Snake kills children ?! D:

[EchoTheLeoTort]

I didn't state my opinions as fact. Did i say - i know everything, I am jesus, I know the truth about every medical thing like the all mighty JD? no i did not. I am so sorry I am not as nerdy and I didn't know how strong bones are. I "bow down" to you. Maybe take the stick out of your *** and read that I have been saying all along I don't know everything and i might be wrong. Where is your guys proof it was definitely the snake? You can show me all the stupid toe tags and pagers you wish, but it doesn't back up that it was the snake that killed the children. Neither of us has solid proof that the snake, or something else caused the death. SO why don't you grow a pair and admit that this whole case is unknown instead of acting like you're always right?

NOBODY IS SAYING IT WAS 100% THE SNAKE! We are saying that the evidence that has been released so far does not lead away from the snake.

To be honest I understand where you are coming from and I agreed with you earlier that no one is right at this point. The thing that is getting old is the fact that Jd will throw facts out willy nilly and saying over and over that everyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong and are morons. He becomes rude every time someone says that we don't believe it is the snake. He throws out all this personal info that isn't related. I will be the first to agree that JD has most experience with medical related things, but he can't really put those medical experiences to use when we don't know anything of the victims except COD. I said what i did at first because the majority of snakes will flee if threatened, or possibly bite, but they don't normally go and coil something and kill it and leave because its not a smart thing to do. When most snakes do coil they bite first and then wrap around. I can't tell you if the snake fell or not, but if it did, itd be loud. I am speaking on what most snakes are like. I did not intend to come across as factual because what my first post was supposed to speak for the characteristics of most snakes. There are snakes who will kill if threatened, there are snakes who may not bite before coiling, depending on how they coil, bones may or may not break. My point is that most snakes get a bad wrap, and the majority of snakes aren't the vicious things they are made out to be in media and societies eyes, and I think that so far there is no hard solid facts that lead me to believe the snake for sure did it.

 

[Jd3]

If there is any more personal attacks or name calling this thread will be closed. Get back on subject and everyone has the right to their opinions!

I'm a-ok with opinions and I'm sorry used name calling early I here. I was a dbag there.

But if you state an opinion you should state why, and you should state it as an opinion. Not as a straight fact with no qualifier.

Saying something like " the sun is closer than mars" is clearly stated as a fact. It doesn't make it right.

 

[Laura]

Im not goin g back to read all 7 pages,, but I heard on another forum there may have been a gas leak? or carbon monoxcide? it killed the kids...silent killer...

but wasn't there a third child in the room?

sorry if it was mentioned already..

 

[wellington]

Most of the post on here has been stated as if they were fact. if someone questions you about that, instead of arguing or name calling, explain yourself or state the proof to back it up as a fact. A simple " I think" or "I feel" would clearly explain its just an opinion. How simple that would be. No one has the facts about this story. So lets wait and see if any more facts do come out. Until then, keep it civil.

 

[poison]

Im not goin g back to read all 7 pages,, but I heard on another forum there may have been a gas leak? or carbon monoxcide? it killed the kids...silent killer...

but wasn't there a third child in the room?

sorry if it was mentioned already..

Carbon monoxcide is a theory and a very good theory imo. The third child ( the owners son) was in a different room.

 

[Jd3]

Im not goin g back to read all 7 pages,, but I heard on another forum there may have been a gas leak? or carbon monoxcide? it killed the kids...silent killer...

but wasn't there a third child in the room?

sorry if it was mentioned already..

Co poisoning would be easily detected I atmosphere and tissue samples. It would also likely have killed everyone in the home and all of the animals. CO is lighter than air and the whole first floor would likely have been filled, effectively suffocating the animals too.

There are two primary types of asphyxiation, with this being mechanical asphyxiation. It seems unlikely to me that at this stage in the investigation that they would have mistaken CO poising for a snake constriction.

The children on the floor would be the first to have been effected here, so I can see where it would be most likely to assume if guessing. But since this was a second story floor and not a basement floor it seems less important to differentiate a foot ormsomof elevation.

I have actually witnessed the aftermath of CO related suicides they typically have distinct discoloration. They also usually lack petechia related to mechanical asphyxiation.

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Btw, co poisoning is the commonly acceptable method for euthanasia in animals, mammals and reptiles. In case people wonder about the threshold and levels required. I won't link direct because the reading is a little graphic... But you can find fairly easily info that describes the co euthanasia and the levels required. Info in toxic levels in humans is readily available too.

The scenario while a plausible reason two kids could die from asphyxiation seems highly unlikely to be mistaken as a snake constriction death....

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Guys...fellow reptile lovers...cut it out please. The autopsy report has not been released yet, so whether or not there were bite marks, or inhalation of carbon monoxide, or broken bones, etc. that debate is irrelevant.

When herpers are spouting off nonsense when they do not have all the facts, this does not make us look any better then the news media doing the exact same thing. The best thing you can say regarding this situation is "I don't know what happened, because all the news stories say something different, and the autopsy report has not been released. Whatever happened is certainly a tragedy for the families involved and my heart goes out to them." Then do your best to educate others that not every person who owns a snake is an irresponsible moron. The statistic/numbers game can go back and forth all day long, so personally I wouldn't even bother.

But realistically, folks....you are going to have to accept the possibility (and probability) that this snake was responsible for the kids' death. It may not turn out that it was and we all hope it was not, because we all love snakes, but seriously, there's a saying "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck." Either way this story plays out, it will result in bad press for herps. Fighting it tooth and nail, and saying there is no possible way that snake could have killed those two boys is naive and ignorant, because it simply is not true and it does not behoove any of us to let our biased emotions get in the way.

 

[Yvonne G]

I split off all the argumentative and offensive posts in this thread. If there are any more arguments and name calling, we'll just close the thread.

When there are hot topics discussed on the Forum, everyone is expected to act like adults. What good does it do to start calling names and treat fellow members as second class citizens? Serves no purpose except to get you and others riled up.

Step back...breathe...relax. You get your point across much easier when you talk in a calm, rational manner.

I apologize to Wellington, who was trying to keep the peace here in this thread. Sometimes one has to take more drastic measures and I did.

 

[CLMoss]

I am with Jd3. The snake killed the two boys. Why would this be "fishy"? Why would anybody question this for one minute? Just remember "Occam's razor" before going into lala land.

~C

 

[exoticsdr]

looks like the investigation has changed to a murder investigation.....interesting...maybe the pet tortoise did it.

 

[ra94131]

looks like the investigation has changed to a murder investigation.....interesting...maybe the pet tortoise did it.

That would be interesting... although it doesn't seem to fit the facts up to this point.

Do you have a citation/reference for this? I'd love to read it.

 

[exoticsdr]

...facts up to this point,....all seems very subjective to me so far.
Here is the link... http://www.fox.com.au/fox-news-feed/2013/8/snake-deaths-now-a-murder-investigation/

It's out there just like all the other reports, substantiated or un-sub as they may all be....

 

[Jd3]

...facts up to this point,....all seems very subjective to me so far.
Here is the link... http://www.fox.com.au/fox-news-feed/2013/8/snake-deaths-now-a-murder-investigation/

It's out there just like all the other reports, substantiated or un-sub as they may all be....

Ooh! One source from 5 days ago In Australia and NO ONE else picked up as a murder? Don't you notice the headline says murder but the story actually has nothing that says that?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386416/Noah-Connor-Barthe-To-buried-casket-forever.html

This story actually ties a lot of info together, with a listings of some info to date.

Yours however doesn't actually have any content or source. I wouldn't expect much from fox anywhere though.

The reporting is known for its smell.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw&desktop_uri=/watch?v=AQhMllQ-ODw

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Numerous facts have been presented to this point. I do not understand how people can be so intent on standing up for an animal when so much points to it killing these kids.

Then again, it falls in line with much of the thinking on this board. When someone wants to talk about actual facts or sound research they're shot down fast because they're beloved heroes have all said it is true so we can't argue with that.

Snakes do not look at people as prey. They do not look at anything as prey. They smell prey. Kids who have been playing with prey items all night smell like prey. A snake that has actually escaped through this same vent before?

A snake that was kept illegally?

A snake that was the size of the combined weight of these kids?

Get over it. Defending this right now isn't logical. It isn't what sane people do.

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I understand many WANT this to be untrue. That doesn't MAKE this untrue. This doesn't have anything to do with the hobby as a whole. This keeper was IRRESPONSIBLE. He broke the law and apparently knew of housing problems with this particular snake. He didn't have the per its necessary. But that doesn't change the highly likely and sad fact that a snake killed two small kids.

 

[exoticsdr]

JD right, I'm wrong in pointing out yet another source (which I'm sure you have never found be be correct (can't use "right" because, of course, FOX cannot be unbiased about anything).....but I think this is probably the way it is for you all the time, gosh...being correct about everything must be such a burden. I'm curious as to why this thread irritates you so much that you choose to attack anyone and everyone that posts on it.....I simply posted ANOTHER source, I didn't write it, I didn't express my personally opinion as to what I think happened and I DIDN'T direct my posting to anyone in particular...done with this post, done with JD3

 

[CLMoss]

Fox news...Need anybody say anything else? Smug reporters who lack any intelligence and deny "Facts." Everything is a conspiracy. Education and science is frowned upon. This conglomerate where rich people pay other rich people to tell the middle class to blame & hate the poor for our failing economy. Those who advocate a "caste society." Again I will say, "Follow the money." Sensationalism sells.
Denial...that is what all of this about. Those of you who choose to keep dangerous "pets," both domestic and wild, in their homes, refuse to believe that this can happen to YOU. "Pets" that can kill you should not be kept as pets. Obviously the mother of these two boys felt the same as those on this forum who keep such "pets."
Personally...My parents would have NEVER allowed me to have a sleep-over with such "pets" living in the same building. They would politely invite the other children to spent the night at our house. What was this women thinking!? Stupid, stupid people and so sad. Two beautiful children fell victim to a bunch of stupid adults.

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Jd3 is a breath of fresh air on this forum. Opinions from other members on this forum who give a different point of view should be encouraged. It makes members open their minds to other possibilities.



Regarding "Fox News," yes you are right! They are in fact bias. Money is their God. If they, Fox, were ever to be creditable, they should include intelligent debate with creditable guests, who can carry on an intelligent conversation. Facts are not what they are known for. They are dangerous people who like to incite hate.



Jd3 attacking members on this thread... I don't think so. Most of the posts & threads that I have read from Jd3 is from an intelligent human being who cares about people and gives good advice. I don't believe that he carries said "burden of being right." The burden is of others stupidity. If anything, I see other members attacking HIM!