Tminus 5 days to Tortoise, Tons of Questions!

[Kayti]

Hello! I’m Kayti, and I’m planning on getting a 2007 hatched captive bread Russian Tortoise next Thursday. I’m very excited. Obviously.

I have a plan all thought up, but I think I might be missing something, and I have a few (a lot) of questions. I would really be grateful if anyone can help me out!

I’m going to keep with in a 10 gallon glass tank, and feed him pellets I got at petco.
…not

My real plan:

Enclosure: It’s a (about) 2 feet by 3 feet rubbermaid. The substrate will be a mix of coconut husk and soil, about 3 inches deep. Also, he/she would only be in it when I was not supervising him. Otherwise, he would have free (supervised) roam of my room.

Water: I have a laptop sized crock pot with 3 inch high sides. I was planning on filling it with 1 inch of water, and putting a rock in the middle to make climbing out easier. It’s spill proof, but it’s made out of slightly abrasive material. Are underbellies sensitive? I was thinking of switching it out for something ceramic, and slightly shallower.
Diet: I was thinking mostly weeds, with a base of Dandelion, Clover, Bindweeds, Smooth Sow Thistle, Plantain, and Vetch, all of which grow right outside my house. Whole, washed leaves, right? I’m thinking of feeding him as much as he can eat in 20 minutes every morning. Would there be any benefit to giving him two 10 minute meals morning and night? Also it it okay to let him nibble on the lawn?
-I was also thinking of making hay available 24/7 too, but I’m not sure what kind. I’ve read conflicting information about the benefits and drawbacks of hay. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
Soaking: 3 times a week, in tepid water, only as high as the width between tortoise tummy and top of shell.
Lighting/heating: Powersun UV Mercury Vapor Lamp, on 12 hours. Basking spot in the low 90’s. I was thinking of not getting a heat source for the night; I would keep the room temp above 65 at all times, and closer to 70 on average. Is this a bad idea? I think I remember reading somewhere that a cycle of day time temp and low time temp was healthiest.
Vitamins: I have a small cuttlebone that would be available 24/7. I was also thinking of buying some commercially available tortoise vitamins to sprinkle on his/her food. Is there a good brand anyone can recommend? I’m looking for something with D3, right?
On sunny days, I was planning on letting him graze in a tortoise-safe patch of the garden. My plan is to build something dome-like out of chicken wire, possibly, and just put it over the area he will occupy that day. I’ll probably stake it down somehow, to prevent escape/digging out. Does that sound like it will work? I’m hoping he won’t spend the entire day eating.
I’ve picked out a herp vet with good reviews, and it’s even less than an hour away. I’m going to take him/her to get wormed, and just generally checked over, if the breeder says they haven’t already been checked. I’m also going to set aside $200 for emergency vet funds as soon as I can.
Random question: My cat follows me everywhere. Would supervised interaction between my cat and the tortoise be okay? Can the tortoise give my cat salmonella?
I also have a golden retriever, whom I love dearly, but will never be allowed to meet the tortoise, ever.
I’m sorry this is so long, I just don’t want to leave out something important! Is there anything I’ve forgotten? I'm the most obsessive pet owner I know. I would be very eternally thankful for any advice you can offer! (Also, I promise TONS of pictures later this week!)
-Kayti

 

[Crazy1]

Kayti, I would not let a tort roam a room. it is cooler on the floor than you think and lots of stuff to eat down there. Plus you have the cat.
If your RT is a yearling he/she will still be quite small. I am not quite understanding the water container. A shallow saucer like for a plant will do fine. Also you only want it to go to the bridge thats were the bottom shell meets the top shell. Diet at long as the plants and lawn have no chemicals including fertilizers that would be fine. Remember RT are diggers so I'm not sure if he should be left unsupervised outside at all unless he can't dig or climb out and your dog, cat or birds can't get in. TNT is good vitamin. I also soak mine once a week in a few drops of vitisol its a bird vitamin.
I suggest you get a gram scale. this will more accuratelly tell you if he is eating enough or too little.

 

[Rosiee]

I might be being a worrier but i'd be careful about the amount of water your putting in the bowl compared to how small he is, and how big the sides are compared to how small he is 3inch sides seem high for a baby to climb, a rock in it would be fine but you wouldnt want him to fall off the rock and flip on to his back in the water, there is a thread on the forum about somebodies tortoise's drowning. I watched my tortosied when i firsted got her to see in there was anything in her enclosure that she did struggle doing. I'll defaintly be having a nosy at your set up when theres picture.
My other advice is to read about things until you cant even see words any more! I read so many of the forum's posts, other forums posts, and information sheets so i keep learning what could make Little Foot happy.

 

[Jacqui]

First off congrats! Second if you were getting an adult Russian, most of the things your planning would be fine, but your getting a wee one. This guy is gonna be quite small still.

Enclosure is big enough, the substrate will be fine...your going to keep it moist right? I agree with what you have already been told about roaming loose in your room. It can be too cold down there, so many things get dropped unnoticed to the floor and babies love to eat what they shouldn't, not to mention the things we use to clean our floor, and the fact this guy will be small. So easy for him to "disappear" and be lost or you might simply forget about him for just a bit, quickly have to do something, and crunch there under your foot or chair is a smushed tort.

This is a baby, so your going to have to scale your water dish way down for him. Like has been suggested plant saucers are great and some like the pans because they have an incline.

Like Rosiee wrote, at first be very careful about you youngster falling onto his back in the water or under a heat light especially. Things may need to be rearranged or like the water source, downsized for awhile. Use your judgment, but beware these can be problem areas.

Crazy covered the food, lawn chemicals, and vitamins already. As to two meals over one, it's more personal tastes. Many folks like the two, because the torts can become little beggars and make you think the poor guys are starving. With two meals you can make them think they are getting spoiled twice a day, not once. :

I really push for the permanent and very well thought out, extra secure outside pen. In your case with a youngster that worry is about tripled. Things happen. Backs get turned for a minute and they are gone. They are so small, blend into the ground so well they can be right in front of your eyes and you won't see them, not to mention their neat trick of being as still as a rock.

The outside pen...is this unsupervised or supervised time? Chicken wire has pretty large holes if your having that as the walls of the dome (at his level). He may be trying to get thru it all the time. Are you wanting something thats movable? I would think you might be better to get a large rabbit type cage and remove the pan, then use the upper wire part for his pen outside (if supervised). They are fairly strong, already made with a covered lid, ect.., Be sure he has a hide in there too.

Have you thought about maybe getting a large rubbermaid, drilling holes in it, filling it with substrate, and planting it for his outside time? Weight makes it harder to move, but you can drag it, but is usually far safer then your dome idea. Only need to fix a wire top, has solid sides so it won't make him want to go thru it all the time, he can't climb out as easily (straight, smooth sides), and no digging out. Would not have in a full sun location however.

If your talking unsupervised time outside, I would be sure I had something with wire under or a solid bottom, very solid walls, and a strong cover. Between torts being torts and trying to explore what's outside their pen and all the other critters (two and four legged or winged) wanting to get in the cage to visit or eat the tort, life can be rough.

My cats pretty much ignore the torts, but I try not to allow them to spend time together. With a youngster, your talking cat toy size and I think most cats would see it move and go for the swat action playtime.

 

[MaBlo98]

All I can add to that lot is yes, no bottomless pen outside. Russians dig like miners and would be out of it in no time.
A mesh bottom that allows the greenery through would be ok as long as it doesnt let the littlun out. And yes cover it. cats dogs and birds are all capable of carrying him/her off.
Later a brick built enclosure with secure tunnels and hides are great for Russions as long as they are secure .

 

[Crazy1]

Just an added thought. Gophers! I have acquired Or one has adopted my yard, yes a Gopher. I am sure they (the hatchlings)would love to explore a gopher whole if they were able to get into one. Then bye, bye baby. I would never find it. I am in the process of making a secure outside pen for my hatchlings and yearlings. I am planning to put 1/2 inch hardware cloth, (1/2 inch open square wire) on the bottom and top, as my hatchlings are tiny.

 

[Kayti]

Hmmm. I was worried about the enclosure too. Now I’m thinking a planted rabbit cage outside? Like those big superpet things? I could drill drainage in the bottom, and plant it with edible weeds and good things to hide in. He would only be in it on sunny days (which are rare around here) and then only during the hotter part of the day (but he’d always have shade to retreat too). Very supervised.

I like the plant saucer dish idea, and I think I have one around the house somewhere, thanks for that. I’m still concerned about drowning problems too. I know the proper amount of water to use, are there any other precautions I can take?

I’m going to pick up some TNT tomorrow, are there any dangers to overdosing with it? It’s a powder, right? Should I sprinkle it on like salt, or a little heavier?

As for the free-roaming, I see how it’s a bad idea now. May be someday I can have a tortoise room. That’d be awesome. But until then, he’ll stay in his safe habitat.

Crazy1: A gopher tortoise, or an actual gopher?? How the heck do you have a pet gopher?

Thanks for all the advice all!
3 days!

 

[Crazy1]

Kayti, were are you located that sunny days are rare?
I don't think you can overdose with TNT Check out http://carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180 I have also used Tortoise dust VF by t-rex for Vitamins. I just followed the feeding directions.
If you are worried about the saucer you can place rocks (too big for your tort to swallow) in the bottom so he can walk on them yet still get a drink. He won't be able to soak but you can soak him a couple times a week. My Greek hatchlings are small they range from 4 3/4 to 7 cm long. I got a plastic dish for a hermit crab. It is shallow and has a small ramp so they can walk in and out. I see them use it all the time and no flipping so far.
Kayti, an actual gopher-Not a pet gopher one that is taking great pride in tearing up my yard- darn gophers .
My niece even had a tug of war with it with a plant. My niece finally let go and the plant disappeared underground- no kidding. I am sure this is a monster gopher. I am just waiting for my 8 lbs DT to disappear down one of the monster gopher holes, as they have no wire under their pen. LOL I can just see that gopher grabbing the leg or tale of my DT and poof down its hole they will go. I gotta keep a sense of humor about this pest or he will drive me insane. Well maybe I’m already there.
Ps, can' wait to see pics of your new shelled baby . Have you chosen a name yet?

 

[Kayti]

Crazy1 – Mercer Island. It’s near Seattle, and today is the first sunny day we’ve had in I don’t even remember how long. It’s pretty brutal.

I’m picking him/her up in ONE HOUR! AHHH. AH.

Here’s my enclosure, I’m worried it is too small, but I have a backup if he ends up being able to climb out of it:



And a nosy cat for size comparison:



Look okay? I don't really know why I added the ceramic tiles. I just had them. They stay weirdly cool underneath the basking spot.

 

[Jacqui]

Relax! I know you want everything perfect for your little guy, but it won't kill him if it's not. You have the basics and you know things to look for. You already anticipating he might climb out....have you got the pen on the floor so if he does climb out, he won't fall a long way or to a hard surface?

Love your cat, do you have something prepared in case she/he decides the tort is a funny mouse? Warning cats are great at flicking and flipping things out of boxes. Would hate for the tort to find himself airborne. Not to mentioned clawed or even chewed.

Your going to remove the thermometers so he can't chew them right? If those tiles are feeling cool, you might want to remove them.

Most everything is fine tuning and playing by ear til you know your tort and what it does and doesn't do.

 

[Crazy1]

Jacqui is right Relax and have fun with s/him. Set up a rug under the enclosure if he climbs out he will drop on a soft area. My Greek is 7 months old 77 grams and 70 mm long and has been in a similar enclosure and has not climbed out.
You could also cover his pen with hardware cloth this is wire mesh that is about 1/2 inch squares. No Kitty Paws in, No little torts out. Don't use screen because UVB will not penetrate the screen. You will do just fine with you new shelled baby. As Jacqui said just fine tunning now.

 

[Jentortmom]

The only thing I see right now with your setup is the water dish looks deep. I use small 2-3" across saucers and fill them up 1/2 - 1" depending on which baby. Your lights do you have uvb as well?? For vitamins I use repcal calcium & herpavite, minerall (yellow lid), TNT (sometimes), bird vitamins. I rotate my multivitamins & calcium powders regularly, I give my babies calcium everyday to every other day (depending on shell), I soak them in bird vitamins every other day.
Can't wait to see your new little baby....

 

[Kayti]

I posted pictures in the Russian Tortoise section!
(And I've got a bunch more questions!)

 

[Crazy1]

Kayti, ask away we are here to try and help and learn as well.