Tiger neck/Leopard tort hybrid update

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mightymizz

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I would like to hear more thoughts on if this is even possible? I have 2 of these babies, both pictured in my more recent pictures thread in this subforum.

If confirmed that it is possible for these 2 species to mix, would the babies be 100% sterile?

Would the housing requirements/diet be any different??

I always assumed that these 2 species couldn't interbreed?

Looking for more help in this!!
 

FLINTUS

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I believe all the genuses of torts can actually breed in theory-providing they can get round the shapes of shells part for mating-but the offspring would not be able to reproduce.
 

starfield

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No genetic testing has been done however the pair of redfoots and the pair of Leo's were raised by the breeder fr
Hatchling. So the sperm retention theory is debunked. I would imagine they are sterile but don't want to find out, that's why my friend has it. I'm raising a herd of redfoots with the intention of breeding and do not wish to perpetuate hybrids, no matter how cool they look
 

mightymizz

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Looking forward to possible thoughts regarding my previous post (copied below). I originally picked redfoots since they did not typically get as large as leopards, sulcatas, aldabras etc.. We just aren't sure what to expect regarding potential size of these "hybrids" if they are indeed hybrids.

At 1 year in, the one tortoise of these 2 that didn't get sick is not showing any more growth than the cherryheads. When might I expect to see some much quicker growth if it is half leopard?




mightymizz said:
I would like to hear more thoughts on if this is even possible? I have 2 of these babies, both pictured in my more recent pictures thread in this subforum.

If confirmed that it is possible for these 2 species to mix, would the babies be 100% sterile?

Would the housing requirements/diet be any different??

I always assumed that these 2 species couldn't interbreed?

Looking for more help in this!!
 

Hustler

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This is just Insane... Leofoots..... WoW
I myself dont agree with it, but fascinating none the less
Ive seen slider yellowbelly crosses but they did this themselves in the wild to try for this is too much....
 

mightymizz

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Well, it seems people that might have a good insight regarding this topic and some of my questions haven't chimed in yet. I have 2 torts from the same breeder, and pictures of them can be seen in my thread in redfoots section if curious.

I understand that mixing species is a touchy subject so feel free to PM me if you are someone that has a better understanding of this than a typical person like myself and might not want to get into a public debate about it. I am really at this point concerned about the potential size that these 2 torts might get. There is a large difference in size between redfoots and leopards.

Here are my previous concerns copied below:

Looking forward to possible thoughts regarding my previous post (copied below). I originally picked redfoots since they did not typically get as large as leopards, sulcatas, aldabras etc.. We just aren't sure what to expect regarding potential size of these "hybrids" if they are indeed hybrids.

At 1 year in, the one tortoise of these 2 that didn't get sick is not showing any more growth than the cherryheads. When might I expect to see some much quicker growth if it is half leopard?


(Yesterday 12:25 PM)mightymizz Wrote: I would like to hear more thoughts on if this is even possible? I have 2 of these babies, both pictured in my more recent pictures thread in this subforum.

If confirmed that it is possible for these 2 species to mix, would the babies be 100% sterile?

Would the housing requirements/diet be any different??

I always assumed that these 2 species couldn't interbreed?

Looking for more help in this!!
 

yagyujubei

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Nobody can answer your questions accurately. There are just too few to know. The second pic on SW shows three with their leopard father same size as father at 4 years old. Why not start another thread with good close ups of those you are unsure of, and maybe we can help identify them. If they are hybrids and you are unsure if you want to raise them, it wouldn't be hard to sell them, or exchange them for redfoots. Easy...
mightymizz said:
Well, it seems people that might have a good insight regarding this topic and some of my questions haven't chimed in yet. I have 2 torts from the same breeder, and pictures of them can be seen in my thread in redfoots section if curious.

I understand that mixing species is a touchy subject so feel free to PM me if you are someone that has a better understanding of this than a typical person like myself and might not want to get into a public debate about it. I am really at this point concerned about the potential size that these 2 torts might get. There is a large difference in size between redfoots and leopards.

Here are my previous concerns copied below:

Looking forward to possible thoughts regarding my previous post (copied below). I originally picked redfoots since they did not typically get as large as leopards, sulcatas, aldabras etc.. We just aren't sure what to expect regarding potential size of these "hybrids" if they are indeed hybrids.

At 1 year in, the one tortoise of these 2 that didn't get sick is not showing any more growth than the cherryheads. When might I expect to see some much quicker growth if it is half leopard?


(Yesterday 12:25 PM)mightymizz Wrote: I would like to hear more thoughts on if this is even possible? I have 2 of these babies, both pictured in my more recent pictures thread in this subforum.

If confirmed that it is possible for these 2 species to mix, would the babies be 100% sterile?

Would the housing requirements/diet be any different??

I always assumed that these 2 species couldn't interbreed?

Looking for more help in this!!
 

Baoh

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Thanks to yagyujubei for the alert.

To answer your questions within the limits of what I am aware of with regard to them, mightymizz:

Yes, it is possible. No one would probably yet know if the pardalis x carbonaria hybrids are sterile or not. The person I imagine who could potentially determine this earliest is the guy who owns the older ones posted on SW. There has yet to be actual evidence presented for or against it. I also do not yet know if the pardalis x sulcata hybrids are sterile or not, but I might be the first to find out.

101_2433.JPG


I would posit that you could keep them in the same way you might keep a leopard or redfoot. I keep my leopard tortoises the same way I keep my redfoot tortoises and they all do extremely well. I go into the overlapping care parameter space in the SW thread if you might like to read my thoughts on that matter a bit further. I have tried and succeeded with this across the spectrum of my tortoise species.

These two species can indeed interbreed. I suspect quite a few different tortoise species can.

Judging by the 4-year-olds in the SW thread, they will indeed get large. At least in the leopard range, I would say.

If you would rather only keep redfoots/cherryheads and are trying to stay more moderate with the size of your animals, I would be happy to buy your two hybrids from you *and* purchase a redfoot or cherryhead baby to reassemble your group. Or give you enough to buy a couple cherryheads and cover the shipping of the hybrid. Or some combo deal we could discuss. That would satisfy your size goals you mentioned. Feel free to PM me if this is something you would like to do. I like allegraf's cherryhead offspring and N2TORT's cherryhead offspring from what I have seen. There are many other good breeders of CH and RF babies, but those two come to mind immediately as having some especially nice CH babies.
 

mightymizz

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Thanks Baoh and Yagy for the replies. I just didn't realize how "young" this entire idea of hybrids between these 2 specific species was. It makes sense that there might not be that much hands on information.

As far as pictures go, my thread in this subforum has some close up photos of the 2 torts in question. They are from the same breeder as Starfeld's tort. Here is link to that thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-71364.html

Baoh- I will think into this more and discuss potential options with my wife regarding these hybrids and our future plans for them. (might get tricky with how the little ones are attached to these babies also) If at some point sooner or later we are interested we will get in touch! :)
 

Baoh

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mightymizz said:
Thanks Baoh and Yagy for the replies. I just didn't realize how "young" this entire idea of hybrids between these 2 specific species was. It makes sense that there might not be that much hands on information.

As far as pictures go, my thread in this subforum has some close up photos of the 2 torts in question. They are from the same breeder as Starfeld's tort. Here is link to that thread: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-71364.html

Baoh- I will think into this more and discuss potential options with my wife regarding these hybrids and our future plans for them. (might get tricky with how the little ones are attached to these babies also) If at some point sooner or later we are interested we will get in touch! :)

Glad I could be of service. There is a lot of speculation out there and only a limited number of folks have much in the way of hands-on experience.

Yeah, I do not want to pressure you or come off that way. If you decide to part with them, let me know and we can work out a deal that satisfies us all. Thanks for taking the time to think about the pros and cons seriously.
 

starfield

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Sorry I've been silent on the subject, life on a dairy farm gets in the way of virtual tortoise play :/ only time will tell on the future breedings of these hybrids...
 
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