This deadly heat 🔥

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
54,477
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Something I do for work because I haul animals all over the place is keep a thermometer or two in the car so you can really see how hot it is, or isn't. I recently had a complaint that we'd left a dog in the car on a cool day in the shade. High for that day was 71. I brought the person over and showed them the thermometer which read 73. On another day it was 88 and we had to park partially in the sun. I put the sun shade up in the windshield and left the car running with the AC going. This is common practice in my business, and we are usually sitting inside the car with the animals. I got a concerned complaint that day too. I walked the person over and showed them the thermometer at 66 degrees.

I now have a wireless wifi "Temp Stick" that sends readings to my phone. I stick the temp stick on the animals cage in the car and leave my mobile hot spot on and plugged in. Works great. I can check the temp from anywhere. I have it set to send me text alerts on my phone and email if the temp rises above my set point.

As a dog trainer, I'm a big proponent of taking dogs out in public for socialization. I like having my dogs with me. This thread was a welcome reminder for people to be VERY careful in the heat. Thank you @KarenSoCal
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
40,473
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Something I do for work because I haul animals all over the place is keep a thermometer or two in the car so you can really see how hot it is, or isn't. I recently had a complaint that we'd left a dog in the car on a cool day in the shade. High for that day was 71. I brought the person over and showed them the thermometer which read 73. On another day it was 88 and we had to park partially in the sun. I put the sun shade up in the windshield and left the car running with the AC going. This is common practice in my business, and we are usually sitting inside the car with the animals. I got a concerned complaint that day too. I walked the person over and showed them the thermometer at 66 degrees.

I now have a wireless wifi "Temp Stick" that sends readings to my phone. I stick the temp stick on the animals cage in the car and leave my mobile hot spot on and plugged in. Works great. I can check the temp from anywhere. I have it set to send me text alerts on my phone and email if the temp rises above my set point.

As a dog trainer, I'm a big proponent of taking dogs out in public for socialization. I like having my dogs with me. This thread was a welcome reminder for people to be VERY careful in the heat. Thank you @KarenSoCal
Unfortunately most people won't do anything even close to what you do, to make sure they are safe. Your situation is a bit different and you should take extra precautions.
I am not for taking dogs most places. I cringe when I see them at art shows, street fairs, swap meets, or in a store parking lot, etc.
I would also question any dog being left in a car even with the car running. Many dogs and puppies have died from heat in a vehicle running with the air on. The car or AC failed and the dogs paid with their lives.
 

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,204
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
I am not for taking dogs most places. I cringe when I see them at art shows, street fairs, swap meets, or in a store parking lot, etc.
I'm really curious about this. Let's remove the weather as a factor.

Dogs are "companion" animals. They want to be with their human, and many of us, like Tom, enjoy taking them with us to an outing like you mentioned. And the dog usually loves it...the smells, new people to meet, possibly a chance to be with other dogs.

What makes you cringe? As long as the dog is socialized and behaves reasonably, why not take them?
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
40,473
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I have never seen a dog "happy" to be at a crowded any place I mentioned. They are usually dodging peoples feet, walking on hot pavement and not even being paid attention too. Those places are not for dogs. People bring them there for themselves not the dog
There are better ways to socialize a dog. Family, friends, neighbors.
Better places to bring your dog. Family, beach, forest preserves, walks, yard just to name a few.
Not a store to sit in the car or be tied to a pole outside. Which btw, all the ones I have seen tied to a pole while owners shop, all are nervous and scared. Also not any of the places I already mentioned. Those are not happy dogs to me. Those are owners satisfying their own needs.
Just walk a dog thru a crowded art show or swap meet. Then take that same dog and play with him in your yard or a park. The dog in the yard/park is a happy dog. You will see a big difference.
 

Turtulas-Len

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,352
Location (City and/or State)
Southern Md - Northern Neck Va
I have never seen a dog "happy" to be at a crowded any place I mentioned. They are usually dodging peoples feet, walking on hot pavement and not even being paid attention too. Those places are not for dogs. People bring them there for themselves not the dog
There are better ways to socialize a dog. Family, friends, neighbors.
Better places to bring your dog. Family, beach, forest preserves, walks, yard just to name a few.
Not a store to sit in the car or be tied to a pole outside. Which btw, all the ones I have seen tied to a pole while owners shop, all are nervous and scared. Also not any of the places I already mentioned. Those are not happy dogs to me. Those are owners satisfying their own needs.
Just walk a dog thru a crowded art show or swap meet. Then take that same dog and play with him in your yard or a park. The dog in the yard/park is a happy dog. You will see a big difference.
I pretty much disagree with everything you've said except the left in the cars (unless it's done Tom's way) or tied to a post which I've never seen someone do I shop stores that allow dogs if any are going with me to shop. And there are many that do, Maybe it's a small town thing.
 

KarenSoCal

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
5,204
Location (City and/or State)
Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
Just walk a dog thru a crowded art show or swap meet. Then take that same dog and play with him in your yard or a park. The dog in the yard/park is a happy dog. You will see a big difference.
You make some valid points, especially with the dodging people feet.

I think a large part of whether the dog is happy is dependent on whether he has been socialized to be in crowds prior to the event. I've had dogs who enjoyed a crowd. One of mine now would be terrified, since her previous owners did not socialize her.

I don't agree with you on all points, but that's OK! Thanks for giving your explanation.
 

Blackdog1714

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
4,096
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, VA
I use my bare feet as check system. If it the ground is to hot for me to walk on then I won't walk my dog. As far as stores my Chow loves going to Home Depot and giving kisses! As far as cars go unless you preplan only ride with them. Tom is professional and it is amazing how the vehicles are really set up for the dogs!
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
40,473
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I use my bare feet as check system. If it the ground is to hot for me to walk on then I won't walk my dog. As far as stores my Chow loves going to Home Depot and giving kisses! As far as cars go unless you preplan only ride with them. Tom is professional and it is amazing how the vehicles are really set up for the dogs!
The dogs and puppies lost to heat in a vehicle I spoke of earlier were also professional. Professional dog handlers for show dogs. Their Van's were set up to purposely be able to leave dogs/puppies in the van while not being shown at the moment. The vehicle/AC failed. Stuff like this can happen to anyone. Anyone except those who never leaves a dog in a vehicle alone.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
40,473
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
You make some valid points, especially with the dodging people feet.

I think a large part of whether the dog is happy is dependent on whether he has been socialized to be in crowds prior to the event. I've had dogs who enjoyed a crowd. One of mine now would be terrified, since her previous owners did not socialize her.

I don't agree with you on all points, but that's OK! Thanks for giving your explanation.
There are always going to be exceptions. I can only tell you what I have seen and what I feel. I have had many many dogs over the years. Bred, raised and showed some. Worked in mostly areas that involved dogs. I just don't see the point or the happy on the part of the dog in those situations.
I agree though, we can disagree 😁
 

Blackdog1714

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
4,096
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, VA
My Chow is show stock and here breeder Karen Tracy of Liontamer/Pazzaz had a few dogs in Westminster. My Chow girl decided for me that there would be no showing her-23 minutes to full carsickness! I carry a full bag of cleanup supplies in all my cars. Also since my Newfie is so big at 165 pounds he does not car ride in summer unless the car is pre-cooled before he gets in. Over heating in big dogs comes on too quickly and is so deadly I take no chances with him. Wellington sir you will always have my respect even if we disagree, because I do not know it all and am willing to learn!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
54,477
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
There are always going to be exceptions. I can only tell you what I have seen and what I feel. I have had many many dogs over the years. Bred, raised and showed some. Worked in mostly areas that involved dogs. I just don't see the point or the happy on the part of the dog in those situations.
I agree though, we can disagree 😁
This is a dilemma. There is no right or wrong here, just different opinions on a matter. I'd like to share an example not related to dogs, and then relate it back to our dog conversation.

There is a married couple who are master falconers and have been working with Harris' hawks for decades. They wrote a giant book where they shared their vast knowledge and personal experience with all things Harris' hawk called "The Harris's Hawk Revolution". We falconers affectionately refer to their book as "the Harris' hawk bible". One of the most interesting features in the book is the death chapter. They've compiled a list of all the ways HHs and other raptors have killed themselves or been killed over all of their years. They've got nearly one thousand cases in the book, and they've seen many more since its publication almost 10 years ago. Most of these deaths happen while out hunting. They get electrocuted on power poles, cut themselves in half on barbed wire fences, hit by cars, killed by other wild predators, killed by dogs, carbon monoxide poisoning in the back of pick up trucks, shot by morons, stepped on by cows, killed by stinging insects, the list is endless and surprising. All of this data is even broken down into percentages. The vast majority of these deaths could have been prevented if the falconer had left his/her trained raptor at home in the safety of its mew, and not taken it out hunting. The question always asked is: What kind of life is that? The nearly unanimous answer is a variation of: Its no life at all for a raptor.

Now to my point: Life is risky. There is risk in staying home and not living life too. How many pet dog die at home from poisoning, fire, electrocution, fighting with other dogs, snake bite... Again another endless and surprising list. Taking a dog out into public also has risks. We need to learn about those risks and take steps to minimize them, just as we do at home.

I don't agree with your thoughts about dogs and crowds. Any "normal" dog that has had some training and socializing will be perfectly happy and comfortable in a large crowd. You know that I do this on a regular basis with all sorts of dogs. Both finished trained movie dogs, as well as young dogs that belong to clients that are in their early stages of training and socialization. I literally take a variety of dogs through airports, security lines, and on planes. I take them to parades, festivals, crowded parks, malls, Home Depot, Walmart... essentially any where I go. I've never had a problem with anyone stepping on my dog's feet. I do that myself when I'm at home with them. Its never happened out in public. Hot pavement? I use Blackdog's method or an infrared temp gun for that. That is an easy problem to assess and avoid. Just look for shaded areas for the dog to stand in and keep them moving over the hotter areas.

Air conditioners in cars failing? I think the rarity of that makes it an invalid argument for your case. How often does that happen? I bet it happens less often than dogs burning up in house fires at home or getting struck by lighting. In 25 years of keeping dogs in cars with the AC running almost daily, I have never had one fail. On the other hand, I've never had my house burn down either. I did have one AC failure years ago, but it happened while I was driving. Its was a new vehicle and I had no dogs in the car with me at the time. When dogs are left in cars with the AC running, we simply check them frequently. Anyone can experiment with this to learn more. Put a thermometer in there and run the AC for a while, with no dog, of course. Shut the engine off and close the door. Check the thermometer every five minutes or so to see what the temp is doing. You will see how fast the temp rises to an unsafe level in YOUR car at a given temperature in your area. This will tell a person how often to check, and that is what we do on the film sets. I and everyone in my business have been doing this for decades and no one has lost a dog yet.

A person could make the same argument for people leaving their homes. We are much more likely to be robbed, murdered, hit by a car, assaulted, injured, etc... out in public than we are at home. Should people stay in and not go out in public too? Living life comes with risk. Both for people and dogs. My choice is to live life, not hide at home from it. I firmly believe that the lives of my animals are enriched by their excursions out into the dangerous world too. I don't agree with the advice to leave your animal at home because something might happen to it out in the world. Something might happen to it when home alone too. When the animal is with me I can supervise, evaluate, assess and take steps to protect them. Ever heard the term "barn sour" or "cage sour". Its what happens when a social animal isn't socialized enough. I choose the risks out in public so the animals can live a fun fulfilling life, verses a life of boredom and solitude at home without me. We can all agree to not leave a dog in a hot car, but I can't agree with not taking a dog out in public because of the possibility of the AC in the car failing. That would fall under the heading of "freak accident" in my book.

You COMPLETELY left out the danger of wayward zombies when out in public!
IMG_9527.JPG
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
40,473
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
This is a dilemma. There is no right or wrong here, just different opinions on a matter. I'd like to share an example not related to dogs, and then relate it back to our dog conversation.

There is a married couple who are master falconers and have been working with Harris' hawks for decades. They wrote a giant book where they shared their vast knowledge and personal experience with all things Harris' hawk called "The Harris's Hawk Revolution". We falconers affectionately refer to their book as "the Harris' hawk bible". One of the most interesting features in the book is the death chapter. They've compiled a list of all the ways HHs and other raptors have killed themselves or been killed over all of their years. They've got nearly one thousand cases in the book, and they've seen many more since its publication almost 10 years ago. Most of these deaths happen while out hunting. They get electrocuted on power poles, cut themselves in half on barbed wire fences, hit by cars, killed by other wild predators, killed by dogs, carbon monoxide poisoning in the back of pick up trucks, shot by morons, stepped on by cows, killed by stinging insects, the list is endless and surprising. All of this data is even broken down into percentages. The vast majority of these deaths could have been prevented if the falconer had left his/her trained raptor at home in the safety of its mew, and not taken it out hunting. The question always asked is: What kind of life is that? The nearly unanimous answer is a variation of: Its no life at all for a raptor.

Now to my point: Life is risky. There is risk in staying home and not living life too. How many pet dog die at home from poisoning, fire, electrocution, fighting with other dogs, snake bite... Again another endless and surprising list. Taking a dog out into public also has risks. We need to learn about those risks and take steps to minimize them, just as we do at home.

I don't agree with your thoughts about dogs and crowds. Any "normal" dog that has had some training and socializing will be perfectly happy and comfortable in a large crowd. You know that I do this on a regular basis with all sorts of dogs. Both finished trained movie dogs, as well as young dogs that belong to clients that are in their early stages of training and socialization. I literally take a variety of dogs through airports, security lines, and on planes. I take them to parades, festivals, crowded parks, malls, Home Depot, Walmart... essentially any where I go. I've never had a problem with anyone stepping on my dog's feet. I do that myself when I'm at home with them. Its never happened out in public. Hot pavement? I use Blackdog's method or an infrared temp gun for that. That is an easy problem to assess and avoid. Just look for shaded areas for the dog to stand in and keep them moving over the hotter areas.

Air conditioners in cars failing? I think the rarity of that makes it an invalid argument for your case. How often does that happen? I bet it happens less often than dogs burning up in house fires at home or getting struck by lighting. In 25 years of keeping dogs in cars with the AC running almost daily, I have never had one fail. On the other hand, I've never had my house burn down either. I did have one AC failure years ago, but it happened while I was driving. Its was a new vehicle and I had no dogs in the car with me at the time. When dogs are left in cars with the AC running, we simply check them frequently. Anyone can experiment with this to learn more. Put a thermometer in there and run the AC for a while, with no dog, of course. Shut the engine off and close the door. Check the thermometer every five minutes or so to see what the temp is doing. You will see how fast the temp rises to an unsafe level in YOUR car at a given temperature in your area. This will tell a person how often to check, and that is what we do on the film sets. I and everyone in my business have been doing this for decades and no one has lost a dog yet.

A person could make the same argument for people leaving their homes. We are much more likely to be robbed, murdered, hit by a car, assaulted, injured, etc... out in public than we are at home. Should people stay in and not go out in public too? Living life comes with risk. Both for people and dogs. My choice is to live life, not hide at home from it. I firmly believe that the lives of my animals are enriched by their excursions out into the dangerous world too. I don't agree with the advice to leave your animal at home because something might happen to it out in the world. Something might happen to it when home alone too. When the animal is with me I can supervise, evaluate, assess and take steps to protect them. Ever heard the term "barn sour" or "cage sour". Its what happens when a social animal isn't socialized enough. I choose the risks out in public so the animals can live a fun fulfilling life, verses a life of boredom and solitude at home without me. We can all agree to not leave a dog in a hot car, but I can't agree with not taking a dog out in public because of the possibility of the AC in the car failing. That would fall under the heading of "freak accident" in my book.

You COMPLETELY left out the danger of wayward zombies when out in public!
View attachment 327515
We will have to agree to disagree. However, the big difference in my opinion is this. Most people bringing their dogs out into the public places I mentioned, have no real education about dogs. It's a pet they picked and not much more education has gone into it.
Your job, show dogs, and service dogs all require extensive socialization and knowledge of the owners/handlers. That makes a big difference.
The average family dog should too but don't get it and in my experience of seeing these dogs, where I don't believe they should be, I see fear and discomfort, not happy, glad to be there dog.
Btw, I have no real problem with stores, as they usually are not packed in like cattle like art shows, etc are. I have a problrm with stores though, if ya leaving the dog in the car. The average person, more then not, think a few cracked open windows are enough.
 
Last edited:

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
89,044
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
The dogs and puppies lost to heat in a vehicle I spoke of earlier were also professional. Professional dog handlers for show dogs. Their Van's were set up to purposely be able to leave dogs/puppies in the van while not being shown at the moment. The vehicle/AC failed. Stuff like this can happen to anyone. Anyone except those who never leaves a dog in a vehicle alone.
Two human kids, at different times this year , left in cars and died.
 

Blackdog1714

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
4,096
Location (City and/or State)
Richmond, VA
We will have to agree to disagree. However, the big difference in my opinion is this. Most people bringing their dogs out into the public places I mentioned, have no real education about dogs. It's a pet they picked and not much more education has gone into it.
Your job, show dogs, and service dogs all require extensive socialization.
The average family dog should too but don't get it and in my experience of seeing these dogs, where I don't believe they should be, I see fear and discomfort, not happy, glad to be there dog.
Btw, I have no real problem with stores, as they usually are not packed in like cattle like art shows, etc are. I have a problrm with stores though, if ya leaving the dog in the car. The average person, more then not, think a few cracked open windows are enough.
Well spoken sir! I cannot stand someone that brings a dog into public that is not well socialized and you get screamed at for wanting to pet it! My Newf and my Chow are very well socialized and enjoy people although I do warn people of the dangers of petting a Newf. I bring a towel to help them if they dare. Also both do well on leashes since a lot of people do not want to meet my dogs or interact with them so it is my responsibility to control them. Responsibility and Civility are in very short supply now so tread carefully, but I ain't staying locked in!
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
89,044
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
It was 112°F here yesterday and supposed to be there again today.

I made a big mistake with Misty. When she was a pup and small enough to manhandle I should have taken her places in the truck. She 's too big now and she won't jump in on her own. When I open the garage door she runs the other way - deathly afraid of going bye bye. It cuts out the trips to the vet, though.
 

queen koopa

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
741
Location (City and/or State)
Las Vegas Nevada
My dogs are “home dogs” we live on an acre. It was 115 here yesterday and the 1 day of the week my sister and I both work so had to leave the dogs out for 5 hours. Set their pool out under the patio and gave them multiple ice waters then proceeded to check them on the cameras. My 2 old dogs were upset about being left, my 4 yr old pit got zoomies a couple of times, dug up my mint and then laid in the “off limits” garden bed. Guess it’s not too hot for zoomies. And it seems he chose to dig for cool temps instead of the provided pool just like Koopa!
 

Maro2Bear

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
12,415
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
My dogs are “home dogs” we live on an acre. It was 115 here yesterday and the 1 day of the week my sister and I both work so had to leave the dogs out for 5 hours. Set their pool out under the patio and gave them multiple ice waters then proceeded to check them on the cameras. My 2 old dogs were upset about being left, my 4 yr old pit got zoomies a couple of times, dug up my mint and then laid in the “off limits” garden bed. Guess it’s not too hot for zoomies. And it seems he chose to dig for cool temps instead of the provided pool just like Koopa!

Zoomies?
 
TortoiseSupply.com

New Posts

Top