The Reptile Community tear's itself apart

naturalman91

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so lately i've been meeting more and more people that are in the reptile community with all different type's of reptiles and one thing i've noticed is there seems to be a lot of bashing and hating on people for doing things a certain way even if it works for them with proven results and i don't understand why

so does anyone want to take a guess at why this is? it's a little irritating because it's normally " my way is right and no other way" type of conversations i hear
 

lisa127

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I don't know why. I just don't share everything with people. My reptiles are usually rescues. If i see an improvement after a few months I know what I'm doing is working and that's what's important. My redfoot for example has improved tons in the last 7 months and grown a lot. His temps, humidity, uvb, and size of enclosure is spot on. His substrate, however, would be a big debate here and in groups. But it works for him and it works for me and that's what's important.
 

wellington

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I think it's because the way they have been doing it has been the way for sooooo many years they just don't think there really is a new or better way. Kinda an ego thing. They have been into it so long, they are sure if there was something better, they would have thought of it or hear of it long ago. Another reason I think, they just don't believe what they read on a forum.
I ran in to a guy, manager at a pet store chain with both the attitudes I listed. Has sulcatas and snakes. Doesn't believe humidity plays that big of a role in pyramiding. I tried the best I could, but he then chimed in with you cant believe what people are saying on a forum. I even told him about Tom and that he shows proof and well, I don't think I convinced him of anything. I told him to look on the forum, hopefully he does and opens his mind to changes
 

wellington

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I don't know why. I just don't share everything with people. My reptiles are usually rescues. If i see an improvement after a few months I know what I'm doing is working and that's what's important. My redfoot for example has improved tons in the last 7 months and grown a lot. His temps, humidity, uvb, and size of enclosure is spot on. His substrate, however, would be a big debate here and in groups. But it works for him and it works for me and that's what's important.
Not trying to debate you or question you, but I think some people say the same thing about what they are doing. It works. The bigger picture is not only is it working, but are they thriving. That's another problem I think people have. If the animal is living, eating, grazing, etc, they think they are doing good, not realizing that the animal is not thriving.
Again, don't take this as a reference towards you and what you may be doing. It sounds like yours is doing good and thriving as its improving.
 

lisa127

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Not trying to debate you or question you, but I think some people say the same thing about what they are doing. It works. The bigger picture is not only is it working, but are they thriving. That's another problem I think people have. If the animal is living, eating, grazing, etc, they think they are doing good, not realizing that the animal is not thriving.
Again, don't take this as a reference towards you and what you may be doing. It sounds like yours is doing good and thriving as its improving.
That's what I was implying.....thriving. when I said if a rescue improves a lot and grows well in a few months time you're doing something right! By improves, i figured that implied thrives.
 

lisa127

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I think it's because the way they have been doing it has been the way for sooooo many years they just don't think there really is a new or better way. Kinda an ego thing. They have been into it so long, they are sure if there was something better, they would have thought of it or hear of it long ago. Another reason I think, they just don't believe what they read on a forum.
I ran in to a guy, manager at a pet store chain with both the attitudes I listed. Has sulcatas and snakes. Doesn't believe humidity plays that big of a role in pyramiding. I tried the best I could, but he then chimed in with you cant believe what people are saying on a forum. I even told him about Tom and that he shows proof and well, I don't think I convinced him of anything. I told him to look on the forum, hopefully he does and opens his mind to changes
Another way to look at it.....he was asking about people thinking their way is the only right way. It's possible that the person being debated with is thinking the same thing, no? (Not directed at you personally of course)
 

wellington

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That's what I was implying.....thriving. when I said if a rescue improves a lot and grows well in a few months time you're doing something right! By improves, i figured that implied thrives.
That's why I said this was not towards you. Just what you said, others will use some of the same words, but they don't consider thriving, just if the animal is acting fairly normal, and growing, then they think all is well, and won't open up to better ways, because they think their tort is doing good, not realizing they are not thriving
 

wellington

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Another way to look at it.....he was asking about people thinking their way is the only right way. It's possible that the person being debated with is thinking the same thing, no? (Not directed at you personally of course)
Absolutely and there lies one if not the reason things have taken so long to change and improve. That is also why, I like seeing proof before I just change something.
 

lisa127

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Absolutely and there lies one if not the reason things have taken so long to change and improve. That is also why, I like seeing proof before I just change something.
Right. And we are all learning as we go and doing the best we can. Really....none of us wants to harm our animals and we need to keep that in mind. And be kind to each other!
 

dmmj

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I guess it all depends on how you broach the subject. I'm doing it right you're doing wrong na-na-na, probably does not work too well.
 

lisa127

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I also think it's most important to get environmental parameters correct and the rest can be considered what works best in that situation. For instance, I stated above with my redfoot about his temps and humidity being spot on. His enclosure ranges throughout the 80s and humidity averages out to 70% (ranges from 60 to 82 depending on time of day). But I don't use the substrates others do. Does it matter that I'm not using damp soil or cypress if I'm achieving the correct humidity? Some use foggers, some don't see the need. As long as you are providing humidity that's what's important.
 

naturalman91

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all good points. i've just come to notice it can even be as simple as talking with someone about a animal and then saying oh i've read this what do you think about it that can set someone off or some try to defend they're way of doing it and when you ask if they'd be willing to teach you some things or talk to you more about it they get offended

i haven't had these problems to much in the tortoise world but mostly in snakes and lizards, lizard's in particular seem to be a big hot button of your wrong im right
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I just read about some test or something, I can't find it now, and of course I can't remember details, but I know somebody else here saw it, about too much heat causing pyramiding.???
 

naturalman91

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I just read about some test or something, I can't find it now, and of course I can't remember details, but I know somebody else here saw it, about too much heat causing pyramiding.???

i saw that where it was talking about over night heat?
 

dmmj

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being a part of the California turtle and Tortoise Club (Foothill chapter in the hiz-house)I mostly get people coming up to me asking for advice on how to care for the tortoises and turtles.
 

naturalman91

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being a part of the California turtle and Tortoise Club (Foothill chapter in the hiz-house)I mostly get people coming up to me asking for advice on how to care for the tortoises and turtles.
but im sure you gladly share knowledge or point them towards the correct sources right?
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I just read an article on line that said that too much heat will cause pyramiding just as bad as no humidity. I can't for the life of me find it in this crap machine, but I wonder if it has any validity?
I'm fostering Pansy, she's 2 months old now and in her habitat it's 95 ambient degrees, and hotter under the light. 90% humidity. In the night the CHE keeps it at about 98 degrees and she is never in a humid hide, she's always in the farthest corner from the heat. So I cocked the lid so it's only half covered, it's 80 degrees with 80% humidity and now every night she's sleeps in a small plastic container filled with damp moss. Darn, I hate taking care of Sulcata babies and trying to get it right. Give me Gopherus agassizii babies over Sulcata babies any time. One time I had 20 desert babies to head start and that was not nearly the trouble as this one 2 month old Sulcata...:) Well, that's my comment for the day, talk at you tomorrow....adios

oh PS lisa127
I do much more than different substrate that most members would disapprove of, but I figure it's my business as long as the tort is healthy fed right and heated, it's MY business how I raise them. But mostly the advice I give on here is the acceptable crap. Altho more and more I find myself saying, "this is how I do it and it's not necessarily accepted stuff by all members".
And for you naysayers, no that's not how Bob died. I did every and more right for him, he was killed by that Vet and a lawyer has already accepted my money. 2 different Vets put him in a private vehicle and sent him home while he was deep under anesthesia and not breathing right. I sure wish @deadheadvet, would comment on just that part. I'm trying to find out if it's morally or actually legally wrong.
 
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Yvonne G

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I think it's an ego trip for most of those who have a hard time accepting anything new. They've done it their way for so long they feel that now they are the experts.

When I first started out back in the dark ages, there was no internet and I had to gain my knowledge from the printed word. I joined a few national clubs, one of which was National Turtle and Tortoise (club? society?). They were based in Arizona and put out a monthly newsletter that was...wait for it....MAILED to your house.

One of the things that they said over and again in that newsletter was that there are no experts in tortoise-keeping. That we are learning new things about tortoises all the time and to keep an open mind. I've always carried that thought with me. So when I started hearing about the hot and moist method rather than the hot and dry method, I was open to it, even though I had been caring for turtles and tortoises for a very, very long time and considered myself pretty knowledgeable on the subject.

You're never too old to learn (and, believe me folks, I'm old!).
 

Merrick

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Their are many reasons for this. One most people in our community want what is best for the animal so they will fight for other people to do the same as they are because they believe it to be correct. Two their is not enough scientific data to back up most claims (not enough field research of natural environment parameters also not enough lab research done on things like diet or the effects of humidity). Three most people are not opened minded for change or alternatives.
 

harris

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.

When I first started out back in the dark ages, there was no internet and I had to gain my knowledge from the printed word. I joined a few national clubs, one of which was National Turtle and Tortoise (club? society?). They were based in Arizona and put out a monthly newsletter that was...wait for it....MAILED to your house.

Right on. Pulling something like that out of your mailbox as opposed to pulling it up on a computer screen is so much more satisfying to me. Weird, I suppose, to most.....
 
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