Tortoise in Hibernation appears to be gaining weight

[Rodica@NZ]

HI
I have my Herman Tortoise outdoors in a protected enclosure hibernating. The temps here in Wellington NZ have been around 13 - 18 C during the day and at night they drop to around 10-13. My tortoise burrowed down exactly two weeks ago. Today I did a check on him, got him out of the soil put him on the scale and (and this was the same reading on my scale as a week ago). His weight has gone from 270 grams to 280 grams. Is this okay? and also why would he be putting on weight instead of dropping weight while hibernating. He does not appear to have moved from the place he started hibernating. This is his second year of hibernating outdoors, his breeder hibernated him in the past, and he was fine from start to finish. He appeared healthy and everything was going well before the hibernation too place. I touched his back leg he hardly moved it, as he seems to be in a very deep sleep. He seemed to have slightly opened his eyes when I was touching his legs. When I lifted him out other than him being cold, his limbs were hanging out and he was not in his shell. I am seriously considering getting him inside as I worry about him. He is in a very dry sheltered part of his enclosure, as I covered his hutch with a tarp, so although we have had lots of rain lately he is not wet and the part where he is is dry. Any advice is really appreciated. thanks

 

[RedFire]

I don't have any hibernation experience and I am sorry. But I wanna learn about hermanns hibernation cause I have two. My hermanns haven't do that due to my less of experience. Could you tell me what's the temperature and humidity when yours in hibernation and the best have average and lowest data.

 

[JoesMum]

HI
I have my Herman Tortoise outdoors in a protected enclosure hibernating. The temps here in Wellington NZ have been around 13 - 18 C during the day and at night they drop to around 10-13. My tortoise burrowed down exactly two weeks ago. Today I did a check on him, got him out of the soil put him on the scale and (and this was the same reading on my scale as a week ago). His weight has gone from 270 grams to 280 grams. Is this okay? and also why would he be putting on weight instead of dropping weight while hibernating. He does not appear to have moved from the place he started hibernating. This is his second year of hibernating outdoors, his breeder hibernated him in the past, and he was fine from start to finish. He appeared healthy and everything was going well before the hibernation too place. I touched his back leg he hardly moved it, as he seems to be in a very deep sleep. He seemed to have slightly opened his eyes when I was touching his legs. When I lifted him out other than him being cold, his limbs were hanging out and he was not in his shell. I am seriously considering getting him inside as I worry about him. He is in a very dry sheltered part of his enclosure, as I covered his hutch with a tarp, so although we have had lots of rain lately he is not wet and the part where he is is dry. Any advice is really appreciated. thanks

I have considerable experience of hibernation. Your tort needs a steady 5C by day and night to hibernate with temperatures not exceeding 10C and not going below 2C so it doesn't freeze.

The temperatures you describe are warm enough for activity. Your tort is NOT hibernating. It is simply burying in the ground. In fact my tort is romping round outside in pretty similar temperatures over here in the UK at the moment.

Unless there's sun, your tort is not getting enough heat to bask and digest the food he is undoubtedly finding and eating.

Please read this thread as you will find it helpful
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

And please come back to me with any questions.

 

[JoesMum]

Russians naturally spend a lot of time underground, it's a way to cope with the temperature extremes in their climate.

You must continue to feed, hydrate your tort and ensure it can bask until temperatures drop.

Having looked at the climate in Wellington online, it is likely that actual hibernation is going to be quite short and, if you have a warm winter, may not happen naturally at all.

At the size of your tort, it shouldn't be allowed to hibernate for very long in any case. A month at most.

 

[Rodica@NZ]

I have considerable experience of hibernation. Your tort needs a steady 5C by day and night to hibernate with temperatures not exceeding 10C and not going below 2C so it doesn't freeze.

The temperatures you describe are warm enough for activity. Your tort is NOT hibernating. It is simply burying in the ground. In fact my tort is romping round outside in pretty similar temperatures over here in the UK at the moment.

Unless there's sun, your tort is not getting enough heat to bask and digest the food he is undoubtedly finding and eating.

Please read this thread as you will find it helpful
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

And please come back to me with any questions.

Hi again,

So he does actually have a greenhouse that is situated at the other end of the enclosure that is dry and I gather heats up a bit more. Should I take him out of the hole he's in (and it's not that deep) and put him in there? I really do not think he has moved the whole two weeks as I put some leaves over him and all looks in place and nothing looks disturbed. I have a few things in the enclosure that he could eat, but I am not sure he would eat from the plants I put in his enclosure. I just cannot understand how he's put on 10 gras in two weeks or being in one place.

 

[JoesMum]

Tortoises do grow when they hibernate. Joe always came put with clear growth rings when he is younger.

However, your tort is not hibernating and has potentially gone without food and water for two weeks now.

Read the link I gave you, get yourself an accurate thermometer, and do what you can to keep him active until temperatures are at a level where he can hibernate.

 

[WithLisa]

It's totally normal for them to gain weight while hibernating, they are taking up moisture from the soil. That's why I don't weigh my torts, it's just a pointless disturbance for them.
The temperature sounds fine to me, high enough to digest all remaining food and wind down slowly. But it should drop in the next 1-2 weeks or so. What does the weather forecast say?

 

[Rodica@NZ]

Tortoises do grow when they hibernate. Joe always came put with clear growth rings when he is younger.

However, your tort is not hibernating and has potentially gone without food and water for two weeks now.

Read the link I gave you, get yourself an accurate thermometer, and do what you can to keep him active until temperatures are at a level where he can hibernate.

Okay thanks, I would really like to bring him inside from this point onwards, maybe

Tortoises do grow when they hibernate. Joe always came put with clear growth rings when he is younger.

However, your tort is not hibernating and has potentially gone without food and water for two weeks now.

Read the link I gave you, get yourself an accurate thermometer, and do what you can to keep him active until temperatures are at a level where he can hibernate.

I think I would like to bring him indoors to his enclosure should I just warm him up and bathe him and start putting food for him indoors until it's colder outdoors. I cannot do the dog house with a heating light outdoors, although I do have that exact same doghouse for him.

 

[TortoiseWarrior]

I have considerable experience of hibernation. Your tort needs a steady 5C by day and night to hibernate with temperatures not exceeding 10C and not going below 2C so it doesn't freeze.

The temperatures you describe are warm enough for activity. Your tort is NOT hibernating. It is simply burying in the ground. In fact my tort is romping round outside in pretty similar temperatures over here in the UK at the moment.

Unless there's sun, your tort is not getting enough heat to bask and digest the food he is undoubtedly finding and eating.

Please read this thread as you will find it helpful
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/outdoor-accommodation-in-a-colder-uk-climate.140866/

And please come back to me with any questions.

Tortoises do grow when they hibernate. Joe always came put with clear growth rings when he is younger.

However, your tort is not hibernating and has potentially gone without food and water for two weeks now.

Read the link I gave you, get yourself an accurate thermometer, and do what you can to keep him active until temperatures are at a level where he can hibernate.

Good advice ☺

 

[JoesMum]

It's perfectly OK to over-winter your tort in an indoor enclosure. Many keepers do this. They don't have to hibernate even if the weather gets cold enough.

Obviously, you will need to set up a proper indoor enclosure with a basking lamp and enough space (1.5 x 2.2 metres)

If he is able to get outside several times a week throughout for an hour or so there is no need for a UVB lamp.

Your tort is small and will cool down rapidly. Your greenhouse provides a lovely, potentially warm basking place. Just remember that he must leave it from time to time to get UVB.

 

[JoesMum]

I have just been on Accuweather to see what the prognosis is for your weather.

I use this site to help me decide when Joe will be ready to hibernate.

The weather need to be consistently below 10C for a tort to hibernate outdoors... and according to Accuweather that's not likely to happen before July in Wellington. Your weather is changeable, but there's enough sun for you to manage his activity. He shouldn't be allowed to go dormant this early.

You are looking at taking steps similar to those I have used - get that greenhouse into use, put a patch of blue slate chips in there - to ensure your tort stays active enough to feed and drink until he hibernates, or you need him to spend more time indoors with a proper enclosure and basking lamp.

To get proper and safe hibernation, I think you will have to use the fridge method I think, but not yet!

There are various articles available on the internet and even on youtube none of which I can answer for as I have never used fridge hibernation myself ( I double-box Joe)

 

[TortoiseWarrior]

Priceless. Just you can't go wrong here, and I like it.

I have just been on Accuweather to see what the prognosis is for your weather.

I use this site to help me decide when Joe will be ready to hibernate.

The weather need to be consistently below 10C for a tort to hibernate outdoors... and according to Accuweather that's not likely to happen before July in Wellington. Your weather is changeable, but there's enough sun for you to manage his activity. He shouldn't be allowed to go dormant this early.

You are looking at taking steps similar to those I have used - get that greenhouse into use, put a patch of blue slate chips in there - to ensure your tort stays active enough to feed and drink until he hibernates, or you need him to spend more time indoors with a proper enclosure and basking lamp.

To get proper and safe hibernation, I think you will have to use the fridge method I think, but not yet!

There are various articles available on the internet and even on youtube none of which I can answer for as I have never used fridge hibernation myself ( I double-box Joe)

 

[JoesMum]

I've also been on the hunt for fridge hibernating TFO members

@biochemnerd808 created a blog post about it http://tortaddiction.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/prepping-russian-tortoises-for.html

and I believe @Jacqui does it too

 

[Jacqui]

The fridge method works well, wether you use the one in use for humans or as special one. Depending on how many animals, space, human thoughts on tortoises being in a human food location and such. Easy to check on the animal and fresh air supply from door opening are two nice results.

 

[Loohan]

Aha. I was wondering. I hibernated my boxie, who was about 1.5 years old, for the first time last winter, for less than 8 weeks, in the FRIDGE. He really seemed to want it and benefit from it.
I weighed him after 2 weeks (after letting him come up to room temp a while and dry out good) and he had gained 1/10 gram. (Then soaked him.)

Then at the end of brumation, i weighed him again, and he had gained another 0.6 g.

So he started at 31.6 and gained a total of 0.7 g.

 

[DPtortiose]

Agreed it's rather simple to hibernate your tortoise in a fridge. I set the temp to 5 degrees Celsius and keep them in tupperware containers with a sand/soil mix. I prefer to have a good few inches of soil in the container so the animals are still able to burrow down to their preferred humidity. This might be more difficult based on the size of your fridge, container or tortoise. If your unable to add soil cover them up with leaves. I tend to leave a bit of sphagnum moss in as well, that is slightly moist. But only in a corner so the animal can pick where it digs down. This mix usually will keep a decent humidity throughout hibernation. I tend to keep a glass with water in the fridge as well to keep air humidity up a bit. If you're unsure about the humidity, weight your tortoises. If they are rapidly losing weight it's too dry.

You could also read this guide here.

I've hear multiple people claim hibernation is not necessary. Over here it's generally advised to always hibernate your tortoise every year (as long as it is healthy), so I'm curious what scientific evidence shows that it is optional.

 

[JoesMum]

We have always hibernated too. The one year we couldn't, due to Joe's testosterone-related weight problem, it was very stressful for tort and humans alike.

I would be the last to say people have to do it though. So many people seem to successfully over winter indoors, but I guess their torts are smaller and less free-range than Joe.

 

[Loohan]

Agreed it's rather simple to hibernate your tortoise in a fridge. I set the temp to 5 degrees Celsius and keep them in tupperware containers with a sand/soil mix. I prefer to have a good few inches of soil in the container so the animals are still able to burrow down to their preferred humidity. This might be more difficult based on the size of your fridge, container or tortoise. If your unable to add soil cover them up with leaves. I tend to leave a bit of sphagnum moss in as well, that is slightly moist. But only in a corner so the animal can pick where it digs down. This mix usually will keep a decent humidity throughout hibernation. I tend to keep a glass with water in the fridge as well to keep air humidity up a bit. If you're unsure about the humidity, weight your tortoises. If they are rapidly losing weight it's too dry.

You could also read this guide here.

I've hear multiple people claim hibernation is not necessary. Over here it's generally advised to always hibernate your tortoise every year (as long as it is healthy), so I'm curious what scientific evidence shows that it is optional.

I just put him in a plastic container with holes drilled in the top, with fairly damp coconut coir. I didn't want him to be too bothered by the fridge light, since i was using my food fridge. Modern fridges have such intense lights that i removed one of the 2 bulbs when i first got it and it is still intense. So i put a mylar bag around his box, with the open end away from the light and also the end of the box with the holes was toward the end of the bag.

One thing i did not like is that i felt i had to put him in the door compartment, because it was a couple degrees warmer. (I did turn up the temp control a notch.)
So he would be subject to movement every time i opened or closed the door. Luckily i live alone and usually was conscious of him when i opened the fridge.

He was doing so well in there that i would have left him longer, except for the concern that i was leaving to visit my mom for a month and there was always a slight chance that a winter storm would knock out electricity in my rural area, and the turtle could freeze to death by the time they got the juice back on.

But i would say, if your healthy tort is always gravitating toward the coldest spots in the habitat, snoozing all the time and refusing to eat, he knows something. Once i took him back out, after a few days his appetite came on real strong and he never tried to go back into brumation. He seemed fine and happy.

 

[Rodica@NZ]

I have just been on Accuweather to see what the prognosis is for your weather.

I use this site to help me decide when Joe will be ready to hibernate.

The weather need to be consistently below 10C for a tort to hibernate outdoors... and according to Accuweather that's not likely to happen before July in Wellington. Your weather is changeable, but there's enough sun for you to manage his activity. He shouldn't be allowed to go dormant this early.

You are looking at taking steps similar to those I have used - get that greenhouse into use, put a patch of blue slate chips in there - to ensure your tort stays active enough to feed and drink until he hibernates, or you need him to spend more time indoors with a proper enclosure and basking lamp.

To get proper and safe hibernation, I think you will have to use the fridge method I think, but not yet!

There are various articles available on the internet and even on youtube none of which I can answer for as I have never used fridge hibernation myself ( I double-box Joe)

Hi
Thank you so much for your help, I have a vet here that says he can treat reptiles, but my Herman tortoise was the first one he had ever seen. He couldn't help me with information on hibernation, I did however make an appointment for him to check Florin (that's my tortoise's name) out before attempting to hibernate and I seem to be telling him information instead of him informing me. He had referred me to another vet located in Auckland and via email that vet told me that I have to hibernate my tortoise as he had seen other tortoises in Europe do very well after hibernating. So for their health it was essential. I was not aware that he was not in an ideal environment since the temperatures here are currently not low enough. I recently spoke with the breeder I got Florin from and was told that all but one of his tortoises have "gone down" and he is experiencing similar temperatures.

Anyway, I have now bought Florin indoors, and first I let him sit in his enclosure with the UV light and basking lamp on. Which is not hot enough so I'll need to get a 100 watt to get the temp to 32-35. Do I need to leave heat for him on during the night time? He is 2 years old. I positioned him in the middle of the enclosure and after a while I gave him a bath. He was so covered in soil and it took a while for him to come round. Now he is walking around his enclosure and back to normal, he's not eaten yet but I have left his food there. I am so happy to see him and I am so relieved that he is well. I have always felt uneasy about using a fridge to hibernate him but I know that outdoors weather can be unreliable and it was a bit hard to protect him from the rain and wind we get, we get stormy weather quite often at the moment. If I wait for a while and start the procedure again for him to hibernate properly and if I use the fridge method how should I start looking at doing that towards July? I also weighed him and he is actually 268 grams not the 280 I got weighing him outside. I wonder if the extra weight was all of the soil that was covering him. So from 270 he'd gone to 268 in two weeks.

 

[Rodica@NZ]

Hi
Thank you so much for your help, I have a vet here that says he can treat reptiles, but my Herman tortoise was the first one he had ever seen. He couldn't help me with information on hibernation, I did however make an appointment for him to check Florin (that's my tortoise's name) out before attempting to hibernate and I seem to be telling him information instead of him informing me. He had referred me to another vet located in Auckland and via email that vet told me that I have to hibernate my tortoise as he had seen other tortoises in Europe do very well after hibernating. So for their health it was essential. I was not aware that he was not in an ideal environment since the temperatures here are currently not low enough. I recently spoke with the breeder I got Florin from and was told that all but one of his tortoises have "gone down" and he is experiencing similar temperatures.

Anyway, I have now bought Florin indoors, and first I let him sit in his enclosure with the UV light and basking lamp on. Which is not hot enough so I'll need to get a 100 watt to get the temp to 32-35. Do I need to leave heat for him on during the night time? He is 2 years old. I positioned him in the middle of the enclosure and after a while I gave him a bath. He was so covered in soil and it took a while for him to come round. Now he is walking around his enclosure and back to normal, he's not eaten yet but I have left his food there. I am so happy to see him and I am so relieved that he is well. I have always felt uneasy about using a fridge to hibernate him but I know that outdoors weather can be unreliable and it was a bit hard to protect him from the rain and wind we get, we get stormy weather quite often at the moment. If I wait for a while and start the procedure again for him to hibernate properly and if I use the fridge method how should I start looking at doing that towards July? I also weighed him and he is actually 268 grams not the 280 I got weighing him outside. I wonder if the extra weight was all of the soil that was covering him. So from 270 he'd gone to 268 in two weeks.

He's just eating now!!!! Yeah!