Straining, passing undigested food, NO stones or parasites, MUCUS in urine. Ideas?

jockma

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I hate to say it. I’m already almost at my limit.

He constantly gets diarrhea, which requires sanitizing his temp enclosure. He hates the temp enclosure and two or three times a day I find him and the temp enclosure completely smeared in feces since he pooped while trying to escape. I can’t watch him all day, so I’m constantly worried that he’s pooped and has eaten it or has been sitting in it for hours.

I put him in a soak in a smaller tub and he managed to poop in it then flip it over, spilling it all over the bathroom floor. I usually use his temp enclosure to soak him instead but I can’t when it’s full of poop.

His regular enclosure is 5’x7’. Can I put him in there instead of his temp enclosure? Would that sabotage the treatment, since I can’t clean it as easily?
 

domalle

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I hate to say it. I’m already almost at my limit.

He constantly gets diarrhea, which requires sanitizing his temp enclosure. He hates the temp enclosure and two or three times a day I find him and the temp enclosure completely smeared in feces since he pooped while trying to escape. I can’t watch him all day, so I’m constantly worried that he’s pooped and has eaten it or has been sitting in it for hours.

I put him in a soak in a smaller tub and he managed to poop in it then flip it over, spilling it all over the bathroom floor. I usually use his temp enclosure to soak him instead but I can’t when it’s full of poop.

His regular enclosure is 5’x7’. Can I put him in there instead of his temp enclosure? Would that sabotage the treatment, since I can’t clean it as easily?

Understandable that you are at wit's end. While the diarrheal spasms are occurring and treatment is underway, a bland diet is necessary. Banana is not a recommended staple part of a Redfoot's regular diet because of the skewed Calcium to Phosphorus ratio but it can be used as an aid in calming the spasms and helping to remediate the loose stool.

Do what you can within human limits. It's stressful. I would keep him confined in a fairly deep escape proof rubbermaid or plastic easily hosed down storage container on layers of newspaper that can be changed and discarded quickly when soiled. If you can do that frequently enough you won't have to scrub everything down every time.

The parasites will be recycled in the regular enclosure and cause reinfection.

The diarrhea will gradually alleviate. Hang in there. And practice the utmost personal hygiene while handling the turtle and performing all procedures to avoid any potential risk to yourself.
 

jockma

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Unfortunately, his temp enclosure IS a rubbermaid container...I feel I should just buy another one dedicated for soaking. I was hoping I could clean out his enclosure (it’s a metal frame pool) and clean up the poop as needed and wipe it down with soap and water every day. But I can’t deep clean it like the rubbermaid.

Unfortunately the diarrhea “trickles” throughout the day, when he DOES get it on the paper towels I lay down for him it’s usually a small amount. I discard it, wipe down the enclosure, and it stops. I check on him every 10 minutes when I’m home. It feels like he only has a lot of diarrhea when I’m not able to check on him and I feel horrible to see it stuck all on his feet.

I’ll switch the paper towels to newspaper since it should be harder for him to push out of the way and poop outside of.

How clean does the enclosure have to be to prevent reinfection? I mean, once I’ve removed all the visible debris, do I need to scrub with bleach, soak with bleach, etc? I’m worried to use bleach in case it harms him.
 

Kasia

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I hate to say it. I’m already almost at my limit.

He constantly gets diarrhea, which requires sanitizing his temp enclosure. He hates the temp enclosure and two or three times a day I find him and the temp enclosure completely smeared in feces since he pooped while trying to escape. I can’t watch him all day, so I’m constantly worried that he’s pooped and has eaten it or has been sitting in it for hours.

I put him in a soak in a smaller tub and he managed to poop in it then flip it over, spilling it all over the bathroom floor. I usually use his temp enclosure to soak him instead but I can’t when it’s full of poop.

His regular enclosure is 5’x7’. Can I put him in there instead of his temp enclosure? Would that sabotage the treatment, since I can’t clean it as easily?
Hi
Symptoms you have described are a result of the treatment unfortunately... antibiotics and flagyl wiped the good GI track flora along with the protozoa. Mine leopard tortoise had for a long time after the treatment loose, bad smelling stool. I didn’t have the opportunity to try it but only reasonable solution I have found was feeding him a healthy tortoise’s stool to restore the good bacteria gut flora (same species). After 6 months or so it returned to almost normal state. Be patient...
 
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jockma

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I noticed he gets diarrhea right after the antibiotics but wasn’t sure it would happen so quickly so didn’t make the connection...I can definitely start giving them when I come home for the day and hopefully it’ll be easier to manage. I already gave the Flagyl this morning, no diarrhea yet...

I ordered more probiotics, I have no access to healthy tort poop so hopefully this will help.
 

domalle

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The symptoms are clearly not the result of the treatment. They were manifest before the veterinarian was consulted and the course of medication initiated.


The condition called 'scour', the complete elimination of intestinal gut flora, both good and bad, that @Kasia refers to can occur as a result of medication for parasites, especially metronidazole. I would not expect it so early in treatment if it were to occur. The use of probiotics in concert with these medications, which can be harsh, is always advisable. The use of a prepared fecal sample from a healthy tortoise of the same species is a matter of last resort.

These conditions are highly idiosyncratic. We really can't predict how or how long they will take to clear.

I hope that Kasia's Leopard tortoise has recovered fully and is thriving and that your Bean will be in time as well.
 

Kasia

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The symptoms are clearly not the result of the treatment. They were manifest before the veterinarian was consulted and the course of medication initiated.


The condition called 'scour', the complete elimination of intestinal gut flora, both good and bad, that @Kasia refers to can occur as a result of medication for parasites, especially metronidazole. I would not expect it so early in treatment if it were to occur. The use of probiotics in concert with these medications, which can be harsh, is always advisable. The use of a prepared fecal sample from a healthy tortoise of the same species is a matter of last resort.

These conditions are highly idiosyncratic. We really can't predict how or how long they will take to clear.

I hope that Kasia's Leopard tortoise has recovered fully and is thriving and that your Bean will be in time as well.
I went trough the posts and reffered to the last post after giving him antibiotics/vet visit...protozoa, treatment isnt as „easy” as going for pinworms with pancur - appetite is back but putting antibiotics into already strained system will not result in an instant recovery, more likely additional side effects.
 
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domalle

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@Kasia
Your points were well taken and a worthy contribution to the discussion.
I hope Jockma can take some comfort and encouragement from our joint input and attempts to help.
 

jockma

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Poop was less wet today!!! It was much easier to clean up, I was able to catch it when it started and got the rest out in a soak. He also peed and it had no mucus!

However I’m going insane hearing him bumping around in his temp enclosure. I’ve already cleaned out all the substrate in his large enclosure and scrubbed with soapy water. Can I keep him in there and spot clean it when he poops, then deep clean when I put the new substrate in? He is so unhappy in his temp enclosure and doesn’t have room to walk around much, it makes me feel really awful.
 

jockma

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Especially since he may need to be in the temp enclosure for the duration of the treatment.
 

Yvonne G

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How about trying this - next time you roll up a pill burrito, include some cut up blades of grass inside the burrito. Maybe the grass will help give some fiber and tighten up the stool a bit.
 

jockma

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No pill burritos here, just popping the pills in his mouth when he opens it to take a bite of something and several seconds of him giving me the stink eye before finishing his meal. He’s always been easy to medicate. I can make a burrito for the grass specifically.

Would hay or something similar (like for feeding rabbits) be okay? I can’t think of any grassy areas in this city that aren’t probably sprayed to oblivion with pesticides.
 

jockma

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Poop was almost normal today. Came out soft but in a nice log shape, no undigested particles whatsoever. I’m trying to think of what I fed him to get it to improve so quickly. I got a new tub of Benebac 2 days ago and gave some every day since then. I wonder if my last pack of Benebac was expired or something.
 

jockma

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Blood test came back normal except for the infection. Uric acid was in the high normal range, the vet interpreted this as a result of the general inflammation in the cloacal region.

He started straining again yesterday and passed a ton of undigested food. I’m scared this means there’s been some sort of relapse and the Flagyl isn’t working properly. He’s been on it for 10 days now. His pee was normal today and he hasn’t strained since last night. I don’t know what to expect with flagellate treatment...
 

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