Three Russian torts, happy together

[Cherepakha]

Hi all! As there are different opinions and witnessed situations on this topic, I thought I'd show how my Russian torts are getting along great
I got my my girl Slookie about 10 months ago. A few weeks back, Princess Leia came to stay with us for a holiday (and later as an indefinite house guest) and last week, Gandalf the Grey completed the group as a male.
We got Gandalf because the girls were getting along really great. I thought Slookie (as our vet thinks she was dragged from the wild ( ) would be territorial, but her curiosity took over and she and Leia are always close together. I thought they were always cuddled up together because I only have one heat lamp, but even when the sun hits the whole terrarium, they bask in the sun close together. Gandalf first stirred things up a little when he got here by knocking over plants and walking over the girls and quite literally getting in their way. A week later now, things have calmed down and they're doing great. Slookie has been more active since she got her companions (previously, she would just eat, walk around a little and then bury herself in the soil). I even saw her 'running' yesterday. As it's only been a week, much can change, but the prospects are good

 

[TortsNTurtles]

They are beautiful.

 

[phebe121]

Pretty just if you see one being picked on separate but alot of people say 3 do well together

 

[Yvonne G]

People don't always recognise dominant/submissive behaviour. Just be aware and watch for someone not eating and doing a lot of hiding.

 

[Cherepakha]

Hi Yvonne and Phebe, I'll look out for these signs! Sometimes I come home and see them eating and then they all eat together (as you can see in one of the photographs). I check them for scratches or wounds regularly and if they show different behaviour. Thank you for your cautions!

 

[Tom]

People don't always recognise dominant/submissive behaviour. Just be aware and watch for someone not eating and doing a lot of hiding.

What a much better way to say the same thing I was thinking. Very effective message. Thank you for setting yet another good example.

 

[ascott]

Hi Yvonne and Phebe, I'll look out for these signs! Sometimes I come home and see them eating and then they all eat together (as you can see in one of the photographs). I check them for scratches or wounds regularly and if they show different behaviour. Thank you for your cautions!

I have to say, when I looked at each of the pics, in every one there is aggression and submission going on.....I would plan to set up a back up area for when the subtleness of the dominating gets very obvious and you have a stressed tort because of that....I hope the torts do ok....

 

[Cherepakha]

I have to say, when I looked at each of the pics, in every one there is aggression and submission going on.....I would plan to set up a back up area for when the subtleness of the dominating gets very obvious and you have a stressed tort because of that....I hope the torts do ok....

Hi Ascott, can you elaborate? As a relatively new tort owner, I might be oblivious to these signs!

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Nice looking tortoises. Do you have a water dish they can get into? Your substrate looks dry.

If you typically see one tortoise with its head fully extended and the other(s) with head pulled in, it's a dominance submission/fear thing. If one spends more time shelled up or hiding than the other(s), it's being bullied. By the time the bullying victim stops eating well and you notice, you may think its just less hungry, but bullying has been going on a long time. It's easy to misinterpret or misattribute behaviors.

 

[tglazie]

I agree with ascott, the big girl there, the bronze one, is bullying those other two. I'm guessing she's the longtime resident? Yeah, her touching the other ones, that isn't welcome by them. She's doing it as a dominance display. Her neck is sticking out, and their heads are withdrawn, because she feels confident that she has nothing to worry about from the likes of them. The male was knocking things over in an attempt to escape. Now that he realizes such is impossible, he's adopted a more withdrawn behavior pattern as a survival tactic. From the look of the picture in which they are feeding, she appears to be hogging the food too, given that her side seems all finished up while the other two are intimidated into taking less food.

I don't know, I may be wrong. I'd have to watch these guys for a few days to know for certain what's going on. But I know that with my margies, separation was absolutely necessary.

Russians are very bad about this sort of thing, worse than is typical among tortoises, I find. If you give each animal a separate enclosure, you will quickly find that the other two perk up and start acting as dominant as the big bronze girl there. I can assure you that once I started keeping all of my torts separate, they started grazing, basking and sleeping in a similar fashion, as opposed to when I kept my margies together and the females spent most of the day hiding. This allows all animals a proper chance at being the best tortoise they can be. When you separate them and allow them all to build up their own individual strength, you'll see what happens whenever you introduce one into another's territory. Usually a fight will ensue, because unlike before, both animals will be at full strength, and neither one of them will be willing to take any guff off the other. I introduce Gino and Little Gino to each other a few times during the spring, to rev them up for the breeding season, and whenever I put those two boys in the same place, they get in each other's faces like a couple of prize fighters before a bell, taunting each other, trying to psyche the other one out. Invariably, this doesn't work, and some biting and shoving ensues. After a few minutes of this, I break up the fight and return each tortoise to their respective enclosures. After this, they patrol their territory like someone was coming to steal it from them. Usually, the breeding response immediately following is tremendous. You'll see. Separation makes tortoises strong. And if you want to introduce them periodically to ensure they don't grow bored of their solitude and routine, by all means, play referee.

I know this sounds awful to those wishing to ascribe human emotions to tortoises, but everyone must eventually come to terms with the fact that tortoises aren't people. They are relatively solitary animals, unlike humans, who are social to the point that isolation is physically detrimental. My Graecus, a male Greek tortoise, hasn't had contact with another tortoise in over twelve years, and he is as feisty and energetic as he was in year one of our twenty three year relationship.

T.G.

 

[ascott]

Hi Ascott, can you elaborate? As a relatively new tort owner, I might be oblivious to these signs!

If you typically see one tortoise with its head fully extended and the other(s) with head pulled in, it's a dominance submission/fear thing. If one spends more time shelled up or hiding than the other(s), it's being bullied. By the time the bullying victim stops eating well and you notice, you may think its just less hungry, but bullying has been going on a long time. It's easy to misinterpret or misattribute behaviors.

touching the other ones, that isn't welcome by them. She's doing it as a dominance display. Her neck is sticking out, and their heads are withdrawn, because she feels confident that she has nothing to worry about from the likes of them. The male was knocking things over in an attempt to escape. Now that he realizes such is impossible, he's adopted a more withdrawn behavior pattern as a survival tactic. From the look of the picture in which they are feeding, she appears to be hogging the food too, given that her side seems all finished up while the other two are intimidated into taking less food.

You two rocked the reply....awesome....

 

[Cherepakha]

I agree with ascott, the big girl there, the bronze one, is bullying those other two. I'm guessing she's the longtime resident?

Hi! Thank you for giving feedback!
But no, that's Leia, the indefinite house guest. I must say that they all have their moments sticking their heads out and placing it on each other (As you can see in the second picture, it's Slookie that is leaning on Leia). The more greenish one is Slookie, she's been here the longest. She actually became more active when Leia joined. She spent her evenings buried in the soil and now she wanders around more. I am taking this as a good thing.
Gandalf was knocking plants over to eat them he knocked over a prayer plant and then they all three started nibbling on the leaves, he actually trying to do it again right now hehe.

In the 'feeding' picture, Leia walked on to the plate because Slookie started to 'pull' the leaf as she was eating it.

Yes, I've learned they are indeed loners, however, can they get used to living with others? Leia and Gandalf spent about 4 months together in an enclosure in the reptile store and Slookie was also with another tort when we bought her.

Nice looking tortoises. Do you have a water dish they can get into? Your substrate looks dry.

Hi! Thank you too for providing feedback. I've been bathing them every other day. I had a sprayer bottle and sprayed the subtrate every day, however I broke it and haven't been able to get one yet (at least, not without a chemical cleaning liquid in it..)

 

[Cherepakha]

You two rocked the reply....awesome....

Hehehe, it's such a handy feature!!

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Hi! Thank you too for providing feedback. I've been bathing them every other day. I had a sprayer bottle and sprayed the subtrate every day, however I broke it and haven't been able to get one yet (at least, not without a chemical cleaning liquid in it..)[/QUOTE]
Bathing is good but does not take the place of a water dish. A large plant saucer is ideal. Spraying a large enclosure is an exercise in patience or futility if you don't have a garden hose. Just water it as you would any garden bed. Use a watering can or a pitcher or anything you like. The bottom layer should be damp. The tortoises may do your mixing for you or you might need to rake or stir.

When you spray, it dampens the top layer only and humidifies the air briefly. It doesn't last, and it's not enough. Tortoises need to be able to burrow into moisture.

 

[pepsiandjac]

Hiya,shouldn't the torts have been quarentined before they were put together

 

[Cherepakha]

Hiya,shouldn't the torts have been quarentined before they were put together

Hi! Thank you for your concern! Slookie has been checked by our vet and Leia and Gandalf by the vet from the reptile store. They have no worms and are all healthy. The vets and store said a quarantine was not necessary as Gandalf and Leia have already been together, however, I'm taking them all three for an extra check-up in a few weeks, just to be sure!

The more healthy torts, the better.

 

[tglazie]

I really mean no offense when I say this, so please don't be upset, but I would really question any vet who downplays the importance of quarantine. I didn't bring it up, given that you've already introduced them, making quarantine a moot point, but I never introduce any tortoise to any of my tortoises without a twelve month quarantine. I learned my lesson vicariously through my uncle, who nearly lost his colony of six leopard tortoises back in '97 when he introduced a fresh import to his group. He thought that three months was enough of a quarantine. Unfortunately, he was wrong, and all of his tortoises were afflicted by a highly aggressive, highly contagious respiratory disease that killed his youngest male and left him with pricey vet bills that he spent the next four months paying down. Since that episode, I've always taken the strictest precautions. After a year, I will have had ample opportunity to check the tortoise for any problems.

Interesting that Leia is the dominant one in all of the pictures. From what you describe, your tortoises are more agitated, which is why they're wandering around more than they once did, and the dominance play between the three is a little more nuanced than I would have guessed initially. If they must live together, which, once again, I'd advise against, then keep an eye on them, a close eye. If you don't have a digital scale already, do acquire one. You can monitor the weight fluctuations of all three tortoises and document them in a spiral or on your phone. This way, when one starts to drop in weight as a result of stress, you can separate that tortoise. Also, keep an eye out for not so subtle, physical fighting. Healthy, well established tortoises fight. I've never known an exception to this where Russians are concerned, and given that Russians are the most readily available tortoise here in San Antonio, I've met a lot of Russian keepers. But yeah, I wish you the best of luck with them, but keep your eye on them, because tortoises living together in an indoor enclosure, in my experience, always spells inevitable trouble.

T.G.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

It can turn on a dime, everything's fine among the tortoises, and then it isn't. Been there, done that, lost one, saved one.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

i has a question. how tall is the wall on the side of the cage on the 3d picture? couldn't the torts just climb on top of each other and fall out? also do you provide a heat light and uvb light?

 

[leigti]

You may just have to have three enclosures. At least inside. It will probably be better if you have a large outdoor enclosure for the warm part of the year at least. I'm sorry I don't know where you live. Because if you remove one, then you're left with a pair. Which is worse than a group. Usually. If it was me I would make three indoor enclosures. And one very large outdoor enclosure. Or try to rehome at least one tortoise, but then I would have to indoor enclosures.