Testudo g. marokkensis?

[tomn]

someone is selling Testudo g. marokkensis on kingsnake

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=755430

are these really Testudo g. marokkensis?
never heard of them can someone tell me a little about them?
thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Tom:

I know you've been here since before Christmas, but I don't believe I've ever welcomed you to our forum.

We're so glad to have you here!!

If anyone can tell you the answer to your question, Danny can. He'll be here soon.

 

[andrew71888]

Wow i have heard of these lil guys but have not seen one. They look awesome.

 

[egyptiandan]

No matter what he says they aren't T.g.marokkensis. The subspecies is from Morocco and was just named in 2004. Kelly (stells) has some pictures on the forum of her adults and hatchlings.
I might though have to post a couple of them.

Danny

 

[Tim/Robin]

What is it that tells you the ones pictured are not T. g m?

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, and if not, what are they?

 

[dreadyA]

I want to know as well. This place is 25 minutes away from where i live. I actually took a look at their torts for sale and saw a redfoot that looked like a desert tortoise hatchling with suspicious red scales...

 

[stells]

Could somebody ask the seller for pics of the adults.... i would but might look abit daft with me being in the UK...

They just look like Ibera to me....

 

[terracolson]

you cant email.. they require you to call!

i am looking at the site now
__________________________________________________________
'MAROKKENSIS' GREEK TORTOISE MALE #3
(Testudo g. marokkensis)


Please do not tell me I don't know what I have. I do know. This identification is verified by Russ Gurley's friend and this site: http://www.graeca-home.de/GraecaTggFrame.htm.

(to translate site) http://translate.google.com/#


The breeder of these animals is from SoCal. He is an 'old skool' guy that has had his adult tortoises since the 1980's. Morocco was exporting in the 1980's.

These babies are over 2 inches and growing well. Temp sexed at 90+ for the first half of incubation. Sold as pair or males.
$300 PAIR

This specimen is available at our Montclair, CA location.

To place an order or ask questions please call our store at
909.447.5103.

Due to spam and heavy email volume we are no longer able to process emailed inquiries. Please utilize the telephone to access our friendly and knowledgable staff. Thank you for your patience and understanding.This species is also available at the following locations:

 

[GBtortoises]

I know the guy advertisting these tortoises (as many of us here probably do). He's gotten quite a reputation lately for mis-labeling many of the Hermann's and Gracea that he is selling as something that they are not. When asked for verification he usually cannot come up with any and will not usually give out the names of the people that he got the names from. Last time I asked him he said: "That's what the breeder told me." I know he's not that gulible! I think the main reason that he stopped receiving Emails was that he was getting bombared with people disputing the names and locations of the tortoises that had for for sale on his site. I cannot speak for the validity of the above mentioned subspecies because Middle Eastern and North African species are not my forte. But I have some experience with Northern Mediterranean species. I have seen many Northern Mediterranean Ibera, Testudo gracea ibera labeled as more rare subspecies, mostly from from North Africa. The photos of the tortoises in the ads were clearly and undisputably Ibera. Which are not found anywhere on the African continent. I've also seen textbook Eastern Hermann's Testudo hermanni boettgeri advertised by this person as an array of different, supposedly rare Eastern Hermann's from various locations, some that don't even have populations of Hermann's at all!

I understand that the guy is in the business to make money from the sale of animals. I have no problem with that. But I do have a problem with deceiving potential buyers by attempting to make them believe that you're selling some rare subspecies in order to charge them double or more. Deception is no way to make a buck in my book.

The bottom line is "buyer beware"! Find out as much about the animal and it's true origins if you can. Ask around this site and others. Chances are, someone in the tortoise community somewhere probably knows who the breeder really is. Maybe (just maybe) you can get the truth from him as long as he wasn't the one that started the deception in the first place! Always ask for photos, lots of photos!
Keep in mind that as a potential buyer in this situation you might be paying 2 or 3 times more than the subspecies is actually worth somewhere else! Do the homework.

It's too bad because I've known this guy for quite a few years and he didn't start out this way.

 

[-EJ]

I need to say this... you 'purists'... create this market.

I've never heard of this species/subspecies but I think I have a female which I'd like to pair up... not kidding. I trade 2 male golden greeks for it.

You experts totally amaze me.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

So Danny - what kind are these then?