Swollen eyes after hibernation

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Update:

When I took Mork and Mindy out of brumation on Saturday, they stayed mostly near the hot spot. Mindy still tends to stay over there (not necessarily a bad sign, as they both do that a lot, and as I said she looks good and has a healthy appetite). But this morning I found Mork on the cool side of the pen, and he has stayed there for much of the day. He even appears to be trying to climb out. That seems like a good sign, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm tempted to think that this is good, because it means he is becoming active again, like a male Russian tortoise coming out of brumation should. However, could this be a bad thing? Maybe he doesn't like it in there, and is desperate to find someplace more comfortable? I don't know.

I haven't raised the ambient temp in there to 80*F yet, so right now their pens are at their usual settings: 70*F ambient, with a 95*F hot spot. If he is active on the cool end, does that mean he is feeling good, or is avoiding the basking area a bad sign when a tortoise has a runny nose? What do you think?

 

[ascott]

I am happy to hear he is active...and just so you know, the reason I say to give him a follow up warm eater soak is that sometimes a tortoise does not like new things and while the baby food soaks are helpful sometimes a tortoise wont take in the water with the mix...like since they don't know what it is they may not take drinks but their body is soaking in the fluid..so if you follow up with plain warm water he will recognize the plain water and will likely drink..so kinda covering both says and an ultra great exposure to much more soak time...I say I would dry them off is to assure they will not get the wind chill if he is fighting off the runny nose....so I do not believe you have done any harm at all

I would really increase the ambient temp to make sure temp does not fall below 80..when a tortoise is ailing the best thing to do is to give their immune system as much support as possible and providing increased temp does that....

---

Also..if after a week to ten days you don't see him drying out some then you can always take him to the vet to get you set up for baytril injections....you know?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I am happy to hear he is active...and just so you know, the reason I say to give him a follow up warm eater soak is that sometimes a tortoise does not like new things and while the baby food soaks are helpful sometimes a tortoise wont take in the water with the mix...like since they don't know what it is they may not take drinks but their body is soaking in the fluid..so if you follow up with plain warm water he will recognize the plain water and will likely drink..so kinda covering both says and an ultra great exposure to much more soak time...I say I would dry them off is to assure they will not get the wind chill if he is fighting off the runny nose....so I do not believe you have done any harm at all

I would really increase the ambient temp to make sure temp does not fall below 80..when a tortoise is ailing the best thing to do is to give their immune system as much support as possible and providing increased temp does that....

---

Also..if after a week to ten days you don't see him drying out some then you can always take him to the vet to get you set up for baytril injections....you know?

---

Gotcha. Okay, I will increase the ambient temperature so they don't get even a slight chill. As you know, healthy Russians like their night temps to go into the 60s, but I will not let that happen as long as they are feeling ill. And yes, if things do not improve, I will take Mork, and maybe even Mindy as well, to the vet.

BTW - Turns out the reason Mork was trying to climb the walls was he was hungry! I should've known, because that's what he does in the growing season, too. This morning before I went to work, I bathed both Mork and Mindy, and gave them big breakfasts consisting of spring mix, Mazuri, and Grassland Food sprinkled with calcium, vitamin D3, vitamin A, and beta-carotene. They both chowed down, but didn't finish them, so I assumed that even if they got hungry again later (which happens all the time), they would have some leftovers to nibble on. Well, it turns out Mindy ate almost all of that, and Mork finished it all and still wanted more, which was why he was so active on the cool end of the pen: poor guy was trying to find more food! Well, no worries, because he got it, and now both of them are basking contentedly.

Thanks again for the advice. Looks like they're getting better everyday, but I'll keep tending them and let you know how it goes. And as I said, if the TLC approach doesn't work, then I will take them to a herp vet.

 

[ascott]

Awesome....and by the way, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the names Mork and Mindy....lol

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Is he relatively thin or is he near what he was when he went in? If he has this situation and you say that the other tort has a slight symptom similar then perhaps he went in a little deficient you know?

Yes, he did come out a little light. Not completely emaciated or anything, but noticeably lighter. Meanwhile, Mindy did not feel particularly light, so either she didn't lose as much weight, or she had more fat reserves and/or was more hydrated going in. I didn't weigh them this week, because I didn't want to stress them, but it does seem like he lost more weight than she did, or else started winter lighter to begin with.

I think that may be something males are more prone to. I think they spend a lot of energy running around, perhaps looking for females to mate with, or males to fight with, and spend less time eating (even if they're subadults). Meanwhile, the females are happy to forage almost as much as they want, except when mating or laying eggs. So, although they do put their energy into egg production, maybe they go into brumation with more fat reserves than the males. Could it be that males are more vulnerable during brumation for that reason? Maybe I have to be more careful that Mork eats enough before winter, and if not, maybe I should shorten or eliminate his brumation period. It's possible.

I did weigh them during the growing season, and just before hibernation. I also computed Donohue's Index to see if they were of the minimum weight before letting them brumate:

Mork
Date: 11/1/2011
SCL: 10.6 cm
Weight: 330 g
Minimum Donohue weight: 227 g
Percent of minimum: 145%

Mindy
Date: 11/1/2011
SCL: 10.4 cm
Weight: 335 g
Minimum Donohue weight: 215 g
Percent of minimum: 156%

So, even though they were both above the minimum weight according to the Donohue formula, Mindy was a bit heavier (both in relative and absolute terms), so maybe that was enough to make a difference. Maybe she had more fat reserves to resist avitaminosis, and/or maybe she was more hydrated and could resist infection better.

The "trouble" with applying the Donohue formula to Russian tortoises is that they have a roundish carapace, so it's easy to over-estimate their condition. Maybe a Russian tortoise with an index of 156% is okay (barely), but one at 145% (like Mork) is below the borderline. Like I said, they both had some pudge, so I thought they were in good condition to brumate, but maybe not. In the wild these guys brumate for 6 months, but here 4 months was almost too much for Mindy, and it was a bit too much for Mork. Maybe that's because they're so young, or maybe their diet is not as nourishing as I thought. Well, hopefully next year they won't try to brumate again, but if they do, I'll only put them in for 2 months ... 3 months tops.

Awesome....and by the way, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the names Mork and Mindy....lol

Thanks! Cute, isn't it?

Cheers,
Gaddy

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

"Well, I'm all better now. Thanks, everyone! Now, I'm just working on getting back to my fighting weight.

Love,
Mork"

 

[ascott]

Ahhhh...he looks magnificent...!!! and I was thinking about him yesterday, so happy to see the update