Terra-Cotta Water Dishes

[ZenHerper]

...Gabby rarely goes into his water dish. I soak him twice a week and he gets juicy greens. Could that be why?

Depends in part on the species, and then the individual's interest in self-soaking.

 

[Michael henry]

Well I used a plastic hot water pan that I plugged the hole up on. They destroyed the metal ones. Then I went to a 2x4 and 3/4” plywood box almost the size of a palette. It was lined with a shower pan. I had one with tile but it did not take long for that one to get trashed. At the end I lined the box with linoleum and screwed the ends down between wood strips. The linoleum held up the best and it was textured so they could walk in it. It was ez to clean out and never did leak. If I get a big one again the water will be the same except it I’ll have a raised wood floor with the water set level in the floor. With a 3-4 inch open drain to the out side. That’s my 2 cents

 

[PSLIMO]

It's reasonable just suggest that porous surfaces like terracotta have more surface area to harbor more bacteria and fungi.

Does anyone on this forum know what strains of bacteria or fungi are harmful to tortoises and would more surface area for those to grow cause a concern?

 

[KarenSoCal]

This is true and totally fair. Also very easy to answer: You make a change when you see a problem. When the old way isn't working, or when you aren't getting the result you want.

Not the case here in any way. Frankly, I don't remember terra cotta saucers being recommended in the old days either. I used to use reptile shop bowls.

Similarly: "Sulcatas should be fed lots of grass." Another old way that works, and is not a problem in any way. The old ways that need to be changed are the old ways that cause pyramiding, death through dehydration, and malnutrition.

Absolutely true...all of it. Except this one line bothers me: "You make a change when you see a problem."

Standing on shore, watching the tsunami approach, is not the time to say "I think I'll learn to swim".

 

[Tom]

Absolutely true...all of it. Except this one line bothers me: "You make a change when you see a problem."

Standing on shore, watching the tsunami approach, is not the time to say "I think I'll learn to swim".

There is no tsunami approaching. That is the point. If there were one coming, we'd get early warning from the systems that are in place for that. Also, knowing how to swim won't save you in a tsunami anyway.

Terra cotta saucers are not dangerous to tortoises. Not in any way. Quite the opposite.

 

[Snoopy’s mom]

It seems like the terra cotta saucers they are selling now leak. I fill them up with water and then they are empty in the morning.

Duh, I thought it was just me. Back to Home Depot - again.

 

[Marshall77]

Hi All,

I had very interesting conversation at my local pet store about water dishes and how the terra-cotta ones could pose health issues for our torts. Is it worth looking into to see if there's any merit in the concerns?

Could they be the source of some infections or diseases? I'll agree with the porous nature of terra-cotta there's plenty of space for bacteria and fungi to settle into.

If you think about it, you wouldn't eat or drink from a porous terra-cotta dish or glass that's not glazed so why are we using porous saucers for our tortoises.

I dunno, maybe plastic ones are a better alternative.

Comments?

Phil

As a fish keeper I don't believe bacteria care if the surface is smooth, rough a sponge ,glass it grows on all of it. I would say proper sanitation of the dishes is important than what kind of a dish it is.

 

[AgataP]

I put mine in a dishwasher every two days, or every day if needed. Wait for them to dry out and they good to go. If I want a clean one right away pour hot water and they are fine.

I mean how long you are keeping your dishes in the enclosure without cleaning anyways?!

Enclosures are humid warm boxes so I am sure the bacteria either way loves there. However I don’t see a reason not to clean the food dish. Just like dogs bowl. There is no way I don’t wash dishes after Mazuri ??

Also I do not trust bowls from pet stores they are way to deep, shaped in a weird way and I would simply be concerned about my tortoise getting hurt or drowning because of the odd shapes.

I am really glad that they make huge terra cotta dishes for the future. ?

 

[Tom]

...There is no way I don’t wash dishes after Mazuri ??

You reminded me of a good point! I don't feed Mazuri in my terra cotta saucers, and I don't feed Mazuri indoors at all in most cases. Its just too messy. They smear it all over themselves and all over the substrate. I only feed Mazuri in their outdoor enclosures and on plastic butter tub type lids, and then I soak the babies afterwards before going back into their indoor enclosures.

 

[AgataP]

You reminded me of a good point! I don't feed Mazuri in my terra cotta saucers, and I don't feed Mazuri indoors at all in most cases. Its just too messy. They smear it all over themselves and all over the substrate. I only feed Mazuri in their outdoor enclosures and on plastic butter tub type lids, and then I soak the babies afterwards before going back into their indoor enclosures.

Ha Mazuri in the enclosure is pretty much a no go here to be honest. I feed Herbie outside the enclosure with Mazuri. Bath After. Luckily he eats Mazuri right from hand and all mess is avoided.
Guess who told me not to feed Mazuri in the enclosure - Tom ??
I made that mistake one time. Nope no more!!

 

[Yossarian]

For an animal that regularly defecates on its own food and will still eat it, that regularly defecates where it sleeps, and generally that gets its crap all over itself, I dont think the water dish is too much of an issue.

 

[Blackdog1714]

My leopard soaks, ?, pees& eats in its Terra Cota saucer. I know cause I clean it out daily. I don't know maybe the bacteria would help what ever sort of stew my leopard is making. Thanks Tom for saying no Mazuri inside, I was concerned that I was just imagining the rotten baby diaper smell!

 

[JMM]

It's reasonable just suggest that porous surfaces like terracotta have more surface area to harbor more bacteria and fungi.

Does anyone on this forum know what strains of bacteria or fungi are harmful to tortoises and would more surface area for those to grow cause a concern?

From an infection control standpoint, you are very astute to be questioning terra cotta vs. plastic. While organisms can grown on virtually all surfaces, the porosity of terra cotta does make it a wonderful surface for growth of bacteria and algae and establishment of biofilms. As others have indicated, cleanliness is crucial. To prevent surface biofilms, such dishes should be cleaned daily as others are doing. A gentle scrub with a soft brush would be beneficial. After cleaning, make sure they dry thoroughly. Tom's method of letting them dry in the sun is particularly good--many organisms cannot survive being dried out and the dish gets very warm which is also beneficial. A huge advantage of the terra cotta (beyond the rough texture that provides traction to torts) is that it can be heated in the oven to kill off the vast majority of microbes that might be embedded in the porous clay. It's important to make sure the dish is dry before doing this. Periodically heating your dishes in the oven would be a good practice. While plastic is not porous, as others have pointed out, it lacks traction and may leach nasty substances, especially as the plastic ages. Plastic obviously can't be heated in an oven, so to get it really clean requires 10% bleach or virkon or an activated hydrogen peroxide cleaner--only the activated hydrogen peroxide cleaners are really safe for food dishes and utensils.

While routine use as a food or water bowl is unlikely to result in growth of harmful organisms, organisms that the torts harbor may potentially get onto the dishes and/or grow. The torts that are using the dishes are adapted to these organisms. Introduction of new animals though can cause issues....Routine cleaning and periodic decontamination (i.e. heating terra cotta) is a good practice.

 

[AgataP]

Well my tort is getting soaks and that’s where he does his business. He sits in his dish in the water but no ? till he is out. Potty trained ??

 

[Marshall77]

From an infection control standpoint, you are very astute to be questioning terra cotta vs. plastic. While organisms can grown on virtually all surfaces, the porosity of terra cotta does make it a wonderful surface for growth of bacteria and algae and establishment of biofilms. As others have indicated, cleanliness is crucial. To prevent surface biofilms, such dishes should be cleaned daily as others are doing. A gentle scrub with a soft brush would be beneficial. After cleaning, make sure they dry thoroughly. Tom's method of letting them dry in the sun is particularly good--many organisms cannot survive being dried out and the dish gets very warm which is also beneficial. A huge advantage of the terra cotta (beyond the rough texture that provides traction to torts) is that it can be heated in the oven to kill off the vast majority of microbes that might be embedded in the porous clay. It's important to make sure the dish is dry before doing this. Periodically heating your dishes in the oven would be a good practice. While plastic is not porous, as others have pointed out, it lacks traction and may leach nasty substances, especially as the plastic ages. Plastic obviously can't be heated in an oven, so to get it really clean requires 10% bleach or virkon or an activated hydrogen peroxide cleaner--only the activated hydrogen peroxide cleaners are really safe for food dishes and utensils.

While routine use as a food or water bowl is unlikely to result in growth of harmful organisms, organisms that the torts harbor may potentially get onto the dishes and/or grow. The torts that are using the dishes are adapted to these organisms. Introduction of new animals though can cause issues....Routine cleaning and periodic decontamination (i.e. heating terra cotta) is a good practice.

My favorite reply very thorough. You might break a dish occasionally putting it in the oven but I suspect mostly this would be because it's not completely dry as you say. A large enough air bubble would do it too but those get weeded out at the factory when they go for the firing process. Fortunately terra cotta is easily replaced, so having spares on hand is not only practical but easy.

 

[mastershake]

if the water temp exceeds 175deg then you can sanitize them. steam generally is not enough with terra cotta though as you need it to penetrate deeper into the material. lowes has very large like 2ft thick plastic water dishes in the garden dept we tend to use here for drinking water. and terra cotta is not meant to be water proof as its a porous material and even when glazed sometimes pin holes exists. we swap out dishes daily and they get sanitized in between use.

 

[Marshall77]

if the water temp exceeds 175deg then you can sanitize them. steam generally is not enough with terra cotta though as you need it to penetrate deeper into the material. lowes has very large like 2ft thick plastic water dishes in the garden dept we tend to use here for drinking water. and terra cotta is not meant to be water proof as its a porous material and even when glazed sometimes pin holes exists. we swap out dishes daily and they get sanitized in between use.

Yes terra cotta can let water through some more than others but I wouldn't trust glazed terra-cotta at all. It's been a long time since I was in high school but when I was one of my jobs as the teacher's aide of the art class was to approve the glaze for the project. We had both food safe glaze and not food safe glazes.
Knowing that my concern would be. Why would anyone spend more money for a food safe glaze for the bottom of a terra cotta pot? They may all be made food save now, but until that is a confirmed fact I wouldn't trust them.

 

[Sue Ann]

Hi Jan,

They weren't trying to sell me anything.

What they're suggesting is an unglazed terracotta dish being porous is very hard to sanitize compared to a glazed one that you can wipe clean.

It's a fair argument that if we don't eat or drink out of unglazed terracotta why are we using them for our animals.

I'm thinking they make plastic pot saucers at Home Depot and might be a better alternative. Same shape, same size only a non-porous surface.

My Sulcata would just tip it over. Eat it, etc. Terracotta works great.

 

[Mitortuga]

You do understand the concept of soap & water or "sanitize" setting on your dishwasher, don't you? Frankly, I see enough on " Bar Rescue" kitchens to make me rethink ever eating out again.

Let me guess, the pet store sanitizes all of those rock water dishes before putting them on their shelves. Or maybe their dish sales are off...

Hi All,

I had very interesting conversation at my local pet store about water dishes and how the terra-cotta ones could pose health issues for our torts. Is it worth looking into to see if there's any merit in the concerns?

Could they be the source of some infections or diseases? I'll agree with the porous nature of terra-cotta there's plenty of space for bacteria and fungi to settle into.

If you think about it, you wouldn't eat or drink from a porous terra-cotta dish or glass that's not glazed so why are we using porous saucers for our tortoises.

I dunno, maybe plastic ones are a better alternative.

Comments?

Phil

When you think about it, it makes sense. I have a stone I clean often where I yes toss his meal on he has a store bought one also my daughter gave to me. But I read that the stone helps the beak?
You could also use a shallow bowl or plate.