Tortoise Novice

Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
Central michigan
Well I feel like a bit of a poser as we have not gotten our tortoise yet but I joined this forum in hopes to gain all the information possible before adopting or buying a tortoise. There is so much information out there that I was a bit overwhelmed at first but now that we are a few weeks into this I am starting to feel more comfortable with what is fact vs. opinion and oh my gosh are there a lot of helpful opinions :). First I would love to get a tortoise from this forum. We looked at petco, pet smart, and even our local independent pet store has a 15 year old female for sale once she comes out of quarantine, but I don't know anything about the breeder and have become addicted to the wonderful people and advise found on this forum, I would love feel the same level of support people have reported when buying a tortoise from a well established forum member. We really want a russian and that is really the only bread we have researched. I have also searched petfinder.com and found one up for adoption about 2 hours away but the rescue has not contacted me so I am thinking that this forum may be my best bet.

Here is a bit about our set up. When I figure out how to post a picture taken with my phone I will do that.
1. Indoor
We have an elevated 2 x 4 foot cedar planter (non-treated lumber) with a pond liner inside for easy cleanup for our tortoise table. We have the 48 inch terrarium hood with a 5.0 bulb (will get a 10.0 when this one burns out, but the bulb came with this). We have a 100W ceramic infrared heat emitter and a clamp lamp that can take up to 150 watts just in case this isn't warm enough. The substrate I have is just coconut fiber (bought the bricks than mixed it with tap water, then re bought the bricks and mixed it with fish/tortoise safe water) and I am looking for some organic soil to mix in but have some questions about what type and where to find it before I mixed it. We have a 12 year old cat so we also have old screened windows that we have fit to the table for protection. We have timed plugs, thermometer with a humidity reading, cuddle bone, calcium powder, a substrate scoop and a half log hide away. I don't have a water dish (was just going to pick up a terracotta pot base) and we were going to pick up some slate for a feeding surface. I know I need more hide places but I was wondering if putting real plants they can eat in pots was a good idea, I have read here that they are kinda hard on the real stuff.

2. Outdoor
We have a 4x8 foot raised garden bed with pavers underneath to prevent digging out. It is cedar and untreated, we don't have anything in it yet, including substrate. I like to make this our weed planter and let him her graze in the summer months and do a greenhouse cover in the winter so We can still offer him/her the variety from our back yard. I have the edible plant list and have a lot already growing in my yard, but want to make sure they are all safe before I do that. Since I live in Michigan we only have a few more weeks of good weather so I wanted to get this set up as soon as possible with appropriate substrate.

QUESTIONS: So some questions I haven't found in my research
1. I am from a small agricultural town in central Michigan, we have a lot of "organic soil" that is from animal excrement (Dairy Doo..), is it ok to use this or should I just be looking for worm casings? We are starting our own worm compost but It will probably be a while before I have enough to keep up with substrate changes.

2. I love the Edible plants fact sheet on russiantortoise.net. I have butterfly bush, fennel (it does not look exactly like the picture), poppy (but don't know if it's california), domestic rose, rasberry bushes, russian sage (although only garden sage and meadow sage are listed),dandelions , and a ton of day lilies. Is it ok to feed my tortoise from these well established plants after I give them a good soak? Is russian sage o.k.or would you stick really close to what the list says. Are there different types of fennell, poppy..... that are not safe? I don't use pesticides or fertilizers in my garden beds, but have treated the lawn that is beside some of these beds, so is it safe? How can I make sure?

3. Is it o.k. to mix tap water with the substrate? My husband seems to think that the chlorine in the substrate may be an irritant, so we treated the water with the declorinator we use for our fish before mixing. Is this necessary? I know we will have to buy water from the pet store or treat it for the soaking tub and his/her dish, but just didn't know how far that went. I am assuming any declorinator that is fish safe is also tortoise safe, would that be a correct assumption?

4. Should we use the cuddle bone and calcium supplement or is it best to use one or the other?

5. Most importantly is there anyone in the area that has a Russian tortoise for me? I live about a half hour away from Michigan state university (GO SPARTANS!) and would be happy to travel a couple of hours away to pick one up. When we adopted our cat we instantly knew that he was a great fit for us and we were right, I would love to be able to do the same with a tortoise breeder in the area.

Thank you,
Carrie (the very verbose tortoise lover)
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,388
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Hi Carrie, and welcome to the Forum!

Don't worry about "verbose," I love informative posts such as yours.

The light - is that a coil-shaped bulb? If so, don't use it. Those coil-shaped compact fluorescent bulbs are known to cause eye problems for tortoises.

Besides eating treated grass, tortoises absorb toxins through their skin, so keep your tortoise away from any treated area.

I use tap water.

You can use either cuttle bone or powdered supplement. If you use the supplement, you only need a small pinch a couple times a week.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
10,878
Hello Carrie
I was raised in Saginaw Mi. It sounds like you live in Grand Rapids . Have a great tort day !ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1443105214.698582.jpg
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
Central michigan
Thanks! It's not a coil it's a long skinny tube. I had read on the forum that the coil bulbs were not good, but when your shopping and you have all the options I wasn't sure until you said something and I checked. With the grass, do you know how long the "treated area" should be out of commission? Thanks, we might be a little paranoid about the tap water, but we have had fish for forever, and then the water thing is a big deal.

Carrie
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,236
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Hello, Carrie an a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
It's great you've been doing so much research.
Be careful with clamps on your lamps. many accidents have occurred with these including burning of tortoises and even houses catching fire.
Fixed fittings are safer.
i use coconut fibre alone, just mixed with tap water, except for the earth stuck around the roots of the spider plants I use. These are great for 'shade', hidey places, fun and nibbles.
TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/tortoise_home_1.asp
is a great resource for knowing which plants are safe for your tortoise, but it does tend (probably sensibly) to err on the side of caution, in my opinion.
1) The coco coir alone should be fine. It will last almost forever as it doesn't mold and can be easily spot cleaned.
2) check the TTT for all your plants, but if there is any risk of herbicide or pesticide cross-contamination in your flower beds in the last 6 months or so, i wouldn't risk it.
3) I would say that if your tap water is safe for you to drink, it's safe for your tortoise. I normally just use tap water.
4) I leave a cuttle bone to be eaten when it is fancied by my tortoise. She doesn't often go for it, so I scrape some of it on to her food a couple of days a week. You could use the calcium supplement instead, or a mix of the two.
5) Check out our breeders and classifieds sections to see if Russians are available in your area, though many of the guys ship quite securely.
Good luck.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Well I feel like a bit of a poser as we have not gotten our tortoise yet but I joined this forum in hopes to gain all the information possible before adopting or buying a tortoise. There is so much information out there that I was a bit overwhelmed at first but now that we are a few weeks into this I am starting to feel more comfortable with what is fact vs. opinion and oh my gosh are there a lot of helpful opinions :). First I would love to get a tortoise from this forum. We looked at petco, pet smart, and even our local independent pet store has a 15 year old female for sale once she comes out of quarantine, but I don't know anything about the breeder and have become addicted to the wonderful people and advise found on this forum, I would love feel the same level of support people have reported when buying a tortoise from a well established forum member. We really want a russian and that is really the only bread we have researched. I have also searched petfinder.com and found one up for adoption about 2 hours away but the rescue has not contacted me so I am thinking that this forum may be my best bet.

Here is a bit about our set up. When I figure out how to post a picture taken with my phone I will do that.
1. Indoor
We have an elevated 2 x 4 foot cedar planter (non-treated lumber) with a pond liner inside for easy cleanup for our tortoise table. We have the 48 inch terrarium hood with a 5.0 bulb (will get a 10.0 when this one burns out, but the bulb came with this). We have a 100W ceramic infrared heat emitter and a clamp lamp that can take up to 150 watts just in case this isn't warm enough. The substrate I have is just coconut fiber (bought the bricks than mixed it with tap water, then re bought the bricks and mixed it with fish/tortoise safe water) and I am looking for some organic soil to mix in but have some questions about what type and where to find it before I mixed it. We have a 12 year old cat so we also have old screened windows that we have fit to the table for protection. We have timed plugs, thermometer with a humidity reading, cuddle bone, calcium powder, a substrate scoop and a half log hide away. I don't have a water dish (was just going to pick up a terracotta pot base) and we were going to pick up some slate for a feeding surface. I know I need more hide places but I was wondering if putting real plants they can eat in pots was a good idea, I have read here that they are kinda hard on the real stuff.

2. Outdoor
We have a 4x8 foot raised garden bed with pavers underneath to prevent digging out. It is cedar and untreated, we don't have anything in it yet, including substrate. I like to make this our weed planter and let him her graze in the summer months and do a greenhouse cover in the winter so We can still offer him/her the variety from our back yard. I have the edible plant list and have a lot already growing in my yard, but want to make sure they are all safe before I do that. Since I live in Michigan we only have a few more weeks of good weather so I wanted to get this set up as soon as possible with appropriate substrate.

QUESTIONS: So some questions I haven't found in my research
1. I am from a small agricultural town in central Michigan, we have a lot of "organic soil" that is from animal excrement (Dairy Doo..), is it ok to use this or should I just be looking for worm casings? We are starting our own worm compost but It will probably be a while before I have enough to keep up with substrate changes.

2. I love the Edible plants fact sheet on russiantortoise.net. I have butterfly bush, fennel (it does not look exactly like the picture), poppy (but don't know if it's california), domestic rose, rasberry bushes, russian sage (although only garden sage and meadow sage are listed),dandelions , and a ton of day lilies. Is it ok to feed my tortoise from these well established plants after I give them a good soak? Is russian sage o.k.or would you stick really close to what the list says. Are there different types of fennell, poppy..... that are not safe? I don't use pesticides or fertilizers in my garden beds, but have treated the lawn that is beside some of these beds, so is it safe? How can I make sure?

3. Is it o.k. to mix tap water with the substrate? My husband seems to think that the chlorine in the substrate may be an irritant, so we treated the water with the declorinator we use for our fish before mixing. Is this necessary? I know we will have to buy water from the pet store or treat it for the soaking tub and his/her dish, but just didn't know how far that went. I am assuming any declorinator that is fish safe is also tortoise safe, would that be a correct assumption?

4. Should we use the cuddle bone and calcium supplement or is it best to use one or the other?

5. Most importantly is there anyone in the area that has a Russian tortoise for me? I live about a half hour away from Michigan state university (GO SPARTANS!) and would be happy to travel a couple of hours away to pick one up. When we adopted our cat we instantly knew that he was a great fit for us and we were right, I would love to be able to do the same with a tortoise breeder in the area.

Wow. That's a lot of info. Lots of info to share and questions to answer there.

1. I would not use a cedar table indoors. Cedar gives off toxic fumes. That is why it repels insect when used in closets and chests. Outdoors there should be enough ventilation and it should be fine.
2. The 5.0 bulb will likely not "burn out" for years, but even when new, they produce almost no UV. The 10.0 regular bulbs don't do much either and must be mounted no farther than 10-12" away. This is important to know if you are depending on indoor UV for most of the year.
3. I would not use "soil" in an indoor enclosure.
4. If your tap water is safe for you to drink and bathe in, then its safe for your tortoise and needs no treatment.
5. 2x4' is fine for a hatching, but an open table will be difficult to maintain good growing conditions in. Open tables are great for older one, but you need something much larger for an adult. I recommend 4x8'.
6. Coco fiber is the best substrate for baby russians in my experience, so you are all good there.
7. Potted plants are usually safe, but anything store bought will be full of systemic pesticides that can remain toxic for 12 months. Planted plants will be eaten or trampled.

Now your questions:
1. I would not use man made "soil" as substrate for a tortoise. Outside I would use the native dirt in your area.
2. I don't know about those plants and I don't use any of them. Read this for a list of plants to feed out. Just skip all the info about sulcatas and grass, and just skip to the plant list: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
3. Already addressed the tap water issue. I've been using tap water for turtles and tortoises since 1979. Its never been a problem.
4. Best to use a tiny pinch of calcium powder twice a week for growing babies and females. Its good to also leave a cuttlebone around, so they can self-supplement.
5. I have russians for sale. Send me a private message (conversation).

Here is more info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,236
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Send Tom a PM.
He is a reliable and knowledgeable, experienced breeder who is well-respected on here, though I've not bought from him myself.
In your position i'd bite his hand off while he's got some available.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
Central michigan
Wow. That's a lot of info. Lots of info to share and questions to answer there.

1. I would not use a cedar table indoors. Cedar gives off toxic fumes. That is why it repels insect when used in closets and chests. Outdoors there should be enough ventilation and it should be fine.
2. The 5.0 bulb will likely not "burn out" for years, but even when new, they produce almost no UV. The 10.0 regular bulbs don't do much either and must be mounted no farther than 10-12" away. This is important to know if you are depending on indoor UV for most of the year.
3. I would not use "soil" in an indoor enclosure.
4. If your tap water is safe for you to drink and bathe in, then its safe for your tortoise and needs no treatment.
5. 2x4' is fine for a hatching, but an open table will be difficult to maintain good growing conditions in. Open tables are great for older one, but you need something much larger for an adult. I recommend 4x8'.
6. Coco fiber is the best substrate for baby russians in my experience, so you are all good there.
7. Potted plants are usually safe, but anything store bought will be full of systemic pesticides that can remain toxic for 12 months. Planted plants will be eaten or trampled.

Now your questions:
1. I would not use man made "soil" as substrate for a tortoise. Outside I would use the native dirt in your area.
2. I don't know about those plants and I don't use any of them. Read this for a list of plants to feed out. Just skip all the info about sulcatas and grass, and just skip to the plant list: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
3. Already addressed the tap water issue. I've been using tap water for turtles and tortoises since 1979. Its never been a problem.
4. Best to use a tiny pinch of calcium powder twice a week for growing babies and females. Its good to also leave a cuttlebone around, so they can self-supplement.
5. I have russians for sale. Send me a private message (conversation).

Here is more info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes

Thank you so much!!!! I will reevaluate my indoor setup we have a pond liner that we can easily switch to. I knew it would take a while for the 5.0 to burn out but wasn't aware that it did not give off the uv needed. That's what I bought it for since we live in a cold climate. I'll look through the links. Thank you for all of the info. It is so nice to get it now when I don't have to stress a little guy out by changing it to soon later. Thank you again! I'd rather be on the safe side with plants so thanks for the additional resources. There is so much to go through!
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,236
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
Such a newbie thing to ask but how do I message a specific member?
Go up to'' inbox ''at the top of the page and it should bring up 'Converstions'.
Go down to 'Start a New Conversation ' and click.
It will bring up the page.
enter the name of the member you wish to speak with using the @sign first, so for example @Tom , (sorry, Tom).
Then put a title and continue into the message.
When finished, click on 'Start Conversation' at the bottom.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
5
Location (City and/or State)
Central michigan
Go up to'' inbox ''at the top of the page and it should bring up 'Converstions'.
Go down to 'Start a New Conversation ' and click.
It will bring up the page.
enter the name of the member you wish to speak with using the @sign first, so for example @Tom , (sorry, Tom).
Then put a title and continue into the message.
When finished, click on 'Start Conversation' at the bottom.
Got it just noticed the ( conversation) in parenthesis in toms post :). I'll get it yet.
 

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