The Different Races of Redfoot Tortoise

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Madkins007

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Depending on who you talk to, there are up to 7 'groups' of Red-foots.

Functionally, I think there are probably basically 5, with some regional color variation within the 5. This is based on Vinke's South American Tortoises, Pritchard's Turtles of Venezuela, and so forth.

First, we can usually divide the Northerns from the Southerns by the plastron- a mostly light plastron is usually a Northerner, a mostly dark plastron is usually a Southerner.

North-eastern (E. Venezuela to French Guiana): the 'typical' Red-foot. 30-35cm adult length, black carapace background, constricted waist on adult male, yellow/orange/red colors on limbs.

North-western (Panama, Colombia, W. Venezuela): Shell background is more coffee/grey, almost no red coloration on limbs.

South-eastern (East Brazil): This region seems to be home to 2 variants- the 'red' and the 'yellow'.

'Reds' are the 'Cherry Head' variant. These MAY average a bit smaller (22-28cm), but many specimans are a bit larger than average. Reds tend to have very dark necks with bright red or orange colors on it. They tend to show shell mottling more often than others, and seem to have a slightly bulbous red-tip nose (the Rudolph Sign). They rarely show the male wasp-waist, but usually have a distinct hooked scale below the front elbows- almost a 'spur'.

'Yellows' look like North-easterns with yellow coloration and a dark plastron.

South-western (Paraguay and Bolivia): Big- 35-45cm- tortoises, little to no wasp-waist, 'spur' like the South-eastern Reds.


Within the above 5 groups, I think there are some local color variations- but a lot of these variations seem to disappear as the tortoises get older.
***********************************************************

UPDATE March 25th, 2011: Based on DNA research (VARGAS-RAMIREZ, Mario; Maran, Jerome; Fritz, Uwe. "Red- and yellow-footed tortoises, Chelonoidis carbonaria and C. denticulata (Reptilia: Testudines: Testudinidae), in South American savannahs and forests: do their phylogeographies reflect distinct habitats?"), I've modified the types of Red-foots a little:

(Names in CAPS are the terms used in the above article. Names in (parentheses) are the names I use to try to clarify things)

NORTHWESTERN (Panamanian)- Panama and west of the Andes in Venezuela
NORTHERN (Columbian)- Columbia, south of Venezuela. This was not a group that has been discussed widely as a separate group before. They seem to look a lot like the next group.
NORTHWESTERN (Guyanan)- The 'Guyanan Climatic Zone' of mid-Venezuela to French Guiana and bits of northern Brazil
EASTERN (Brazilian)- The 'Cherry-heads' and there yellow-headed but otherwise identical kin from the central-to southern part of Eastern Brazil
SOUTHERN (Gran Chaco)- Paraguay and Bolivia

Research has been showing that a.) these groups have a significant difference in their DNA and that there are barriers of some sorts between the groups to help keep them apart, and b.) that one of the barriers is the Amazonian Basin Rain Forest- Yellow-foots travel freely throughout the Basin, but Red-foots do not enter it to any great extent- the DNA does not drift from group to group.

Not much different than what I posted earlier. The big changes are:
- combine Cherry-heads and the 'yellow heads' as just being normal color variants of Brazilians.
- breaking Columbians into their own group, and
- yet another researcher using some slightly different names for the groups. It would be nice to have agreed-upon names for these groups.
 

Dud

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thx madkins007 this is really helpful.. but i would be great if u could post the pic.. so it will be easier to identify it .. thx
 

Madkins007

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? I thought I posted this as a response to question, not as a separate thread?

As for photos- all of mine are North-eastern variants (the 'common' Red-foot). I'll see if I can find some images online to link to, though.
 

egyptiandan

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All my fault :p I copied and made it it's own thread and stickied it. It was definately worthy. Douglas (elegans) has posted Chacoan redfoots on the forum. There are plenty of Cherryhead pictures. Just need Colombian and Brazilian pictures.

Danny
 

Madkins007

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Thanks, Danny! I was worried I hit a wrong button somewhere.

I cannot find any really good photos of North-westerns, or Brazilian 'Yellows'. A lot that MAY be those, but without plastrons and such, it is a guess.
 

Neohippy

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Madkins007 said:
Thanks, Danny! I was worried I hit a wrong button somewhere.

I cannot find any really good photos of North-westerns, or Brazilian 'Yellows'. A lot that MAY be those, but without plastrons and such, it is a guess.

Perhaps people should start posting top an bottom pics and other people can try their hand at figuring out which area the tort's ancestors came from.

Cordelia bottom shot
img1066u.jpg

Top shot
img1068y.jpg

Wet top shot
img1069a.jpg

Mug shot for good measure
img1067j.jpg


Woodrow bottom shot.
img1070o.jpg

Woodrow top shot.
img1073.jpg

img1072t.jpg

And one eyed mugshot for good measure.
img1071k.jpg



Dunno if it will help at all to have pics up, but I know for one, I am curious about these little tort's history. If anyone could take a shot at ID on these two, I'd appreciate it.

Also, post 'em if you got 'em. Let's get pics and ID's to spread the knowledge here maybe.
 

Madkins007

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Both of them have the lighter plastron of the Northern group. The first has the classic darker carapace of the North-eastern. The second COULD be a North-western, or just a light North-easterner.
 

egyptiandan

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Lezsolt your little one is also a Northern form Redfoot. :D

Danny
 

Bryan

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egyptiandan said:
Lezsolt your little one is also a Northern form Redfoot. :D

Danny

Yup, specifically it could be a Venezuelan (I'm thinking this because I've seen Venezuelan's offered with light colored shells like that), or maybe not. Definitely a Northern though. Very nice tort, congrats!
 

matt41gb

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I'm wondering about my two females, they both have no red, only yellow on legs and head. Any idea where they're from? I was guessing Colombian?

100_1308.jpg

100_1093-1.jpg

100_1286.jpg
 

Madkins007

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matt41gb said:
I'm wondering about my two females, they both have no red, only yellow on legs and head. Any idea where they're from? I was guessing Colombian?

As I have said before, I ain't an expert on ID'ing them, I just summed up my research into it- but most reports describe adult torts from Columbia and the other north-west areas as having shells that are 'grey', 'coffee', or otherwise 'not black'. I would guess your guys come from east of the Andes- Eastern Venezuela to French Guiana... but it is just a guess.
 

fishtanker

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I love your female with almost no scute coloration. Very unique. I'd be interested in hatchlings if you ever hatch any.
 

matt41gb

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I'll take some pictures tomorrow of their plastrons. I'm getting a nice male to breed with them soon. I wonder if the hatchlings will have any color. Both females almost have no red. I'll definitely let you know if I get any babies.
 

t_mclellan

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If you PM me with photo's of Top, Bottom, Side, Front, Rear. I might be able to get you an almost positive (kinda, sorta) Local & maybe locate a male.
 

matt41gb

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Ok, here are some pictures of the tortoise and plastron shots.

30 something year old red-foot (no red)
100_1622.jpg

100_1623.jpg


Red-foot in her teens (no red, some orange on legs)
100_1620.jpg

100_1621.jpg


Young male red-foot (no red)
100_1624.jpg

100_1625.jpg


Young female red-foot (no red)
100_1626.jpg

100_1627.jpg



-Matt
 

N2TORTS

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Madkins007 said:
Depending on who you talk to, there are up to 7 'groups' of Red-foots.

So what do you think... about these two...both 10"
BIGREDA3.jpg

BIGREDB1.jpg
NOW WHAT ABOT HIM? He has red in his carapace!
ELVISSUPERRED2010.jpg

Thanks for your inputs~:)
 
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