substrate getting lodged in leg cavity

[risa123]

My box turtles bedding, Eco Earth coconut fiber substrate, keeps getting lodged in front of his back legs. When he walks, he just packs more and more in the hole. I used to have moss and cypress mulch mixed in with the Eco Earth, but I took it out because it was contributing to the compaction in his leg holes and I thought pieces of the mulch might be poky and painful when they get stuck in the cavity. I thought that would help, but the Eco Earth alone is still getting lodged in there. I am able to remove it with soaks and tweezers (very carefully!), but I have to remove in constantly or else it keeps building into a massive clump! Is there another substrate I should be using so this does not happen? His leg hole is quite large so I fear that whatever I use will get in there and that something like wood chips would just be more painful to have lodged in there. Is this even a big issue if the coconut substrate gets stuck in there? Thanks in advance!

 

[ZenHerper]

Are you keeping the substrate really damp? It should feel like he lives by a river bank. Dry or nearly-dry coir is very much like cement. You can mix in cypress mulch, which is soft and holds moisture well. If the water content of the substrate is good, it should just slide away as he moves. Hand pack new substrate down well so that burrows are easier to form and hold their shape.

A lot of boxie species like to swim, so a water feature he can get in and out of easily himself will help. The trays for paint rollers work really well.

 

[Tom]

My box turtles bedding, Eco Earth coconut fiber substrate, keeps getting lodged in front of his back legs. When he walks, he just packs more and more in the hole. I used to have moss and cypress mulch mixed in with the Eco Earth, but I took it out because it was contributing to the compaction in his leg holes and I thought pieces of the mulch might be poky and painful when they get stuck in the cavity. I thought that would help, but the Eco Earth alone is still getting lodged in there. I am able to remove it with soaks and tweezers (very carefully!), but I have to remove in constantly or else it keeps building into a massive clump! Is there another substrate I should be using so this does not happen? His leg hole is quite large so I fear that whatever I use will get in there and that something like wood chips would just be more painful to have lodged in there. Is this even a big issue if the coconut substrate gets stuck in there? Thanks in advance!

Coco coir needs to be firmly hand packed. After a couple of weeks it really settles in nicely. If you leave it loose, you get all sorts of problems and mess.

I prefer to use fine grade orchid bark and that is what I kept my box turtles on.

 

[jeff kushner]

I've read other folks having the same issues with the coconut fibers. Since I'm rather new here, what are the benefits of it over the Spanish moss I've been using?

 

[ZenHerper]

Spanish moss - like the air plant? Does it hold water long term? Or does it melt? Do you chop it down...?

Coir and Asian mosses (also sold in bricks) are moderately acidic and hold a lot of water. Sphagnum strands get tangled around legs easily; it can be used, but would have to be chopped up a bunch. Both are amenable to probiotic soil species and clean up crew crustaceans.

For adult turtles (tortoises graze moss and air plants, so no mosses for them) I favor a layer of packed coir mixed with bark chips topped with a good layer of Asian moss. All well wetted through. Seems like a most natural simulation of forest floor. Add potted plants and sterilized hardwood leaves and bark strips: all set to party.

 

[ZenHerper]

I like this moss brick:

EXO TERRA Forest Moss Tropical Terrarium Reptile Substrate, 7-qt, 2 count - Chewy.com

Buy Exo Terra Forest Moss Tropical Terrarium Reptile Substrate, 7-qt, 2 count at Chewy.com. FREE shipping and the BEST customer service!

www.chewy.com

Puffs up to a crazy-big volume (like coir bricks do), and is soft. Stems are very thin and far shorter than sphagnum. Can be re-wetted routinely (doesn't smell rotten), decays very slowly, spot-checking makes it last a long time. Holds its shape when used for flooded baby/youngster mosseries.

 

[risa123]

Are you keeping the substrate really damp? It should feel like he lives by a river bank. Dry or nearly-dry coir is very much like cement. You can mix in cypress mulch, which is soft and holds moisture well. If the water content of the substrate is good, it should just slide away as he moves. Hand pack new substrate down well so that burrows are easier to form and hold their shape.

A lot of boxie species like to swim, so a water feature he can get in and out of easily himself will help. The trays for paint rollers work really well.

I bet I have not been keeping it damp enough. I moistened it and packed it down, and can already see how less substrate will move into his leg cavities when he walks now. I bet his water will stay cleaner now too! Thank you, that is very helpful.

I used to have cypress mulch mixed in, but I found that the wood chunks were getting lodged into the leg cavity and they were harder to remove and I was scared they were poking his skin so I switched to just the coconut substrate. I bet now that I know to moisten and pack the substrate down, I might not have that problem with the mulch and could mix some more in with the coconut?

I also do have a water feature that he can soak in!

 

[risa123]

Coco coir needs to be firmly hand packed. After a couple of weeks it really settles in nicely. If you leave it loose, you get all sorts of problems and mess.

I prefer to use fine grade orchid bark and that is what I kept my box turtles on.

I have now moistened and hand packed the coconut substrate and can already see how that will help. Now the substrate does not move into his leg cavity when he walks like it did when it was loose. I bet this will also keep his water cleaner! Thank you, that is really helpful advice.

I am thinking some might still get in there when he burrows, but should be substantially less.

 

[ZenHerper]

I bet I have not been keeping it damp enough. I moistened it and packed it down, and can already see how less substrate will move into his leg cavities when he walks now. I bet his water will stay cleaner now too! Thank you, that is very helpful.

I used to have cypress mulch mixed in, but I found that the wood chunks were getting lodged into the leg cavity and they were harder to remove and I was scared they were poking his skin so I switched to just the coconut substrate. I bet now that I know to moisten and pack the substrate down, I might not have that problem with the mulch and could mix some more in with the coconut?

I also do have a water feature that he can soak in!

Yeah, totally experiment with mixing in cypress or asian moss with the coir (like a corner or side - that way you get to see what's going on without upending the entire environment)! Or with adding a layer of the moist mulch/moss on top of the coir. If it's wet enough, some turtles push through to the space between the upper and lower layers to chill out and don't drag too much "soil" around.

 

[Tom]

I've read other folks having the same issues with the coconut fibers. Since I'm rather new here, what are the benefits of it over the Spanish moss I've been using?

What species are you housing?

 

[jeff kushner]

That's the exact product I've been using...and it works well indoors for about 1 month or 6 weeks b4 needing to change it due to bottom layer decay. Holds a ton of water and mostly retains shape but for less time as Matilda gets bigger. LOL.


FYI- about a 2" slice expands with warm water to about the size of the average medium pot for the stove.....no I don't let Kerry know, she loves me and I want to keep it that way.

Almost missed you Tom, Matilda is a yearling eastern box turtle.

 

[ZenHerper]

That's the exact product I've been using...and it works well indoors for about 1 month or 6 weeks b4 needing to change it due to bottom layer decay. Holds a ton of water and mostly retains shape but for less time as Matilda gets bigger. LOL ...

Turts and torts are wee wreckers. =DD

Is she poo-and-peeing in it? That will alter your longevity. The moss itself turns brown and melts (not a safety issue) when chronically wet. Yeah, a month or two is reasonable with a Swampy mossery set up.