Tortoise eyes (new owner)

Newowner1

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Hi,
I bought my Hermann yesterday off a friend (genuine person and my concerns are more about lack of understanding then their character).
I’m aware it will take 24 hours or more for him to settle into new surroundings but I have concerns about his eyes (see attached picture)
He is usually fed on weeds and kale and a variation of lettuce (he hasn’t eaten with me yet as I just got him last night). He is in a viv which i plan on changing to a tortoise table this month, he has a uv strip bulb and separate area with a basking lamp (32-35 degrees in the basking spot).
Of course I have contacted local vets for an appointment so he will get help if needs be, just wondering if I should be concerned or should I give him a bit time to settle first?

2FEF3249-47D1-4B04-8B23-319A9E13BC21.jpeg
 

Newowner1

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I should also say, I bathed him and he done a big wee and ooo which was as it should be and appeared healthy.
 

KarenSoCal

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Hi, and welcome to TFO!

Your tortoise is still a baby, and should be put into a closed chamber instead of a table. What are you currently using? Size? He needs to be enclosed so you can maintain the proper temps and humidity that he requires.

You said UVB strip bulb. To verify...is it like a fluorescent tube? Or is it coiled or compact? Does it screw into a regular light socket? I ask because some UVB lights burn the tortoise's eyes and should never be used. If you are using one that screws in, turn it off immediately and get rid of it. If it is a fluorescent tube, you're good.

It can take a week or more to settle in to his new home.

Here is our care sheet for Hermanns. Read it, and come back with questions. We're happy to explain why we say the things we do.


 

Newowner1

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It’s the flurocent tube. He’s in a viv at the minute, 3-4ft perhaps?
He’s just ate some kale and has drank too. Just concerned regarding his eyes, I was thinking of changing his substrate to organic top soil so he can burrow to regulate temperature?
 

KarenSoCal

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Topsoil is made by grinding up any greenery that can be found. The problem is that you have no way of knowing what that greenery was. It could be toxic plants.

When you read the care sheet you'll see that we recommend either coco coir, orchid (fir) bark, or cypress mulch, or a combination of them. Torts can dig in them, they are easier to clean, and not so messy.

He needs for you to regulate his enclosure temps. Burrowing doesn't get that done. If your room is 70°F, he can't raise his own temp to 80°F, which is minimum temp for babies.

His eyes are a concern. What is the substrate that he is currently on? Does he open them at all? Did your friend say how long they've been like this? It may take a while, but we'll figure out what's wrong.

I'll call for help.. @Yvonne G ? Can you help with the eyes? It is not the UVB light that's causing it.
 

Maggie3fan

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It could take him a few weeks to settle in. Soak him a couple of times a day in warm water, follow the instructions for Russian Tortoises, and I'd add some Gerber strained carrots to the soaking water for Vit A
 

Newowner1

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Thank you for all the advice, since getting him I have bathed his eyes twice a day with warm water and a cotton swab, I’m going to replace his bedding and then just for my peace of mind I will be replacing his uv strip light to ensure it’s as effective as it should be.
 

Yvonne G

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His eyes should not be closed all the time. That's a sign that something's wrong.
 

Newowner1

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Just an update, I can see him blinking and it appears he has had poorly eyes, have been bathing the eyes twice a day and they are slowly getting better.
he’s been a lot more lively and has taken himself to his water bowl, has ate and seems a lot happier after only two days, will give a bit longer before I contact a vet as his urates and poop also look fine!
 

Tom

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Just an update, I can see him blinking and it appears he has had poorly eyes, have been bathing the eyes twice a day and they are slowly getting better.
he’s been a lot more lively and has taken himself to his water bowl, has ate and seems a lot happier after only two days, will give a bit longer before I contact a vet as his urates and poop also look fine!
You should be soaking the whole tortoise daily, not just the eyes.

Eyes are a window to the soul... Eye problems are a good indicator that something is off. We should try to figure it out. Some possibilities:
  • Too much or not enough UV. Need a meter to judge this, but what type of UV tube and what mounting distance from the tortoise?
  • What type of substrate? Is it damp? Dry and dusty?
  • What is the over night low temp and are you providing any night heat? This is sort of a trick question as Russian tortoises don't usually need night heat unless you live inside a refrigerator, which some of our UK members seem to...
  • Did you catch that you have a Russian tortoise and not a hermanni?
  • Be aware that there is no semester on tortoise care in vet school and most vets know little or nothing about tortoise care. Most of them read all the same old wrong info that all of us have been exposed to. Many of them do more harm than good, or no good at all.
  • I'd like my basing area to be just a little warmer. 36-37 is best. These guys come from a very hot part of the world. Cool nights are good, but warm days are needed too.
  • Eye problems can also be cause by poor nutrition and incorrect diet. What has this tortoise been eating? Is it all grocery store greens? Any supplements?
 

Newowner1

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You should be soaking the whole tortoise daily, not just the eyes.

Eyes are a window to the soul... Eye problems are a good indicator that something is off. We should try to figure it out. Some possibilities:
  • Too much or not enough UV. Need a meter to judge this, but what type of UV tube and what mounting distance from the tortoise?
  • What type of substrate? Is it damp? Dry and dusty?
  • What is the over night low temp and are you providing any night heat? This is sort of a trick question as Russian tortoises don't usually need night heat unless you live inside a refrigerator, which some of our UK members seem to...
  • Did you catch that you have a Russian tortoise and not a hermanni?
  • Be aware that there is no semester on tortoise care in vet school and most vets know little or nothing about tortoise care. Most of them read all the same old wrong info that all of us have been exposed to. Many of them do more harm than good, or no good at all.
  • I'd like my basing area to be just a little warmer. 36-37 is best. These guys come from a very hot part of the world. Cool nights are good, but warm days are needed too.
  • Eye problems can also be cause by poor nutrition and incorrect diet. What has this tortoise been eating? Is it all grocery store greens? Any supplements?
I have been bathing him daily since I got him, and doing his eyes 2-3 times a day. Yes I did see that, I took her word that it was Hermann but from some of the information I feel she was told a lot of wrong information from the reptile shop.
I have him on weeds from the garden (checked with tortoise table app) and some kale so far, I have the calcium powder and nutribol to put on his food.
Uvb strip light is correctly positioned and he is getting that all day to create a day atmosphere, haven’t had night heat as of yet as temperatures have been high here but I also have his heat lamp on a habistat with a sensor in his tank.

I have ordered a different substrate (organic soil and I’m going to mix with coco coir) but he is currently on a pellet like bedding which I was thinking could have caused poorly eyes.
like I said I only got him Wednesday night so ordered what I can and it should be here within a day or 2.
Ceramic basking lamp and I’ve had that spot around 32-33, should I turn it up?
 

Tom

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I have been bathing him daily since I got him, and doing his eyes 2-3 times a day. Yes I did see that, I took her word that it was Hermann but from some of the information I feel she was told a lot of wrong information from the reptile shop.
I have him on weeds from the garden (checked with tortoise table app) and some kale so far, I have the calcium powder and nutribol to put on his food.
Uvb strip light is correctly positioned and he is getting that all day to create a day atmosphere, haven’t had night heat as of yet as temperatures have been high here but I also have his heat lamp on a habistat with a sensor in his tank.

I have ordered a different substrate (organic soil and I’m going to mix with coco coir) but he is currently on a pellet like bedding which I was thinking could have caused poorly eyes.
like I said I only got him Wednesday night so ordered what I can and it should be here within a day or 2.
Ceramic basking lamp and I’ve had that spot around 32-33, should I turn it up?
You've got some misconceptions going there.

CHEs are for ambient heat maintenance. That should be on a thermostat to maintain a minimum temperature in the enclosure if needed. Usually not needed for Testudo species, unless the room is exceptionally cold.

If you don't have a UV meter, there is no way to know if your strip light is positioned correctly.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them.
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
  3. Light. I use florescent tubes or LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height.
I would not use soil as substrate for a tortoise. There is no way to know what it is composed of and it could be something toxic.

The dry pellets could be causing eye irritation, and so could the lack of humidity. That would be my first guess.
 

Newowner1

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You've got some misconceptions going there.

CHEs are for ambient heat maintenance. That should be on a thermostat to maintain a minimum temperature in the enclosure if needed. Usually not needed for Testudo species, unless the room is exceptionally cold.

If you don't have a UV meter, there is no way to know if your strip light is positioned correctly.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them.
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
  3. Light. I use florescent tubes or LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height.
I would not use soil as substrate for a tortoise. There is no way to know what it is composed of and it could be something toxic.

The dry pellets could be causing eye irritation, and so could the lack of humidity. That would be my first guess.
I’m confused as 90 percent of recommendations for substrate that I’ve seen has been organic top soil, what would you be using instead?
 

Tom

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I’m confused as 90 percent of recommendations for substrate that I’ve seen has been organic top soil, what would you be using instead?
Back in post number three of this thread a care sheet was linked for you. It explains the best substrate options.

Store bought "soil", aka "topsoil" or "sterilized soil", is made form composted yard waste. There is no way to know what is in it. It IS recommend all over the internet and in books too. Even some of the old timers here on the forum still recommend it and use it. None of that makes it safe, and each one of them is one bad batch away from dead tortoises, and then they will say the same thing I'm saying. I got my one bad batch a few years ago, and now I try to warn people so they don't have to learn the hard way after a tortoise dies.

Soil is also very messy and turns to mud when wet. It also usually has additives like perlite, fertilizers, or chemicals, that can be deadly. Soil is great for growing plants. Its not great as a tortoise substrate.
 

Newowner1

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Thanks for all the advice here, all taken on board and lots of things coming in the post to correct some things that I’ve obviously been misinformed about.
just an update, eyes are so much better! Really enjoying his calcium sprinkled weeds from the garden and he’s been happy as anything!
 

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Newowner1

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Switched to orchid bark per recommendations and he seems much happier in it, it smells better and seems so much easier to dig!
 

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