Starting to worry, think I may need advice...

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FWishbringer

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My baby isn't eating. I hope I'm worrying unnecessarily.

Last week, feeding time was usually 14-20 good mouthfuls. Day before yesterday it dropped off to 3-4 mouthfuls. Yesterday, nothing (I even left it in the old tank, and kept an eye on it to check for signs of being touched). Today, I only saw 4 nibbles (nothing at first, and only a few small chunks taken out of a wild lettuce leaf over a few hours).

They seem to be hiccuping a lot if I pick them up (not sure if that's what it is, but that's what I think it looks like... they do a sort of 'shrug' with a slight neck extension). Over the last few days, its been acting like it has an itch on its nose, as it keeps rubbing its face on its leg. I've tried the 'poke test' (my own term) which I've seen referenced in various places, checking for give, and their shell doesn't have any places of give (other than a slight whole-segment give on their belly, which is supposed to be there according to what I've read).

Its been napping in the basking spot alot the last few days as well, and since it got its new setup yesterday, has been getting restless if the CHE is turned off. If I leave it on, they have been staying in the edge of the hottest part, and shell level is registering around 95F. If I move them away, then run back there.

I was initially giving every other day soaks of 10-15 minutes, but switched to daily soaks of 5-10 minutes. It did pass stool day before yesterday while in soak. It looked like a slimy, dark brown colored, -tiny- piece of alfalfa pellet (which is not on their menu, noted here for shape).. and it could have been in the water up to 5 minutes since I had last checked on the little one. No visible trace of coir 'strings'. I switch to fresh lukewarm water after 5 minutes, so its not too cool... while they soak is when I usually try preparing food, which is offered after they soak. They passed a stool 3 days before that, and it looked about the same. I give the baby a quick 'shower' under slow running lukewarm water so they are free of dirt before going in their soak. They do have a small water dish they can climb into, but they normally just walk through it to get to the other side when they do go for a romp.

Diet has been a mix of fresh Bermuda grass (primary diet), coastal hay (which is dried Bermuda grass, I've been mincing it at adding to the food so it gets a taste for the stuff), wild lettuce, thistle sprouts, a rose petal, a rose leaf, a bit of hibiscus leaf, and a bit of tortoise dry formula crushed up and added on top of meals (comes as colored pellets, main ingredient is oats, then oat hulls, does not list alfalfa or animal products as ingredients, does contain a vitamin assortment, and has very low protein and high fiber). I've tried offering all of this over the last 2 days, with little luck. The -one- day the weather permitted so far, last week, they were outside in a makeshift playpen (under direct supervision) and they spent most of their time munching on grass. Our yard is 90% untreated Bermuda grass, with 10% of some other grass type that was thrown on a few years back in some of the patchy areas. The area they got to play in was only Bermuda grass and a few weeds (our most prevalent weed in the yard is wild lettuce right now, though the purslane is beginning to come up.. I grew up in the country in Indiana, and have been selective about which 'weeds' I remove, and which I 'just happen' to miss... and am responsible for introducing a few weeds to our yard from seeds brought back from Indiana... for adding to salads).

The enclosure is presently a large coat box (I scrapped the aquarium I mentioned in a previous post). It's about 4 feet by 1.5 feet and 5 inches tall. Substrate is topsoil. Basking spot is provided by a CHE and UVB bulb, shell height is right at about 100F. Water, food, hide, and a rock to lay on while basking are provided. Using an under-container heating mat to keep the warm zone around 80F. The cold zone is room temp, which is currently around 70F. It got this setup yesterday, after feeding time happened. My camera battery needs charged, so no pics until tomorrow (assuming I can find my charger).

Old setup was a wide base 5.5 gallon aquarium, fine coir substrate mixed with some coastal hay. The tort never visibly tried eating the hay in the substrate, and I only saw them nip at the substrate once or twice (usually followed by a quick 'get it out of my mouth' wipe on fore leg). The warm side stayed 85F, with 90F basking, and cold was room temp.

Since they have the 'hiccups' when I pick them up, is that an issue? Since they are trying to stay in the warmth, is it possibly the beginnings of a cold? Could they be impacted even if they just passed a stool two days ago, even though they seem pass them only every 3-4 days?

Side note, my cat has been acting very jealous of all the attention the tort is getting.
 

FWishbringer

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Can't edit after 30 minutes, so adding to... since a friend said the hiccuping is hissing. There's no sound, and it looks like a very very quick yawn (with shoulder shrug). They keep doing it even after I set them down, and will continue for a few minutes. If its nothing, then its nothing, but its new, and they aren't eating, so I wanted to cover all bases when asking for assistance, since I'm worried. As per the 'rubbing nose' they only started doing that yesterday (before the new setup) and seem to do so neurotically when awake;take a few steps, rub nose, take a few steps, rub nose... and so on. If they stand there, its rub nose rub nose rub nose. No watery discharge. Has been acting very sluggish.

I hope I'm just overly worried and its just natural 'a few off days' behavior.
 

Yvonne G

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The face rubbing thing makes me suspect either the substrate or the light. I know you've changed from coir to top soil, but has the light arrangement changed too?

Are you sure the soil is pure with no fertilizers or additives? And is the light too close to the habitat floor?
 

chadk

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Are you keeping the substrate moist? Dry substrate can also lead to itchy watery eyes. Mist it down once a day and add a few glasses full of water as needed. Do you have good hides? Nice small, dark, and snug, with moist substrate inside to dig in and provide humidity? One on the warm end and one on the cool end?

Also sounds like you could add another light. Just a tube light may not be enough. A standard househould 60watt bulb on on the warm end about 12 inches from the substrate will help raise the ambient temps. Put both lights on a timer, and leave the CHE on 24X7 (optional if your night temps dont' drop below 70 - but if they are not digesting well or are otherwise sick, warmer temps can help - as long as they have cool areas to go to if needed).

So do you have one or 2 torts? Sounds like 2. Maybe one hatchling and one juvie?
 

Stephanie Logan

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And no coil light fixture, right? This can cause trouble with their eyes.
 

FWishbringer

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Deasil passed stool last night, and ate today. I'm quite relieved, though still have concerns.

I went with a long (20 minute) soak, and kept them under the heat for it (so it stayed at 90F). They were quite active after, 'running' all around their enclosure. I saw them try to eat something, and used tweezers to take it away since it wasn't food. I'm glad I went with tweezers... it broke, and I saw telltale grass bits on the inside. On inspection of the enclosure, I noted a LOT of stool compared to previous stool passing, and removed them (the tort really wanted to eat them).

Still didn't want to eat anything I offered, but today, since we got up to 70F outside, Deasil got another yard trip. While in their playpen, they were actively eating grass and weeds. I kept them away from 2 weeds I didn't know for sure, need to look them up, but otherwise, the little one had a healthy appetite. Once back in the table top enclosure after the temp dropped back down this afternoon, still doesn't want to touch anything I've offered.

I'm thinking they were stopped up, based on amount of stool, but am also a bit worried since the baby doesn't seem to like being fed in their enclosure. I transplanted some of the good weeds from outside, and planted some rye grass seed in their enclosure (taken from bird food we put out... also have thistle seed, haven't looked up thistle to see which table it fits into; primary, treat, bad... its edible by many omnivores/herbivores so I assume treat or primary).

Would it be normal (or at least likely in my situation) for a hatchling to develop preferences such as refusing to eat inside? Regarding the face rubbing, Turledude's sully has started doing the same, and they are from the same clutch. Eyes aren't watery, they are given lots of soaks, don't look dry, and our setups are quite different, so maybe the rubbing is just new-parent over-worry and they really just have some annoying itch.
 
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