for-sick-sulcatas.162353/

 

[Big Charlie]

Is it possible to change your user name? Did Vigil change his name to Former Member or is that something the forum did?

 

[Yvonne G]

He asked Josh to change it for him.

 

[Bambam1989]

I bet he is still reading. For his torts sake I hope he took the advice given and it is only his pride that prevents him from admitting he was wrong. Perhaps he will create a new account with the forum and continue to learn and ask questions in incognito.