Sub species ID help

[rockfarm]

We have 2, pretty sure female, Greek tortoises, one a out 10 years old, one about 12 years old. They came from the same breeder, so I have to imagine they are the same sub-species, but I'm having a hard time determing which. Would appreciate any help. Ignore the labels - folks in another post helped correct the sexing ?

 

[zovick]

We have 2, pretty sure female, Greek tortoises, one a out 10 years old, one about 12 years old. They came from the same breeder, so I have to imagine they are the same sub-species, but I'm having a hard time determing which. Would appreciate any help. Ignore the labels - folks in another post helped correct the sexing ?

Have you asked the breeder for this info? It seems he/she would have the exact info which would be preferable to a guess from members of this forum.

 

[rockfarm]

I bought them in 2009 and don't have the breeder's name or contact info at this point. We were told they were male and female at the time and hadn't thought much of it again. Then a neighbor recently adopted a Russian male that makes it very clear he is a male. That brought me to my first forum post about their sexing and posters there redirected me to this thread for help with subspecies ?

 

[method89]

@HermanniChris probably would know

 

[SweetGreekTorts]

Subspecies appears to be ibera (Asia Minor) for both.

Need better pics of the tails for gender. Both appear to be females, but additional angles would help. Both genders of this subspecies have a hinge in their plastron, but the female's is more flexible to allow for egg laying. Also, Greeks have a blunt, rounded tip for both genders (males do not have a spur or a hook on the tip like some other tortoise species).

Here's what some of my own male ibera tails look like.