Sulcata toroise not eating and soft shell

Dandi

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Hello everyone. I realize I can find the answer to these problems in the forums as many others most likely have had similar illness with their tortoise. But I am asking if someone could please help me break down the technical terms and help me help my guy Ragnar and just lay it out simply so I can help him now instead of doing more research into substrates or what wattage is more appropriate. I understand he needs high calcium foods, like which foods for example? I'm reading alot of intelligent technical terms but not much description how to actually do these things. I'll give as much description as I can I just dont want him to die on me. I just found this site today so I apologize for the " need help now" approach but after I help Ragnar I'll go through the more specific threads of how I can improve his habitat, just please if you could make it in as simple terms as possible.
 

Maro2Bear

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Greetings.

See if this Care Sheet helps. If you follow @Tom ’s guide, you’re golden.


Enclosure, humidity, lighting, substrate, soaking, food all important & all covered in Toms guide.
 

Dandi

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Hello everyone. I realize I can find the answer to these problems in the forums as many others most likely have had similar illness with their tortoise. But I am asking if someone could please help me break down the technical terms and help me help my guy Ragnar and just lay it out simply so I can help him now instead of doing more research into substrates or what wattage is more appropriate. I understand he needs high calcium foods, like which foods for example? I'm reading alot of intelligent technical terms but not much description how to actually do these things. I'll give as much description as I can I just dont want him to die on me. I just found this site today so I apologize for the " need help now" approach but after I help Ragnar I'll go through the more specific threads of how I can improve his habitat, just please if you could make it in as simple terms as possible.
I've provided his set up so far (I realize there is alot more i can probably add for his health). The sand and bulbs are was recommended to me from the previous owner and the pet store owner I had talked with. I'm brand new to adding vitamins or powder to food, right now I been giving him Romaine lettuce, I was told to give young tortoises until they get bigger and can start adding variety. I hope you can see the info. on the bulbs I try to follow 10-12 hours of heated light and over night the red bulb to simulate night time heat. If the overall enclosure doesn't look suitable is there like.....an all in one kit I could buy that would have everything I need?

20200216_084615.jpg20200216_084634.jpg20200216_084713.jpg20200216_085009.jpg20200216_085024.jpg
 

Maggie3fan

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Welcome...No sand use fine grade orchid bark (no pine) or cypress mulch or coir, sand can cause impaction and you can't creat humidity with sand...I fed my Sulcata babies Spring Mix with better weeds and stuff added. I also use a product called Minor-All as a supplement on his food. Read and study Tom's advice...you can't can't go wrong with it...
 

Dandi

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Like spring mix from the produce section at walmart? This is what is confusing, the sand I bought is for reptiles but is appearing not to be good for him. I hate thinking I'm getting my pet things made for him but then finding out it's not in his best interest
 

Dandi

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Welcome...No sand use fine grade orchid bark (no pine) or cypress mulch or coir, sand can cause impaction and you can't creat humidity with sand...I fed my Sulcata babies Spring Mix with better weeds and stuff added. I also use a product called Minor-All as a supplement on his food. Read and study Tom's advice...you can't can't go wrong with it...
What kind of cage/container do you recommend. I am using a standard fish tank with a mesh screen lid on top for his lights trying to conform it into a habitat but is there a better option maybe one that would keep the warmth in for him.
 

Yvonne G

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I've provided his set up so far (I realize there is alot more i can probably add for his health). The sand and bulbs are was recommended to me from the previous owner and the pet store owner I had talked with. I'm brand new to adding vitamins or powder to food, right now I been giving him Romaine lettuce, I was told to give young tortoises until they get bigger and can start adding variety. I hope you can see the info. on the bulbs I try to follow 10-12 hours of heated light and over night the red bulb to simulate night time heat. If the overall enclosure doesn't look suitable is there like.....an all in one kit I could buy that would have everything I need?

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Hm-m-m-m-m. . . Yes, I see. It's good you've com to us for help, because what you've been told is pretty much against what we tell people.
SAND causes impaction, and as they walk through their food, they distribute sand on it and then they eat it
(My substrate of choice is fir bark, sold as "Orchid Bark", but many of our members use coco coir or cypress mulch)
REPTILE BOWLS are not meant for tortoises. Tortoises have stiff, non-bendable bodies. In order to get into and out of those bowls the baby has to over balance, sometimes tipping over backwards in the water. Also, take a look at your food bowl. How do you expect that little hard-bodied baby to get the food?
DUAL FIXTURE BULB I like to have the UVB light at one end of the enclosure, or in the center, and the night heat at the opposite end. Also, the dual fixture domes aren't big enough to allow the heat to disperse. For day UVB I use a tube type fluorescent bulb and for heat I use a radiant heat panel. One can buy the fluorescent bulb and fixture at lightyourreptiles.com, or the bulb there and the fixture at Walmart.
ExoTerra day bulb and red bulb Your baby needs UVB during the day and that bulb you have doesn't provide it. Also, the red bulb for night time has been known to cause some tortoises to eat the substrate. The red makes the substrate look edible.

Orchid Bark:
Orchid Bark (1).jpg

Coco Coir:

coco coir.jpg

If you want to use a Ceramic Heat Emitter, then you need a ceramic base fixture with a 10 or 12" dome:

ceramic heat emitter.jpgceramic clamp light.jpg

Fluorescent bulb and fixture:

T-5 fluorescent bulb.jpgFluorescent UVB light a.jpg

Radiant heat panel:

radiant-heat-panel-28w-rbi.jpg

There are many ways to provide the environment your baby needs to grow and thrive, but these are what I have found useful in my tortoise-keeping.
 

Maggie3fan

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What kind of cage/container do you recommend. I am using a standard fish tank with a mesh screen lid on top for his lights trying to conform it into a habitat but is there a better option maybe one that would keep the warmth in for him.

Screens don't allow the UVB rays to come thru, so that's bad. Read Tom's advice on habitats as my Sulcata are bigger and outside. I don't have any baby enclousers to show you. But I will stress, that he needs different things for you to make him healthy. Please read Tom's advice...and Yvonne's advice is great...she always comes thru.
 

Yvonne G

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What kind of cage/container do you recommend. I am using a standard fish tank with a mesh screen lid on top for his lights trying to conform it into a habitat but is there a better option maybe one that would keep the warmth in for him.
The screen top filters out the good UVB rays, so it's not recommended. The tank is good though because it will be easy to cover it to keep the warm, moist air inside.
 

Yvonne G

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I just realized your subject line says your baby has a soft shell and he's not eating. I need to address those for you:

All baby tortoise shell have a bit of 'give' to them. They don't really firm up for 6 months to a year. But the fact he's not eating MIGHT mean he's suffering from metabolic bone disease (MBD), caused by no UVB and calcium. So we've got to get this baby eating.

First of all, get rid of that food dish. The sides are too high for him. place the food on the tile or piece of broken cement. Start soaking this baby in 50/50 Gerber baby food strained carrots/warm water, daily for about 30-45 minutes. You can put the soaking bowl back into the enclosure so the light can keep it warm during the soak (but not directly under the light). Ask the previous owner what foods the baby is used to seeing in his food dish and offer that food to him. It may help if you chop it up into tiny pieces. After he's soaked in the carrot mixture for three days or so, he should look like he wants to eat. If you want to use Spring Mix, pick out the spinach. A soft baby doesn't need to eat a food that binds calcium to it. Try things like endive, escarole, romaine, and chop it up small.

Please let us know if any of this works and he starts eating.

(Calcium needs the UVB either from the sun or a good UVB light in order to work its magic inside the body. A soft shell MIGHT indicate he needs the calcium and UVB)
 

Yvonne G

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Sorry Maggie - Looks like I was typing the same time as you.
 

Dandi

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Yes it's in Arizona. I'm trying to get all this down to do some shopping. I'm just a bit confused because the red light I have is a UV light, but also indent want him eating the floor either. And if it's not good to use a screen top how am I suppose to put any lights on top? AMD Yvonne, you said you like to put the UVB bulb on the side and the night heat on the other, but how do you do this when the bulb you're using is a tube type and stretches across the whole enclosure? Did I just buy equipment (for reptiles) but not for my tortoise?

20200216_105053.jpg
 

Dandi

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Okay so he has been sunbathing and soaking in warm water for the last hour, I need to go buy the baby food. Do I get these plant mulch,bark,and coir at the garden section of homedepot? I feel like I wasted money cause those dome fixtures were not cheap and I thought it would keep him warm with a 100w bulb
 

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Maggie3fan

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Yvonne did not mean for you to feed him on the floor. You can go to Home Depot and buy 1 piece of tile, then put it in his enclosure and feed him on that. We are not trying to confuse you...please keep on asking questions...
 

Yvonne G

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Yes it's in Arizona. I'm trying to get all this down to do some shopping. I'm just a bit confused because the red light I have is a UV light, but also indent want him eating the floor either. And if it's not good to use a screen top how am I suppose to put any lights on top? AMD Yvonne, you said you like to put the UVB bulb on the side and the night heat on the other, but how do you do this when the bulb you're using is a tube type and stretches across the whole enclosure? Did I just buy equipment (for reptiles) but not for my tortoise?
No, red lights do not provide UVB. Red lights are only used to heat the enclosure, no UVB. I feed my tortoises on a tile or a piece of broken cement, not on the floor. You hang the lights either from a hook on the ceiling or from a light stand. I also said I like the day bulb "either on one side or in the middle". Naturally, the tube type bulb would hang in the center. Yes, I'm afraid what you bought is not suitable for little tortoises. Happens all the time to new tortoise keepers. Those darned pet stores are just out to make a buck.
 

Tom

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Here is all the care info and tips in one place. I don't mean it to sound discouraging, but you need to know that you were sold all the wrong stuff. The tank is much too small, wrong bulbs, wrong bowls wrong substrate, etc... It might help to just forget all that stuff and start fresh with the right stuff. Read through these three threads and the lighting info after, and then hit us with any questions that came up while you were reading. We want to help you. Part of helping is to tell you what is not right with your set up. I know this is upsetting and frustrating, but lets get past that and get your tortoise in the right conditions and lighting ASAP.


There are four elements to heating and lighting:
  1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. You can mount a fixture on the ceiling, or hang a dome lamp from the ceiling. Go lower or higher wattage if this makes the enclosure too hot or not warm enough. Do not use "spot" bulbs, mercury vapor bulbs or halogen bulbs because these bulbs are overly desiccating and cause pyramiding even in good living conditions.
  2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species like sulcatas or leopards. I like this thermostat: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller. Put the probe in the coolest corner away from all heating elements. You may need more than one heating element to spread the heat out for a given enclosure.
  3. Light. I use florescent tubes for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. I've been using LEDs lately and they are great, and run cooler than a florescent. This can be set on the same timer as the basking bulb.
  4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. I like the ZooMed 10.0 HO, and the Arcadia 12% HO. Which type will depend on mounting height. It helps to have a UV meter to test and see what your bulb is actually putting out at your mounting height. Plexi-glass or screen tops will filter out some or all of the UV produced by your bulb.
 

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