soft plastron

[moswen]

if there's a limit to how many threads a user can start please inform me... i feel like i'm getting close lol!

the plastron on all three of my tortoises are soft. origionally i wrote off MBD in the beginning of my tortoise research because i had already acquired everything that prevented mbd, so i figured "what's to worry about." however, this morning after their morning soak i decided to gently squeeze their shells just to make sure... cause i'm overly worried about them... and the two younger girls do have very soft plastrons. moswen's plastron is stronger, but it's still slightly soft, and he's around 7 months my breeder said. the girls were born in jan and feb of this year, so they're around 3 months old. i am just curious how old they are before their shells "completely harden up."

their enclosure--

uvb light is on them 10" away from their substrate for 10-12 hours a day(when i get up till i go to bed basically). they get calcium powder plus d3 coating a finely chopped thin slice of opuntia cactus, i'm growing a sulcata seed mix from sulcatafood.com's website and i've seen all three of them eat from the pots growing the grass in their enclosure, as well as the clippings i put in their breakfast. and they get soaked hay and a few mazuri pellets. that's all they have ever eaten, besides ayana, the smallest female, i have hand fed her a small piece of dandelion leaf a few days ago. i just got a vitamin supplement yesterday fom sulcatafood.com's website as well, so i gave them that this morning, but this is the first time they've had a supplement besides calcium since i've had them. they have cuttlebone in their enclosure, and i've seen both the girls eat it the first few days i had them, but i haven't seen anyone eat it since then.

i've separated ayana and safina from moswen about 3 days ago because i was concerned moswen wasn't pooping, but both the girls are "excreting" just fine. i'm about to give mos a nice long warm soak because he hasn't left me any presents in these 3 days, but i'm not very concerned yet because sometimes tula goes a week before she leaves me a nice huge steaming pile.

your thoughts, please!

 

[Kristina]

What is the brand of the UV light that you are using, and are you following the manufacturers directions regarding placement?

At this point I would say that the level of softness you are seeing is normal, but it is hard to tell. Is there any strange coloration to the plastron?

I wouldn't panic at this point, just monitor them closely.

Kristina

 

[moswen]

i'm still using the exo terra 10.0 coil bulb because i haven't gone to the store since i have read they are bad for your tort's eyes, and they do not exhibit any uncomfortable signs... but i will be replacing it within a week or so with the full spectrum mvb powersun bulb.

and yes i'm following their reccomendations, it says "12 inches" but i'm housing them in 2 underbed bins so the highest i can get the clamp lamp is 10 inches. i figure it's not harming them if they're active, basking under it, and not acting uncomfortable.

 

[Kristina]

As far as I know, the Exo Terras were never linked to photo-kerato-conjunctivitus, and since the issues were first made known in 2007 most of the products that were linked to ocular issues were pulled or revamped. I think your bulb and placement are fine for now, but I do prefer the MVB bulbs because of the general "color" of the light output.

Kristina

 

[tortoisenerd]

If at all possible I would get the T-Rex over the Powersun--worth the extra few dollars for a better UVB output and better overall bulb. I can buy a T-Rex 100 watt for under $55 including shipping online (I use Google shopping to compare). They last for a year and you use less fixtures so it was actually a cheaper option for me than the tube+light+heat. With the MVB, get a lamp stand and a deep and wide ceramic socket hood fixture so you can put the bulb face parallel to the substrate and adjust the bulb height every few days as the room temperature changes (even if your thermostat stays the same the room temperature will change).

 

[moswen]

ok, i will do that. thanks!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I think your diet is seriously lacking. While I do feed Mazuri to Bob, I don't feed it to my smaller tortoises and I don't feed them hay. They are small and growing and their bones and nerves and muscles need all the nutrition they can get and I don't think they can get what they need from softened hay. I buy a box of Spring Mix from the produce section in the Safeway. Then I add all kinds of other good stuff like dandelion leaves and flowers, grape leafs, radicchio, red leaf and green leaf lettuces, romaine, cactus and I mix it all up and cut it up into smaller pieces and they eat like crazy. Anyhow, I don't think your diet is what it should be and your torts show that by being soft.
I would get rid of the coil bulb and just use a normal incandescent bulb until you can buy a Trex.
Take them outside and let them play in the sun. They need exercise as well as a good diet. Here's a link to a care sheet that will help you out...

http://africantortoise.com/

 

[moswen]

we don't have grape leaves or flowers right now in oklahoma, and it's too cold to take them out right now. it's snowing! i posted this diet the first day i joined here and i got a lot of two thumbs up from it. however i did just order a t rex 100 watt mvb bulb on the internet just now because i don't know the next time i will be in town. i already feed tula dandelion leaves and spring mix so i will start adding those things to their diet tomorrow, but i'm still going to feed them the hay and mazuri.

 

[Yvonne G]

Rebekah:

There is almost no nutrition in dried up old hay. And babies won't eat it. Its too hard for them to eat. Since your babies are soft, you need to work hard at providing them with the calcium and Vit.d3 they need to make their bones and shells harder. A maintenance diet isn't good enough. Look for the greens that are high in calcium and be sure to get the good light that will help them with the D3. Once the shells harden up, you can go back to your maintenance diet, but for right now, you need to give them foods with more calcium...NOT hay.

When we all told you that your diet was a thumbs up, we had no idea that the plastrons were soft. That changes everything.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

We had snow here too and we don't have grape leafs or blooms on anything. We are still in winter. I live in the Pacific North West. We don't even have sun yet. So I buy everything I can from the local stores and nurseries and I make a pretty good tort salad from all that stuff.
I have rescued numerous Sulcata or desert tortoises with soft shells and if you let it go on, the tort dies. I don't want to scare you, but you need to realize you have to take charge right now and add supplements with D3 and feed a good diet. Put them outside as often as you can. I put my small ones outside in the sun (when we have it) and I make sure they are sheltered from the wind. It's not easy and it's hard for an old lady with one working hand, and I fell last week so it's super hard for me to walk...but I still have animals to care for so I load them all up and I take them out into the sun. A couple of days ago the talking head on TV said our temps were SOARING into the low 50's...woo hoo! We're having a heat wave.

 

[moswen]

ok maggie, i gave them a few leaves from the spring mix (no spinach), a few dandelion leaves, the usual small slice of opuntia with calcium, i supplemented them with the vit supplement with calcium powder plus d3 that i got from sulcatafood.com that has no phosphates in it, and i chopped all that up together and fed them, they went after it! i did do a little bit of hay, but no mazuri and i also did not chop up any of the sulcata seed grass that i usually do, since i have seen all three of them eating it from the pots in their enclosure. i have a new t rex mvb bulb on the way, and i have moved their enclosure in "their room" over so that the sunlight through the window hits it. even though window-filtered sunlight is virtually useless, i figure it can't hurt.

i gave them a whole cup of this stuff, so i'll see how much they eat! i figured i would go ahead and stop the hay and mazuri, since they don't eat it anyways. i've also spent some time reading through old posts regarding hatchlings, and i've seen that a few of you all do not feed hay to your hatchlings, and i'm sure your experience is worth more than my two cents lol! so i'll see where this gets me! thanks for everyone's help and advice! i'm sure i'll be on here a ton more with a million more questions!

p.s. i also just bought a grape stem in a gallon pot from lowe's. i'm going to sit it under the coil bulb that i will no longer be using for the babies when i get the mvb bulb, see if i can't jump start the growing.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Sounds good! I'm sure others will have more comments.

I did however want to chime in that I don't think you should feed the grape leaves you got from Lowe's for at least 6 months because I assume they are not chemical-free. Even with re-planting them, the chemicals are systemic and supposedly take that much time to leech out. Starting from seeds or buying organic would let you feed them right away. I recommend buying a tort seed mix online and using organic potting soil and some planters or trays to grow them if you can't plant them outside. They make nice little sprouts to top the tort salad if nothing else, although some are luckier and can get enough to sustain their tort!

Also, I would be cautious with that supplement. I couldn't find an ingredient list on the site, so I'm not sure what they put in it besides the listed immunity stuff. I don't believe in vitamin supplements, but something that is just ground up natural stuff would be great (like Total Nutrition for Tortoises from Carolina Pet Supply). Anyone else here have info about this specific supplement? I'd use just the calcium + D3 (usually I'd just recommend pure calcium but this is a different situation) unless this is an all natural supplement which would be ok, as it is difficult to know the correct dose for vitamins. Because the website says to sprinkle like salt 2-3 times a week, it leads me to believe it isn't all natural (for which you can use as much as you want with no risk of overdose). You can find a calcium + D3 supplement at pet stores. You may be surprised how much they eat now as I assume they just weren't eating much of the previous diet as it didn't appeal to them.

Best wishes.