Substrate Question (another 1 )

[Dud]

guys im wondering can i use only some kinda "reptile carpet" to keep a tortoise.. would that be healthy for them ?

i've been reading from many sources that a tortoise should have a "microclimate" .. therefor a substrate(soil , sand , moss , peat) would be needed..


back here in my country (indonesia).. ALMOST ALL keepers and sellers keep all their tortoise using reptile carpet.. with the fixtures only a UVB light and heating bulb..


and almost ALL of them recommend to use a newspaper or reptile carpet..
and there hv been some who succeed by using this way of keeping


there;s a myth back here.. that if u keep a tortoise using a loose substrate.. it would lead them to death because of the impaction (swallow accidently when eating)

well its a contradict based on what i read on the website.. and i just want the best for my torts

oh yea are there any other "loose substrate" other than playsand.. i could barely find any safe playsand.. --" .. can i use red dirt ?


thx




PS: my radiata still live in a small terarria using newspaper as a substrate..

Chris..

 

[Stazz]

I keep my tortoise on organic soil and she's never tried to eat it and I've never had a problem
I think a reptile carpet is okay, but some torts like to bury themselves when they go to sleep, and it's a way of keeping warm, or getting away from too much heat. I personally would recommend soil or soil/playsand mix, but that's just me.

 

[Dud]

I keep my tortoise on organic soil and she's never tried to eat it and I've never had a problem
I think a reptile carpet is okay, but some torts like to bury themselves when they go to sleep, and it's a way of keeping warm, or getting away from too much heat. I personally would recommend soil or soil/playsand mix, but that's just me.

thx stazz... i think imma go with soil .. and a spaghnum in their hides .. playsand r almost impossible to find in my country lols

 

[Stazz]

Sounds perfect I use organic soil, so its the healthiest for your tort! No worries about the playsand, Tallula is the most happy with just her soil, its easy for her to bury AND is one of the best substrates to keep up humidity!

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Oh and I have sphagnum moss in the areas where Tallula likes to sleep, awesome for humidity and she LOVES sleeping on it, in it!

 

[Dud]

Sounds perfect I use organic soil, so its the healthiest for your tort! No worries about the playsand, Tallula is the most happy with just her soil, its easy for her to bury AND is one of the best substrates to keep up humidity!

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Oh and I have sphagnum moss in the areas where Tallula likes to sleep, awesome for humidity and she LOVES sleeping on it, in it!

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ok lols.. and ideas for the enclosure mate ? theres no one who sell a decent tortoise table here.. lols... and i dont have a lawn / garden.. i do have an empty balcony but it covered with tiles is it ok ?

for indoor housing.. really need ideas lols

 

[Stazz]

Well here's a pic of Tallula's enclosure, it's in our bedroom We built it from scratch ourselves, and my boyfriend designed it. I still have the plans if you want!

All you need is a few pieces of wood, some nails and hinges Oh and of course a hammer haha

 

[Dud]

Well here's a pic of Tallula's enclosure, it's in our bedroom We built it from scratch ourselves, and my boyfriend designed it. I still have the plans if you want!

All you need is a few pieces of wood, some nails and hinges Oh and of course a hammer haha

thats one great place for ur torts lols... how often do you change ur substrate ?


oh yea 1 question.. is it OK .. and would it be possible to raise a healthy tortoise only using a reptile carpet ?

 

[Stazz]

I change it every few months only ! Thats the beauty of the soil - If I can't see the poop, it aint there
I am not too sure how to anwer your question about the reptile carpet, I'm not an expert by any means hehe

 

[Dud]

I change it every few months only ! Thats the beauty of the soil - If I can't see the poop, it aint there
I am not too sure how to anwer your question about the reptile carpet, I'm not an expert by any means hehe

thx for ur INFO stazz.. i think im gonna made 1 tort box that looks like what u have there lols... what kinda wood r u using ?

 

[Stazz]

I'm actually not sure what type wood it is, someone else may give an answer to you as to what wood would be best. I will try find out soon what kind our wood is!

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Oh and you're very welcome Thats what we're here for!

 

[Crazy1]

Do not use pine or Cedar. Any hardwood would be fine. Make sure you seal it with a polyurathane then you can either line it with a shower curtain or with tile. I do not have a radiata and therefore am not sure of temps or humidity needs for them. Organic soil works well. Thats just one without pestisides or chemicals.
Reptile carpet and newspaper has and is still being used by some keepers. It is not the idea substrate for a tort. It can cause leg problems with some torts though it is made so that they can not eat it, there is small threads that come loose and can be swollowed. Besides it is just no a natural state for a tort. In the wild they do not have carpet. lol

 

[tortoisenerd]

I respectfully disagree with Robyn and think pine for the enclosure wood is ok. I did a lot of research as I wanted something other than plywood and cheaper than the expensive option at the home improvement store. It does not have the odor that cedar does (I wouldn't use cedar). It's mostly the contact with the substrate with aromatic oils that is the issue. My vet and several others here oked it for my enclosure and it's been fine for the tort. I used pine boards (18 in. wide), and plastic shower pan liner. So, he doesn't have direct contact with it in any way either. I sanded the boards, coated with water based polyurethane, nailed them together, taped down the nails flush, covered them with puddy, and put reinforcing brackets in at the corners and middle as it's a large long enclosure. I let the poly. dry for a few days to de-fume before putting in the liner.

Make sure to account for escape height, substrate, cage furnishings, etc. You probably need it higher than you think. If you are using pre-cut boards at a home improvement store, you are mostly stuck with the width but you can have them chop the ends as needed for the length for a price or free depending on the place. I drew up plans as to what we wanted to do working with what was available to minimize the amount of cuts. We didn't need to buy a saw.

For substrate you should spot clean daily if you can, and change as needed. With something you don't see the poops, you may want to change at least the top layer more often. With a moist substrate you will also be adding water to keep the moisture (some pour and then mix it up), so you can inspect more closely at that point.

There are some loose substrates that are prone to cause impaction (corn cobs, sand alone, etc), but the reason for a natural substrate is that it is digestible as well, and should not cause impaction. Of course if you see your tort eating mouthfuls of it you should reconsider! Also, feeding on a surface off the substrate is good. A large tile works great for keeping food away from substrate, and wears down the nails and beak.

Rubbermaid tubs are another enclosure option. Or, a stock tank. Lots of out of the box ideas (even a bookcase).

I think our enclosures should simulate the wild best we can, and reptile carpet does not. Agree with Robyn on that one.

 

[Dud]

I'm actually not sure what type wood it is, someone else may give an answer to you as to what wood would be best. I will try find out soon what kind our wood is!

---

Oh and you're very welcome Thats what we're here for!

---

thx stazz

Do not use pine or Cedar. Any hardwood would be fine. Make sure you seal it with a polyurathane then you can either line it with a shower curtain or with tile. I do not have a radiata and therefore am not sure of temps or humidity needs for them. Organic soil works well. Thats just one without pestisides or chemicals.
Reptile carpet and newspaper has and is still being used by some keepers. It is not the idea substrate for a tort. It can cause leg problems with some torts though it is made so that they can not eat it, there is small threads that come loose and can be swollowed. Besides it is just no a natural state for a tort. In the wild they do not have carpet. lol

thx for ur info i think imma go with organic soil

I respectfully disagree with Robyn and think pine for the enclosure wood is ok. I did a lot of research as I wanted something other than plywood and cheaper than the expensive option at the home improvement store. It does not have the odor that cedar does (I wouldn't use cedar). It's mostly the contact with the substrate with aromatic oils that is the issue. My vet and several others here oked it for my enclosure and it's been fine for the tort. I used pine boards (18 in. wide), and plastic shower pan liner. So, he doesn't have direct contact with it in any way either. I sanded the boards, coated with water based polyurethane, nailed them together, taped down the nails flush, covered them with puddy, and put reinforcing brackets in at the corners and middle as it's a large long enclosure. I let the poly. dry for a few days to de-fume before putting in the liner.

Make sure to account for escape height, substrate, cage furnishings, etc. You probably need it higher than you think. If you are using pre-cut boards at a home improvement store, you are mostly stuck with the width but you can have them chop the ends as needed for the length for a price or free depending on the place. I drew up plans as to what we wanted to do working with what was available to minimize the amount of cuts. We didn't need to buy a saw.

For substrate you should spot clean daily if you can, and change as needed. With something you don't see the poops, you may want to change at least the top layer more often. With a moist substrate you will also be adding water to keep the moisture (some pour and then mix it up), so you can inspect more closely at that point.

There are some loose substrates that are prone to cause impaction (corn cobs, sand alone, etc), but the reason for a natural substrate is that it is digestible as well, and should not cause impaction. Of course if you see your tort eating mouthfuls of it you should reconsider! Also, feeding on a surface off the substrate is good. A large tile works great for keeping food away from substrate, and wears down the nails and beak.

Rubbermaid tubs are another enclosure option. Or, a stock tank. Lots of out of the box ideas (even a bookcase).

I think our enclosures should simulate the wild best we can, and reptile carpet does not. Agree with Robyn on that one.

is there any way to make the poop to "degrade" naturally ? that would save me a lotta time lols

 

[tortoisenerd]

It's natural fertilizer.

Some torts do eat their poop so they are helping keep their enclosure clean too...

 

[Dud]

It's natural fertilizer.

Some torts do eat their poop so they are helping keep their enclosure clean too...

no i mean do they will automaticly degrade ? ??

 

[Seiryu]

My vet and several others here oked it for my enclosure and it's been fine for the tort. I used pine boards (18 in. wide), and plastic shower pan liner. So, he doesn't have direct contact with it in any way either. I sanded the boards, coated with water based polyurethane,

Definitely if you Polyurethaned it and it's sealed then Pine is fine. I used Pine with 3 coats of Polyurethane (Had to since humidity is always over 70% in my Basilisk enclosure). No issues in over 3 years for them and it can hurt my basilisk just as much as a tortoise.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

make sure you have proper ventilation, and that the polyurethane has finished off-gasing

 

[TopWarmachine]

I have heard from others in the forums that pine wood is OK for constructing an enclosure. I have not heard about using polyurethane to seal the wood though it sounds like a great idea however. Here are some pictures of my nearly finished enclosure and after reading about the polyurethane sealing, I was curious if I would be better off using it as well since the wood used is pine.

 

[Yvonne G]

Wow, topwarmachine! Nice job. I particularly like the little hiding place. When we use those half logs, the little guys tend to like to climb up on them then they fall off and land on their back. I'm torn between no liner or polyurethane sealing. I like the liner, however, I'm thinking you're going to have trouble keeping the substrate from going between the liner and the wood. It would probably be less of a headache if you just take it out and seal the wood. Either that or use a more flexible liner and staple it up higher to the sides all around.

Yvonne

 

[TopWarmachine]

The pictures I took were off of an Iphone so they are not very clear, but the liner that I have in there is all one piece. As for the substrate leaking through, I have a secondary acrylic liner underneath the gray shower pan liner so if anything does get through it shouldn't be a problem. The only openings in the liner are in the corners but they are smaller than the point of a pen. My main concern however is if the wood that is not covered will harm my tortoise due to the pine oils. The dimensions of the enclosure are 3 ft by 2 ft with 7 inch walls. The liner sits up about 5 inches and I plan to put in 2 to 3 inches of substrate.