Tort was "free to great home" SHOULD’VE been "TERRIBLE OWNERS. NEEDS RESCUING" PICS

[dmmj]

as the carertaker of 3 rescued russians I have seen some bad damage to some shells, but those spots on his/her shell is pretty bad, could be from his previous home could be animal abuse. dog and racoons come to mind. living in california I am able to grow all my food for my torts, I feed mine a wide variety of leaves and flowers. If he is used to veggie mix he may have just decided to eat that and nothing else start mixing in other good turtle food for him so he can get used to it. the foods I use for mine are hibiscus flowers(they do not like the leaves for some reason) grape leaves, radish tops not the vegetable just the tops. dandelions when I can find them lol , artichoke leaves, some nice cactus pieces, and lots lots more. I am currently trying to find a native california foothill lotus that is a wildgrowing weed that desert tortoises like. They are plentiful in san diego so I may go out ther one day and see if I can find some. anyways if you have any questions there ar elots of knowledgeable peopel here who can answer them, BTW I was saddened to ee the poor guys living condition. Did they have a light for him? I did not see one but you never know. anyways kudos for rescuing him and here is to many many good years for him. they are resilient little guys and can bounce back from some pretty harsh conditions.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I was just trying to say that although those are great greens, feeding them all together isn't the best idea. I know with too much oxalic acid it can bind up to all the calcium, outweighing the benefits. It's difficult to know what that amount will be...thus not feeding those all together is recommended.

We're talking about a russian tortoise not a Sulcata here as well. Different dietary requirements even between tortoise species.

 

[nrfitchett4]

Ahem. Look at your response. Swearing isn't necessary for bad language. I also said it SEEMED like you were. A simple "no, I am not trying to start anything" would have sufficed, but you took that and went on the attack instead.

There is no spinach in the Organic Spring Mix I buy. You can chose brands that do not have in it the mix.

If you fed your tortoise on an iguana diet, you would cause it harm. Too much sugar.

considering you've also pm'd me about another member, I do take offense. All I said was that lettuce is not a good tortoise staple. Lettuce is the main ingredient in spring mix. How hard is that to understand.
I understand that in the winter you have to make due with what is a available. After much research I am going to try the mazuri mixed with greens and ground up hay and see what happens till shelly gets big enough to run the back yard.
my iguana diet has very little sugar. Collards or mustards is the main staple with squash green beans and parsnip. very little mango or papaya. I never said I would feed my tort that. Just that the dietary requirements are more similar than you think.

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I was just trying to say that although those are great greens, feeding them all together isn't the best idea. I know with too much oxalic acid it can bind up to all the calcium, outweighing the benefits. It's difficult to know what that amount will be...thus not feeding those all together is recommended.

We're talking about a russian tortoise not a Sulcata here as well. Different dietary requirements even between tortoise species.

I apologize. I was not trying to hijack the thread.

 

[galvinkaos]

There is no spinach in the Organic Spring Mix I buy. You can chose brands that do not have in it the mix.

Just to let you know meg, I bought a "prepackage organic spring mix" which did not have spinach in the ingredients list but I found spinach in it. So look close at the leaves. I work at some of the food processing plants and mistakes can happen.

Dawna

 

[Meg90]

Thanks Dawna! I always keep an eye out, and I work at a restaurant where we use SM and spinach (seperatley) so i can spot the difference a mile off!
Just for fun, I googled my brand of springmix, and a really great website came up! The two links provided show a picture of every lettuce in the mix. I buy alternating for freshness (as in, the date on the package--which ever one is newer) mixed baby greens, and fresh herb salad.

In mixed baby greens there is: Arugula, Frisee, Green Chard, Green Oak, Green Romaine, Lollo Rosa, Mizuna, Radichio, Red Chard, Red Oak, Red Romaine and Tango.

In fresh herb salad there is: Arugula, Cilantro, Dill Frisee, Green Chard, Green Oak, Green Romaine, Lollo Rosa, Mizuna, Parsley, Radicchio, Red Chard, Red Oak, Red Romaine and Tango.

Mixed Baby Greens

Fresh Herb Salad

Oh, I forgot to mention. I get mine at walmart for 3.28$ for a five ounce plastic "clamshell" container.

 

[galvinkaos]

The last one I bought had more red romaine than anything. Maybe 3 quarter size pieces of radicchio, very little tango, frisee or arugula. I also have recently bought "fresh express" italian mix an it went bad 3 days before the exp date. I called and they sent me a free coupon for the largest size to replace it and $ off coupns too. So good customer service. I use a salad spinner to clean and store and have found it lasts a few weeks past exp date usually. I vary between which pre packaged mix and the open bin organic spring mix I buy depending on what looks the best/freshest. I have volunteers of leaf lettuce sprouting where last years garden was growing I pull once or twice aweek (or when they eat everything fater than I expected) and the garden area has a nice variety of weeds sprouting this winter - dandelions, clover, etc. So variety is not an issue.

I love the links. I sometimes wonder "which one is that"?

Dawna

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Hey after looking at the pics, the last batch had mizuna and lollo rosa. which were not on the ingredients.

Dawna

 

[loogielv]

Hi there! Glad you've stopped with the banana because that's not the best idea. Also, I like how you have him eating good greens, but I'd watch the types more closely. The collards parsley and mustard greens are high in oxalic acid, and although they are good nutrition sources, they should not be the bulk of the diet as the oxalic acid can bind the calcium. The kale is another green to feed in smaller quantities as it can cause goiter as well as it has the oxalic acid. A great alternative is spring mix--for the money, you get about the best you can get when feeding one tort. Lots of variety, and no chopping required.

http://russiantortoise.org/oxalates.pdf
http://www.russiantortoise.org/russiantortoisediet.htm
http://www.geocities.com/kyryah/tort2.html
http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/nutrientanalysis.htm

My personal opinion. I think what you've done for the tort is really great though. Sometimes the lists of "safe" foods for torts can be a little misleading because they don't tell you in what quantities.

thank you so much. I did tons of research and i knew that mustard greens were somewhat acceptable. more so than spinache, but i didn't see anything about the collard green (or especially the kale) being anything but perfect. I guess it goes to show that torts really need their weeds. I can't wait til I start a garden. (just to grow weeds. lol my grandma would kill me) Hopefully next month so I can do the best diet possible.

I heard turnip greens were awesome for them. Any thoughts there? Also, parsley is good cuz it's high in calcium? I heard that briefly on a youtube video that i can't find again. since you obviously are quite knowledgeable in the subject, I'll pick your brain some, if you wont mind?


edit: i replied before i see that there's a bit of a debate going on. I'll read through, but I still stand by as grateful for the info and would love for you to answer my above questions. thanks again

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as the carertaker of 3 rescued russians I have seen some bad damage to some shells, but those spots on his/her shell is pretty bad, could be from his previous home could be animal abuse. dog and racoons come to mind. living in california I am able to grow all my food for my torts, I feed mine a wide variety of leaves and flowers. If he is used to veggie mix he may have just decided to eat that and nothing else start mixing in other good turtle food for him so he can get used to it. the foods I use for mine are hibiscus flowers(they do not like the leaves for some reason) grape leaves, radish tops not the vegetable just the tops. dandelions when I can find them lol , artichoke leaves, some nice cactus pieces, and lots lots more. I am currently trying to find a native california foothill lotus that is a wildgrowing weed that desert tortoises like. They are plentiful in san diego so I may go out ther one day and see if I can find some. anyways if you have any questions there ar elots of knowledgeable peopel here who can answer them, BTW I was saddened to ee the poor guys living condition. Did they have a light for him? I did not see one but you never know. anyways kudos for rescuing him and here is to many many good years for him. they are resilient little guys and can bounce back from some pretty harsh conditions.

thanks for the input. I never even thought of artichoke leaves. Are there any risks, or concerns w/ artichoke leaves for torts?

as far as his prior lighting, it was just an incandescent light bulb. no uv, nothing.

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I was just trying to say that although those are great greens, feeding them all together isn't the best idea. I know with too much oxalic acid it can bind up to all the calcium, outweighing the benefits. It's difficult to know what that amount will be...thus not feeding those all together is recommended.

We're talking about a russian tortoise not a Sulcata here as well. Different dietary requirements even between tortoise species.

i hope everyone doesn't mind, i'm going to reply to each post one by one as I read. even if it's answered later in the thread, it's still good to create questions that future newbs might have.

anyway, if you were forced to store buy for a russian tort, what would your entire month of diet be like? I say month, because I assume you would change up the diet every week. If you'd stick with one for the whole month or longer, that's fine too. I'm really curious and I'll be store buying for at least another month

As far as this spring mix I keep hearing about, I've never heard of it. I'm from the states, is it sold here? at any grocery store? any other info on it?

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There is no spinach in the Organic Spring Mix I buy. You can chose brands that do not have in it the mix.

Just to let you know meg, I bought a "prepackage organic spring mix" which did not have spinach in the ingredients list but I found spinach in it. So look close at the leaves. I work at some of the food processing plants and mistakes can happen.

Dawna

it is my understanding that spinach isnt terrible for the tort if it's used about as much as fruit. pretty rarely. If a spinach leaf makes its way into a bag, I wouldn't think it would be a problem at all. Am I right there?

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Mixed Baby Greens

Fresh Herb Salad

Oh, I forgot to mention. I get mine at walmart for 3.28$ for a five ounce plastic "clamshell" container.

I dont believe it! we shop at walmart and I've never seen this. Is it near the salad packages? (the plastic bags with precut and prewashed salads?)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

RE: Tort was "free to great home" SHOULD’VE been "TERRIBLE OWNERS. NEEDS RESCUING" PI

I think sometimes we 'over think' the care of our tortoises. I have fed Spring Mix for several years and raised healthy tortoises on it. My sister who has been involved in turtle and tortoise rescue for over 30 years also uses Spring Mix. I use it as the basis of the tort salad and add other beneficial greens to it. Spring Mix by itself probably wouldn't be nutritious enough to raise a healthy tortoise on but I add other stuff to it. I don't pick out the spinach leaves, in fact for this latest salad mix I added spinach to it. I also added watercress, collards, mustard, dandelions, red leaf, green leaf , endive etc. The key to a good tortoise diet is variety. I don't make the same tort salad from one mix to another. I add as much different stuff as I can so every salad that I make is different. When we read that certain greens are too high in oxalic acid for instance, that means it wouldn't be good to feed ONLY that. But add those greens to the Spring Mix and other greens and it makes a great tortoise salad. Variety is the key!

 

[Yvonne G]

Oh, I forgot to mention. I get mine at walmart for 3.28$ for a five ounce plastic "clamshell" container.

This is great to know. My store sells the 1lb. clam shell for $5 something and I can get the same thing at Costco for $3 something...but I HATE going to Costco. I'll try Wal-mart and see what it sells there for. Never thought to check out the price on Wal-mart's veggies.

Yvonne

 

[galvinkaos]

thanks for the input. I never even thought of artichoke leaves. Are there any risks, or concerns w/ artichoke leaves for torts?

I use the newer sprouts from the plant. Not as tough.


As far as this spring mix I keep hearing about, I've never heard of it. I'm from the states, is it sold here? at any grocery store? any other info on it?

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I have 3 different grocery stores I go to depending on the circumstances and the prewashed and prepackaged spring mix or other salads are in better shape than the open bin spring mix. My DT are little still so I buy a week at a time and change each time what I buy. I also add 'volunteer' lettuce that is sprouting where last years garden was and the assorted yard weeds, artichoke leaves, etc. to vary it daily. They always start with the red/purple and eat light green last. Funny huh.

it is my understanding that spinach isnt terrible for the tort if it's used about as much as fruit. pretty rarely. If a spinach leaf makes its way into a bag, I wouldn't think it would be a problem at all. Am I right there?

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I don't pick it out unless there is a huge amount, but I try not to intentionally buy if it is a listed ingredient.

I dont believe it! we shop at walmart and I've never seen this. Is it near the salad packages? (the plastic bags with precut and prewashed salads?)


Yep, near the salad stuff. The Albertson's I go to sells prewashed/precut collard greens and curly mustard. but the bags are too big for the little ones. I just grab a small bunch once in a while.

Dawna

 

[tortoisenerd]

If this might be helpful, here's a sample of what I've fed my tort in the last month, where numbers 1-3 are all the time, and the others I have had a few in the house at a time. I go to several stores and browse for what is the best for my money--ie. stuff that is either cheaper or sold by the pound, and nutritious.

1. spring mix, organic, mostly the stuff sold by the pound at the organic grocer near me because it is very fresh, a lot of variety (I think they mix types together), and I can buy a small amount
2. alternating types of lettuce we keep in the house for sandwiches, such as green leaf and escarole (I only feed the leafiest tops)
3. russian tortoise mix I grow from seeds from carolinapetsupply.com (list available there)
4. radish greens
5. mallow
6. organic micro greens from Trader Joes (all sorts of baby veggie leaves)
7. organic dandelion greens
8. prickly pear cactus pad
9. carrot greens (he didn't like these so I tossed them)

I can get most of the greens to last close to 2 weeks if I wash and then dry them, and store them in tupperwares with paper towels on top and bottom to absorb moisture. Take out any rotting leaves immediately.

 

[Laura]

When people say Lettuce isn't good for torts, that is empty and only has fiber and water.. they are talking about Iceberg lettuce. Not the good dark green baby leafy stuff in Spring mix and so many others these days. Spring Mix is AWSOME and it is widely available at all grocery good stores.
At Walmart, the Super stores with grocery section.. i have found that the salads etc are often near the exp date or kept too cold and froze.. then it goes bad quicker. so check the date and look of the leaves before you buy.
If you buy too much for yout tort.. EAT IT yourself! Buying a month at a time might not work due to shelf life.

 

[nrfitchett4]

I always reach for the stuff at the back. But I use HEB because they have a field mix that doesn't have spinach, just romaine, radiochio, endive, frise and very few carrots.

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sorry, not trying to be argumentative, but romaine has very little nutritional value:
http://nutrition.about.com/od/fruitsandvegetables/p/romaine.htm
8 whole calories in 47 grams of lettuce. my tort would have to eat his body weight just to get the 8 calories.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I go the stores that are more expensive but have the fresher and higher quality stuff. With one tort I can afford to spoil him.

 

[nrfitchett4]

I just received a bag of mazuri off of ebay. soaked it and cut it up, but so far two days in, shelly won't touch it.
Guess I'll keep trying. That is why I bought the little bag on ebay instead of the 25lb monster bag.
Anyone know if you have to refridgerate/freeze the stuff?
Next I'll be ordering some seeds online to grow some home grass for her to try.

 

[loogielv]

RE: Tort was "free to great home" SHOULD’VE been "TERRIBLE OWNERS. NEEDS RESCUING" PI

I think sometimes we 'over think' the care of our tortoises.

I just made this exact point on another forum. Of course you followed it up with better examples than i did.

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If this might be helpful, here's a sample of what I've fed my tort in the last month, where numbers 1-3 are all the time, and the others I have had a few in the house at a time. I go to several stores and browse for what is the best for my money--ie. stuff that is either cheaper or sold by the pound, and nutritious.

1. spring mix, organic, mostly the stuff sold by the pound at the organic grocer near me because it is very fresh, a lot of variety (I think they mix types together), and I can buy a small amount
2. alternating types of lettuce we keep in the house for sandwiches, such as green leaf and escarole (I only feed the leafiest tops)
3. russian tortoise mix I grow from seeds from carolinapetsupply.com (list available there)
4. radish greens
5. mallow
6. organic micro greens from Trader Joes (all sorts of baby veggie leaves)
7. organic dandelion greens
8. prickly pear cactus pad
9. carrot greens (he didn't like these so I tossed them)

I can get most of the greens to last close to 2 weeks if I wash and then dry them, and store them in tupperwares with paper towels on top and bottom to absorb moisture. Take out any rotting leaves immediately.

HOly cow! 2 weeks!?! god I feel retarded now. I usually get all my greens, chop em up and mix em into a giant ziplock bad and throw em back in the crisper and then just take out the daily salad amount, add my timothy hay and other goodies. But the ziplock bag filled with collard, mustard, parsley, turnip greens etc etc goes bad in under a week.

I will admit, I wash em, chop em, mix em, and put em in the ziplock bag wet. guess I'd get longer life if I wash, chop em, mix em and then dry them and add a paper towel or 2?


btw, thank you for the diet plan, i shall assimilate it next trip to the market!

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I just want to reply to all thank you so much for chiming in on this. I know the thread was about my new found baby boy, but I feel all the dietary advice and follow up is essential for not only me, but any newbie that happens upon this thread.
it is CONSTANTLY my goal to provide a "one hitter quitter" of a thread that contains enough information that any newbie who happens to find it (via google most likely) will see many key words and points to start his/her research in the proper direction.

I didn't understand that torts need uvb or even d3 until I was days into my research. I just happened to see in a thread somewhere the words d3 and uvb, and i wondered what the heck it meant. I googled them, followed a click or 2 and opened up a whole new world of ignorance. It's hard to search for something you do not know that you do not know.

Thank you all, and please keep this thread alive with any other information. I plan to keep it going quit reguarly.

I took some pics of Spud destroying his salad today and i'll get them uploaded tomorrow. when the salad is in a bowl, it's non existant. when it's eye level on a flat plate, it's pwned. go figure

 

[tortoisenerd]

loogielv-I didn't mean it as a diet plan or perfect example by any means...just showing how "easy" it is to add variety to a tort's diet. But yeah, nothing bad on that list. Wet is bad as far as keeping greens and veggies...It takes some time to dry them and keep them dry (change out towels every few days, and pick out the bad leaves on the bottoms and sides), but it really helps cut down the bills. When I used to just keep everything in the container it came in, yeah about a week is the best you can get. Also, you probably have to chop things up less than you think. Even my little hatchling can manage whole spring mix leaves...gives him a little work out and stimulation. I still end up throwing some stuff out (that we won't eat, and it goes bad before the tort can finish it all) though.

nrfichett4-It supposedly freezes for up to a year (per the sales rep). I have mine in the freezer, and just a little baggie out for the tort. I sprinkle mine very finely on the greens and he got a taste for it.

 

[galvinkaos]

I have a "salad spinner" that I wash everything in, spin it and dump 99% of the water and then put in the fridge. My "tortoise food", as my son calls it, lasts until everyone eats it all (apparently tortoise food is good eating). The greens I grow last a month to 2 months. I too have found the mustard, collard, turnip turns bad faster, so I keep it separate and I buy smaller amounts. I think the store bought is aged longer before we see it. Like store bought eggs. My fresh laid wouldn't hardboil right for 6-8 weeks vs store bought which hard boil ok in 2 weeks. Man I wish I could have chickens again. Another when I hit the lottery list....

Dawna

 

[tortoisenerd]

Dawna-guess I should add a salad spinner to my list of things to buy for Trevor that my fiance never seems to think he actually needs! Thanks for the tip. You actually find turnip greens at the store? I've asked at about 5 different chains and no one will carry them, although the one closest to me says they do get requests, but not enough. I started a tray of them though.

 

[galvinkaos]

Don't tell the store but I broke some leaves off of the turnips at the grocery and bought them as something else (I don't remember what). The family won't eat turnips (and I have no clue how to cook them) or I would have bought the whole turnip. I got the salad spinner as a product test item for a cooking club I belong to. I washed the dust off last year and have used it more since I grew my garden and got the torts than when I first got it. My daughter uses it for draining excess water off pasta too. It actually has a lot of uses.

Dawna