To hibernate or not

[Tortoise lady]

I have a female age 12 and a male age 9 horsefield tortoises , and I am looking to breed them next spring.
My question is do I have to hibernate them , for them to breed . I believe that the person who had them before me did not hibernate them at all, and if so what time is the best to get them ready and the best way to go about it.
The other tortoises I have are Indian stars which don't hibernate, so this area is new to me. Any ideas would be welcome .

 

[Tom]

It is my opinion, based on keeping turtles and tortoises of my own since 1979, that if an animal would normally hibernate in the wild, then they should be safely hibernated in captivity too.

Do you "have" to hibernate them? No.

Here is a bunch of stuff I typed up for another members thread on the subject:

AZTorts asked this:
↑
Do tortoises know when to stop eating in preparation for hibernation? Or are we supposed to know when to stop feeding them in preparation for hibernation? My turtles seem to be hibernating, haven't seen them in a few days. The three toed is the first to disappear, then the ornate a week or so later. My AZ desert tortoise yearlings still seem to want to eat, although not as much. It's still warm here though. I want to hibernate my tortoise yearlings inside but don't know when to do it. I put them out during the day still and bring them in in the late afternoon.
Could be either or both.

I answered with this:
Here is a reply I did for someone else's thread yesterday about this subject. Maybe it will help you too AZTorts.

"They will not be able to hibernate at room temp. Its too warm. You will need to decide to either keep them up, or hibernate them properly. Right now they are in a bit of a "limbo", and that is not good. I've used the following methods for dozens of DTs from babies to adults, as well as many other tortoise and reptile species that come from areas with a natural hibernation period.

While I have kept hibernating species awake through winter and I know others have successfully done it too, it is my opinion that species that hibernate in the wild should also hibernate in captivity. It just needs to be done correctly. Leaving them outside to figure it out and deal with the rigors of winter in the small spaces (like backyards) that we stick them in, is not my idea of doing it "correctly". I know far too many that have died this way. Don't let these horror stories from people who did not properly prepare, or hibernate their animals in a safe, controlled way, scare you. Hibernation is totally natural and totally safe when a few simple guidelines are observed. Simple Guidelines:
1. Bring them down, and up, gradually.
2. Make sure their gut is empty before dropping temps. Two weeks of no food with the normal warm temps should do it.
3. Make sure they are well hydrated by soaking them, before and after hibernation.
4. Make sure the temperature is consistent and cold enough for the entire hibernation time.
5. Don't let them do it in a self dug burrow in your backyard. NOT safe!

To keep them up: You will need to keep them warm, day and night. The enclosure needs to be nice and bright too, so add a 6500K florescent tube, if need be. I set lights to come on an hour or two before the sun comes up and stay on for a good two hours after the sun goes down. Daily warm soaks, or every other day, seems to help convince their brains that its not sleepy time. I would still give them outside time all winter long as long as its sunny and warm-ish. The sun really helps and we have such nice mild winters here in SoCal.

To hibernate them: The dangerous parts of hibernation (flooding, burrow collapse, rodents, temperature extremes, etc..) can all be eliminated by bringing them inside into controlled conditions and prepping them correctly. While they have adapted to survive these conditions out in the wild for millennia, our back yards are not the wild. Not even close. The shallow burrows they construct in our yards are not enough to protect them from the whims of a cruel mother nature, and as Yvonne adeptly pointed out, many of them don't survive hibernation in the wild, or outdoors in captivity either. I have hibernated all ages of DTs using the following methods: It is often said that "tortoises do better outside". True some of the time in some instances, but not all of the time in all instances. Most babies actually do better inside most of the time. As such, when night temps really start to drop, as they did about two weeks ago, I bring small hibernating species of tortoises inside to their indoor set ups every evening. I feed them up for a good two or three weeks, and soak them daily or every other day. Then I leave the timers and heat and everything on and running, but I quit feeding them. I give them around two weeks with no food, daily soaks, and warm day time temps, as usual. After those two weeks, I start adjusting the light timers down and raise the fixtures a bit to lower basking temps. I let night temps drop as low as is practical for indoors. I'll do this for another week or two. Then I put them into their individual hibernacula. I use plastic shoe boxes, or something similar, with a couple of inches of substrate on the bottom. I keep them dry at this time. In the past I've used non-functioning fridges or freezers laid on their backs in a cool area to keep the shoe boxes in. Currently the floor of my garage stays around 50-55 all winter and I've used that for the last few years. The problem is that we keep having these weird warm winters with daily highs in the 80s or 90s sometimes, for days or weeks on end. Good for my non-hibernating species, but not so good for the hibernators. This year I'm getting them a dedicated fridge, so I don't have to worry about the weather and I won't have to try to fight the temperature outside. I'll set it to around 45 degrees F. I let first timers go for 8-10 weeks under these controlled conditions. Older ones will go for 12-16 weeks. I watch the temps, but I don't mess with them during hibernation. When the weather starts to warm up, I gradually warm up the fridge and let warmer air into the hibernation area, and at some point after a few days, I pull them out, soak them in shallow room temp water, and put them back into their indoor enclosures with no heat. Just room temp. I soak daily for a bout two weeks. After a few days, I will turn the lights on. I leave the fixtures at their higher adjustment at first and gradually, over the course of a few days, lower them back down to get the right basking temps. After the tortoises activity level comes up, and they start moving around more, I will begin offering food, and letting them run around in their outdoor pens on warmer days, but I still bring them in to escape the cold nights. For older/bigger tortoises that can't come back inside, I simply use an outdoor heated night box to do just about the same thing. The night box more or less takes the place of the indoor enclosure and gives me a way to keep them warmer at night while preparing for hibernation or coming out of it.

The above methods have worked perfectly for me for many years with a wide variety of reptile species. The only time I ever lost an animal during hibernation is when I took the advice of a very knowledgeable man, who didn't understand our climate, and let my tegus hibernate outside as he did in his climate. I lost two out of three that year. It was heartbreaking.

I don't have set dates for any of this, and I sort of go by "feel" and the weather on either end of hibernation. If we have a long summer with a warm fall, I wait longer to put them down. If we have an early spring, I wake them up sooner. Generally I try to get them down by December, and get them up sometime in March.


I know that is a lot to read. Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We will help you, whichever way you decide to go."

 

[ascott]

I have a female age 12 and a male age 9 horsefield tortoises , and I am looking to breed them next spring.
My question is do I have to hibernate them , for them to breed . I believe that the person who had them before me did not hibernate them at all, and if so what time is the best to get them ready and the best way to go about it.
The other tortoises I have are Indian stars which don't hibernate, so this area is new to me. Any ideas would be welcome .

All you have to do to allow breeding is for the male and female to occupy the same space...male tortoise don't really woo too much before they go in for the leap frog...but that is a natural mechanical behavior that will likely occur with or without sleep...

Brumation has so many functions within the tort physically as well as psychologically that it would, in my opinion, be best to facilitate that part of the tortoise life cycle instead of avoiding it perhaps because it can make some folks uncomfortable..

 

[Tortoise lady]

Thanks for that it was very helpful. My next question is when do I worm them before they hibernate or after and what is a good produce to use .( I live in England)

 

[ascott]

Thanks for that it was very helpful. My next question is when do I worm them before they hibernate or after and what is a good produce to use .( I live in England)

I personally would not introduce any poison into a healthy tortoise, especially just before brumation.