Telling differences

[T-P]

How does everyone tell the differences between a greek and a greek ibera?
Because both are different!

 

[Crazy1]

How does everyone tell the differences between a greek and a greek ibera?
Because both are different!

TP, I believe a Greek and a Greek ibera can be one in the same. Confusing I know. I hope the following helps a little.

Genus species subspecies
Testudo graeca anamurensis (also known as T. ibera anamurensis) - Anamur Tortoise
Testudo graeca cyrenicae - Libyan Greek Tortoise
Testudo graeca graeca - "Greek" Tortoise
Testudo graeca ibera - Mediterranean Spur Thigh Tortoise / Greek Tortoise
Testudo graeca terrestris - Golden Greek Tortoise - Specialty Gallery

These are all called Greek tortoises. It is my understanding that they got the name Greek because it was thought that the shell looked like a Greek Mosaic. They are from different areas

Here is a site that show the pictures of the different Testudo species and subspecies. http://www.chelonia.org/testudo_gallery.htm

I also have a book that better described how to differentiate between different subspecies. I will get the name and send it to you.

 

[Crazy1]

Per the "Mediterranean Tortoises" book by Brian Pursall

Claws:
T. g. graeca and T. g. ibera have claws that shade from brownish at their base to parchment color at their tips.

Body scale coloration:
T. g. graeca scales are mostly parchment –colored, but closer examination of the scales on the shoulders normally reveals that they are actually mottled yellow and brown. T. g. ibera scales are parchment colored.

Carapace Melanin Patterns:T. g. graeca (west) the “C” is broken up or partly broken up in the form of dots, particularly on the costal scutes.
T. g. graeca (east): the “C” is broken up or partly broken up in the form of radial lines and dots.
T. g. ibera (west) basic pattern
T. g. ibera (east) the “C: is broken up to form radial lines.

Carapace Background color:
T. g. graeca there generally is a slight orange tinge to the background carapace color. All other subspecies have a parchment colored background


“The differences in subspecies are difficult and takes practice and not clear-cut and it is easy to be wrong!”

Remember this is just one persons (book) opinion. And there is a word of warning in the book that “ the only way to be sure about the area of a subspecies is to carry out DNA analysis on tortoises from all the various areas”.

I still get confused. And I hope someone with more knowledge can point out the subtle differences.

 

[Cam]

WOW! It would be so nice if they each had a different colored head or something else easy.

I was told our guy is either a greek terrestris or a greek antakyensis (because he his last vertebral scute is the widest).
That means he is most likely from Syria so I looked into their climate...lets see it was hot and dry with periods of really hot and really dry

I am waitin on that book. There is another comrehensive book I am going to ask for from Santa, it's a bit pricey:shy:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/Cam5Pictures/Calvin2006.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/Cam5Pictures/Calvin2002.jpg


Last 3 pics he is 3 baths later than above...we had the best time watching him chow down his organic greens and dandtlion greens

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/Cam5Pictures/CalvinCloseupShots004.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/Cam5Pictures/CalvinCloseupShots003.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/Cam5Pictures/CalvinCloseupShots002.jpg

 

[jlyoncc1]

Very handsome tort! Love the coloring.

 

[Cam]

Thanks, we think he's pretty good looking too

 

[Crazy1]

Thanks, we think he's pretty good looking too

And well you should he is beautiful-or should I say Handsome.
Those are some great Pictures of him.

 

[HermanniChris]

Greek ibera are nothing like T. graeca greaca. Although it can be quite hard to differentiate them at times, they are completely different animals. Testudo ibera are large animals, I have females just over 10". They are an extremely violent species and very very cold tolerant. Colroation is not a good way to identify them. They can come in several different color examples.

EgyptianDan has created a good thread on differentiating them here:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4640

Again however, there is an exception to every rule and you MUST keep this in mind when looking at any example of mediterranean tortoise.

There are ibera that are yellow to orange with strong black bars and borders, there are olive green ibera, completely black ibera, bright yellow specimens, marbled ones and even drab brown ones. It basically depends on location. Here are some photos of mine showing a somewhat wide variety of color schemes.

 

[HermanniChris]

Here is also a feeding photo with a few of them

 

[Cam]

WOW! Fantastic tortoises and fantastic pictures.

You could start a service, "Tortoise I.D." and charge a fee for all your info

Are the Ibera violent to each other or their keepers?

 

[HermanniChris]

Cam, they are violent to each other in many cases, either sex can be this way. I have had males charge at my feet on several occasions as well. They are in my opinion the best tortoise for personality. They're incredible animals. Females display territorial aggression towards each other when they are gravid or feeling cramped. They will ram each other for hours. Males can inflict serious bite wounds on the back legs of females and other males during fighting and breeding. I had a hatchling ibera that would repeatedly ram it's food dish only taking a few seconds to stop and eat here and there.


Great tortoises.

 

[Cam]

Intense!
sounds like the 5th graders at our son's school...

 

[T-P]

very nice thankyou everyone.

Can a greek and ibera go together?

 

[HermanniChris]

I do not recommend it at all, ibera are far too agressive for graeca and injuries most likely will happen. Greaca also tend to carry heavy parasitic loads since most are fresh imports. Cross breeding is also a possibilty and that will only add to the mass confusion surrounding these animals.

 

[Cam]

I do not recommend it at all, ibera are far too agressive for graeca and injuries most likely will happen. Greaca also tend to carry heavy parasitic loads since most are fresh imports. Cross breeding is also a possibilty and that will only add to the mass confusion surrounding these animals.

All very good points!

 

[T-P]

oh right i see.

thanks! i was just curious, im happy with my hermanns.
I wont be getting any other tortoises til next summer.
even then that will just be a horsefield as ive got a spare cage now.

 

[Henry-flash]

Tay,

I think you are getting confused with the whole 'greek' and 'greek ibera' thing. Greek is used (mainly in america, no offense meant here)as a term for all tortoise under the Testudo graeca group.

Testudo graeca ibera are then a sub-species within Testudo graeca with Testudo graeca graeca being another of the sub-species. Basically all of these are 'greeks'. T.g.graeca are from Northern Africa, so greek isn't really logical anyway <ducks>

Peter

 

[Cam]

Nice breakdown, no need to duck