Severely Malformed Redfoot (Pic Heavy)

NudistApple

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Hi friends and neighbors! It's been ages (years) since I've last posted, which in a way is a good thing? All has been status quo with personal torts, so I haven't had much need to post. I have a male greek tortoise, and a female Hermann's. They are peachy.

I am the foster coordinator of my local humane society, and today we had a Redfoot in seriously bad shape surrendered. It's supposedly 5 years old, but it seems that it's growth has been stunted, as my Greek, who is ~5 years old is larger than this Redfoot... That being said, I am not familiar with this species, and they may just be slow growers?

Anywho, the poor thing is crazily pyramided, has no use of it's extremely atrophied hind legs, and it's plastron is...concave?
It's in bad shape. We have an exotics consultation scheduled for this Thursday, and afterwards I will personally be taking it to foster.

I guess what I'm looking for here would be words of advice from other people who have attempted to salvage the quality of life in a Redfoot that is this bad? I'll hopefully be housing him primarily outside, as long as that won't be worse for him, given his poor health.

Here's some pictures:
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allegraf

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She is actually not so bad. She definitely needs to be kept more humid and soaked. It will be a long road to recovery but she looks like she will be just fine with the right care. She looks very alert which is always a plus. Are you keeping her? There has to be someone up your way that has RF and can take her. I would but I'm in Florida.

Feed her plenty of greens and fruits like watermelon. Generally light on the fruits, but melon should help hydrate her. She also likely needs to be checked for parasites. Good luck, the pyramided ones always have the best personality. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. I have several "foundlings" with moderate to severe pyramiding.
 

wellington

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I would give her/him, concaved plastron is only on males. However, this one could be concaved from bad care. Anyway, I would do hydrotherapy on him for his back legs. Do twice daily, filling a tub up with warm water and letting him swim. Most likely he won't, so with a couple fingers hold his head end above water, while also helping him float and try to get him to start moving his legs. I did this to a rescued leopard that only could scoot. He now is my fastest tort. Learned this great way to help a tortoise recover its mobility from Yvonne.
 

MPRC

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This redfoot really doesn't look so bad, I've seen them being sold in worse condition. Proper diet, heat and humidity and she'll probably do just fine. Give her lots of nice long warm soaks and possibly consider hydro therapy if she's not using her rear legs. I had one that was a 'scooter' because she was kept on a hard surface for the first 9 years of her life, she hardly used her rear legs at all. I've only had her 8 months and she's already strong enough that she's digging nests in hard packed soil and walks nice and tall.

If you need to 'pretty her up' for adoption you kick start the moisturizing process with a little coconut oil, it seems to keep my torts skin sleek even when they are outside and the humidity isn't perfect, but don't rely on it as a substitute for proper husbandry.
 

NudistApple

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Are you keeping her? There has to be someone up your way that has RF and can take her. I would but I'm in Florida.

Thanks for the advice! I am not planning on keeping him/her, I just want to get it on the road to recovery. When it first arrived at the shelter, it had quite a large amount of clear ocular discharge, which makes me worry about URI.

I would give her/him, concaved plastron is only on males. However, this one could be concaved from bad care.

I tried to show in the pictures, it's not the whole plastron that's concave (like in a regular male), but like the individual scutes? They are indented several centimeters. And that one anal scute is seriously wonky!

This redfoot really doesn't look so bad, I've seen them being sold in worse condition....
If you need to 'pretty her up' for adoption you kick start the moisturizing process with a little coconut oil, it seems to keep my torts skin sleek even when they are outside and the humidity isn't perfect, but don't rely on it as a substitute for proper husbandry.

We don't get too many tortoises in this part of PA, maybe I only think it looks so bad because I'm used to my own sleek ones! I'll definitely try the hydrotherapy. It doesn't even drag it's hind legs, they are constantly retracted in the shell. I might try some coconut oil! Even if it's just cosmetic, sometimes it feels nice to look nice!
 

William Lee Kohler

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"She/he is actually not so bad. She definitely needs to be kept more humid and soaked. It will be a long road to recovery but she looks like she will be just fine with the right care. She looks very alert which is always a plus. Are you keeping her? There has to be someone up your way that has RF and can take her. I would but I'm in Florida."
Also need very good full spectrum 10.0 UVB lighting and supplementation with food. Curious lack of hind leg function? Do legs move at all normally? Is there reaction if you(gently)pull on feet? Looks like age of about 5 years in correct.
 

ZEROPILOT

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"She/he is actually not so bad. She definitely needs to be kept more humid and soaked. It will be a long road to recovery but she looks like she will be just fine with the right care. She looks very alert which is always a plus. Are you keeping her? There has to be someone up your way that has RF and can take her. I would but I'm in Florida."
Also need very good full spectrum 10.0 UVB lighting and supplementation with food. Curious lack of hind leg function? Do legs move at all normally? Is there reaction if you(gently)pull on feet? Looks like age of about 5 years in correct.
I use a 5.0 with my Redfoot. But I agree that a good UVB source is critical to recovery. If not the actual sun.
 

William Lee Kohler

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They're good lights as well and will still use them if the others aren't available when needed.
 

TammyJ

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I am glad you will be looking after him/her towards a good recovery.
I love the face on that one - smiling through his issues!
 

Pearly

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Thank you for taking personal interest in this poor baby. The pyramids are not so bad but the shell looks somewhat collapsed on the back side. Her plastron looks like one of those torts who spend lots of time sitting on heat mats trying to stay warm. Those things desiccate, burn and sometimes severely deform plastron. I'm guessing her shell is collapsed and hind legs not working due to MBD. Her diet and hydration will be absolutely critical. She will need to stay warm, I would never let her temps drop below 80F, or even 85F until she starts getting stronger. You have already got lots of good advise above: hydrotherapy :soak in nice warm water 95-103F in tub big enough where she can try to walk. If you can spend 15-20 with her or have your older responsible child do it, on her bath daily, fill up tub with more water, enough for her to have to stretch her neck to keep her nose above water surface, support her with both hands and float her, gradually start almost- letting go and see if her back limbs are moving. after a while of doing this they are likely to do so. One more thing for you. I hope you don't mind, I just wanted to share my experience with feeding sick Redfoot baby with you, This is my old feeding thread. Hope you can open the link, maybe you can get some ideas there. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Pearly's-tips-to-feed-picky-eater.139381/ This tort needs to EAT!!! Good stuff and lots of it!!!! MBD is known to cause them lots of pain. I believe that all sick torts should be fed food very finely chopped that is easy for them to take in, process, swallow. The type of eating that requires little energy use. Sometimes they are just in too much pain or too weak to deal with biting off pieces, tearing up stuff, holding with their limbs... In my feeding thread you'll also find lots of good food items that you can buy in your supermarket so you don't need to go out foraging for her. Greens alone are not good diet for the RF. In the wild they also eat lots of SAmerican Indigenous fruit (not your typical "apples and bananas") and small snakes/lizards, inverts and even carrion (they have to have animal protein), and forest mushrooms! Mine absolutely LOVE forest mushrooms. Also commercial tort diet, if you don't have Mazuri then any other forest tort pellets to supplement. Anyway, I hope this helps you some. Please keep us posted. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you two:)
 

NudistApple

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Curious lack of hind leg function? Do legs move at all normally? Is there reaction if you(gently)pull on feet? Looks like age of about 5 years in correct.

Like Pearly - I suspect that the lack of function is due to MBD. He will very slightly pull back if I tug on his feet, but nothing like on a healthy tort. As to the age - are they slow growers then? I've just measured, and it's only slightly under 6" SCL.

I use a 5.0 with my Redfoot. But I agree that a good UVB source is critical to recovery. If not the actual sun.

I was planning to use the sun, as it's currently 80+ with high humidity. If he needs to be that warm around the clock, I will have to bring him into the house at night. It dips into the high 60's at night.

Thank you for taking personal interest in this poor baby...Please keep us posted. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you two:)

Thank you for all of the really great information!! I was so curious was could have done that to the plastron, that makes sense. As for feeding, what's your guys preferred protein source? I'll have to pick up specifically for this tortoise, as my 2 and I don't eat meat, haha. As good call on finely chopping the food-stuffs. I didn't consider that eating may be difficult/painful for it right now (I'm used to my greek, who I've seen put rinds to shreds!). It was interested in the greens we offered, didn't approach fruit (had strawberries on hand).

I have the Grassland tortoise pellets for my 2, I didn't realize Redfoots could eat it as well, so that is mighty convenient.

I will definitely be updating! I'm very curious what-all the vet will prescribe tomorrow. I'm thinking calcium injections aren't out of the question.
 

Pearly

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Like Pearly - I suspect that the lack of function is due to MBD. He will very slightly pull back if I tug on his feet, but nothing like on a healthy tort. As to the age - are they slow growers then? I've just measured, and it's only slightly under 6" SCL.



I was planning to use the sun, as it's currently 80+ with high humidity. If he needs to be that warm around the clock, I will have to bring him into the house at night. It dips into the high 60's at night.



Thank you for all of the really great information!! I was so curious was could have done that to the plastron, that makes sense. As for feeding, what's your guys preferred protein source? I'll have to pick up specifically for this tortoise, as my 2 and I don't eat meat, haha. As good call on finely chopping the food-stuffs. I didn't consider that eating may be difficult/painful for it right now (I'm used to my greek, who I've seen put rinds to shreds!). It was interested in the greens we offered, didn't approach fruit (had strawberries on hand).

I have the Grassland tortoise pellets for my 2, I didn't realize Redfoots could eat it as well, so that is mighty convenient.

I will definitely be updating! I'm very curious what-all the vet will prescribe tomorrow. I'm thinking calcium injections aren't out of the question.
As to the age - are they slow growers then? I've just measured, and it's only slightly under 6" SCL. It's really hard to tell. I have 2 RFs and never thought of them as "slow growing". In 2 yrs they grew from 2 & 2.5" and couple ounces each to 7"- and over 2lbs and 8"- and over 3lbs! Moving rocks!:)
 

Pearly

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Like Pearly - I suspect that the lack of function is due to MBD. He will very slightly pull back if I tug on his feet, but nothing like on a healthy tort. As to the age - are they slow growers then? I've just measured, and it's only slightly under 6" SCL.



I was planning to use the sun, as it's currently 80+ with high humidity. If he needs to be that warm around the clock, I will have to bring him into the house at night. It dips into the high 60's at night.



Thank you for all of the really great information!! I was so curious was could have done that to the plastron, that makes sense. As for feeding, what's your guys preferred protein source? I'll have to pick up specifically for this tortoise, as my 2 and I don't eat meat, haha. As good call on finely chopping the food-stuffs. I didn't consider that eating may be difficult/painful for it right now (I'm used to my greek, who I've seen put rinds to shreds!). It was interested in the greens we offered, didn't approach fruit (had strawberries on hand).

I have the Grassland tortoise pellets for my 2, I didn't realize Redfoots could eat it as well, so that is mighty convenient.

I will definitely be updating! I'm very curious what-all the vet will prescribe tomorrow. I'm thinking calcium injections aren't out of the question.

"I was planning to use the sun, as it's currently 80+ with high humidity. If he needs to be that warm around the clock, I will have to bring him into the house at night. It dips into the high 60's at night." To address this- Yes! Definitely indoors at night and under ceramic heat source in humid box filled with moss or something like that to hold moisture. I really think that when kept at 85f those sick torts recover much quicker.
 

NudistApple

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Luckily, I have ceramic heat emitters in spades. I soaked him, and got him some fresh greens & a bit of chicken I pilfered from a coworkers lunch. Best I can do before I take him home tomorrow evening! Including some pictures, one of the enclosure he was surrendered in.
 

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Pearly

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Like Pearly - I suspect that the lack of function is due to MBD. He will very slightly pull back if I tug on his feet, but nothing like on a healthy tort. As to the age - are they slow growers then? I've just measured, and it's only slightly under 6" SCL.



I was planning to use the sun, as it's currently 80+ with high humidity. If he needs to be that warm around the clock, I will have to bring him into the house at night. It dips into the high 60's at night.



Thank you for all of the really great information!! I was so curious was could have done that to the plastron, that makes sense. As for feeding, what's your guys preferred protein source? I'll have to pick up specifically for this tortoise, as my 2 and I don't eat meat, haha. As good call on finely chopping the food-stuffs. I didn't consider that eating may be difficult/painful for it right now (I'm used to my greek, who I've seen put rinds to shreds!). It was interested in the greens we offered, didn't approach fruit (had strawberries on hand).

I have the Grassland tortoise pellets for my 2, I didn't realize Redfoots could eat it as well, so that is mighty convenient.

I will definitely be updating! I'm very curious what-all the vet will prescribe tomorrow. I'm thinking calcium injections aren't out of the question.
"As for feeding, what's your guys preferred protein source?" Your possibilities are almost endless here. Mine adore plain cooked shrimp. I buy that precooked frozen and used to thaw out one shrimp once a week, chopped it up and give it to them after breakfast on Sundays:) i used wax worms when they were little, Eggs are great, any kind of meat or fish just no salt/spices, cooked or steamed... or ... raw. When cooking i'd cut off small piece of whatever fresh I was about to cook and chop it up very, very finely and offer for dessert after their meal, they like some more than others. I also buy this ridiculously expensive cat food for my fussy maine coon boy who is pickier and any pickiest 2 yr old toddler... uggghhh, anyway I end up throwing away ½'s of cans of very expensive food that he won't eat (the first ½ is offered to the cat) anyway good quality cat or dog food is good too. Wet or dry. Don't forget mushrooms! I buy chanterelles, chickens of the forest, morels and other wild forest mushrooms in my gourmet supermarket. Oh and eggs, can smash the shell and mix it in.
 

Pearly

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Luckily, I have ceramic heat emitters in spades. I soaked him, and got him some fresh greens & a bit of chicken I pilfered from a coworkers lunch. Best I can do before I take him home tomorrow evening! Including some pictures, one of the enclosure he was surrendered in.
She really looks... not that bad!!!! And the enclosure is good start, just cover the top to keep the heat/humidity from escaping
 

mike taylor

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Boiled chicken, boiled tilapia, mushrooms,home grown worms ,Beaf liver. All good proteins. This tortoise needs to have an xray if you haven't seen it poop or pee.Some times kidney stones will make them not use their back legs .
 

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