Russian Trying to Get Home? Migrate?

[TracyMarie]

I’m new here, please forgive any mistakes.

Four years ago, I had a Russian Tortoise for about two years. During the winter, he slowed down, slept a lot, but still had a little activity and food. This was his version of hibernation I supposed.

He is no longer with me, and three months ago I adopted another one from someone who had him for ten years. His behavior so far has been pretty calm and normal, regular eating, sleeping, time spent crawling around the house and finding a corner to nap in. Of course he was shy for the first month, but has grown more comfortable.

It’s getting colder now, and during this time I expected he might slow down in the same way. However, it’s literally the opposite. Just within the past week, he’s become excessively hyper. He walks very quickly around the house for several hours. He obsesses over our ceiling to floor windows, pacing in front of them and stopping occasionally to look out longingly. He doesn’t stop to nap like he used to. He’s eating everything we put in his dish with no hesitation.

I took him outside to show him that it’s cold and that didn’t seem to work. And it’s not just one area of the house, it’s any room that is facing west. He seems to want to go that direction.

Is it possible that Russians migrate or that he wants to mate? Or could he be trying to get back to his former home to hibernate?

He seems obsessed, and I just want to make him happy.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

For one thing, your tort should be in an enclosure. They should never be allowed to roam the house on the floor. They could eat something they are not supposed to and die. Also, they don’t get the heat or humidity they need. We have a Russian tort section with care sheets and info on how to set them up. Others will chime in here to explained the hazards also. Please read the care sheets and get him in an enclosure.

 

[TracyMarie]

For one thing, your tort should be in an enclosure. They should never be allowed to roam the house on the floor. They could eat something they are not supposed to and die. Also, they don’t get the heat or humidity they need. We have a Russian tort section with care sheets and info on how to set them up. Others will chime in here to explained the hazards also. Please read the care sheets and get him in an enclosure.

This is not the question I asked and you didn’t ask me if he has an enclosure, and if so how much time he spends there to get adequate light. You didn’t ask me how closely he is monitored or whether risks and obstacles are removed when he gets exercise.

If you’d like to ask me any of these and have a dialogue, I’m happy to answer.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Hi Tracy, and welcome! I can't comment on the mannerisms of your russian, but what Cheryl posted is a legitimate concern. I'm quite sure she wasn't trying to be condescending toward you.

 

[Bambam1989]

I’m new here, please forgive any mistakes.

Four years ago, I had a Russian Tortoise for about two years. During the winter, he slowed down, slept a lot, but still had a little activity and food. This was his version of hibernation I supposed.

He is no longer with me, and three months ago I adopted another one from someone who had him for ten years. His behavior so far has been pretty calm and normal, regular eating, sleeping, time spent crawling around the house and finding a corner to nap in. Of course he was shy for the first month, but has grown more comfortable.

It’s getting colder now, and during this time I expected he might slow down in the same way. However, it’s literally the opposite. Just within the past week, he’s become excessively hyper. He walks very quickly around the house for several hours. He obsesses over our ceiling to floor windows, pacing in front of them and stopping occasionally to look out longingly. He doesn’t stop to nap like he used to. He’s eating everything we put in his dish with no hesitation.

I took him outside to show him that it’s cold and that didn’t seem to work. And it’s not just one area of the house, it’s any room that is facing west. He seems to want to go that direction.

Is it possible that Russians migrate or that he wants to mate? Or could he be trying to get back to his former home to hibernate?

He seems obsessed, and I just want to make him happy.

Thank you in advance.

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Are you sure that your tort is a male?
Females that are carrying eggs can act quite spastic while looking for a place to lay.
This is what came to mind from your description.
I am not an expert but if your tort is acting stressed and the cause is not identified it could escalate into a very sick tort.
Most of the Forum members, myself included, do not recommend letting your tort roam the floor for various reasons (we can elaborate on this if you want to hear them).
May we know how long your tort stays out of his enclosure? What are the enclosure temps and what kind of lights are being used?
As far as I know torts don't migrate but the do travel alot.

 

[TracyMarie]

Hi Tracy, and welcome! I can't comment on the mannerisms of your russian, but what Cheryl posted is a legitimate concern. I'm quite sure she wasn't trying to be condescending toward you.

I didn’t say she was being condescending. I said she was not answering my question, nor asking helpful questions to assist in reaching a solution.

 

[TracyMarie]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Are you sure that your tort is a male?
Females that are carrying eggs can act quite spastic while looking for a place to lay.
This is what came to mind from your description.
I am not an expert but if your tort is acting stressed and the cause is not identified it could escalate into a very sick tort.
Most of the Forum members, myself included, do not recommend letting your tort roam the floor for various reasons (we can elaborate on this if you want to hear them).
May we know how long your tort stays out of his enclosure? What are the enclosure temps and what kind of lights are being used?
As far as I know torts don't migrate but the do travel alot.

Hi, thank you for asking great questions to help get to the bottom of the issue!

He’s been seen by a vet and confirmed to be a male.

He, (or even if there’s a slight possibility of a she), was with his former family for ten years and was never with another tortoise in any case.

I’d be happy to hear the reasons you don’t recommend letting him roam. But please know that he is only allowed in rooms that have a clear floor, and he is constantly monitored. His former family allowed him to roam freely and it was impossible to keep him from “begging” to come out of his enclosure. By “begging,” I mean constantly scaling the walls and scraping if that makes sense. He seems full of energy and happiiest to run around rather than be contained. But we fully understand the risks and importance of monitoring every single step. The floors are cleaned only with sweeping and hot water as well, and we have no inside pest control or need for it.

He is out of the enclosure for 1-3 hours, usually in the evening.

I use the Zoo Med light, but would need to go take a look if you need specifics. We haven’t purchased a new one, just inherited it with the adoption.

It’s around 75-80 degrees and 90-95 inside the lighted area.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Tracy, and welcome to the Forum!

You've asked for our advice, so now it's up to you to relax and listen and either accept it or not. We're not like other forums or facebook sites you may have visited. We truly have your tortoise's best interest at heart. And none of us are here to show off or make you feel inferior or like we know it all. We have a lot of experience, and have answered questions like yours many, many times. But please understand, when we see something wrong, such as your tortoise is allowed to roam the house, we feel we must comment on it. Maybe Cheryl didn't know the answer to your question, so she just commented on the part of your post that she did know about. So, having said all that, here's my response to your post:

Your tortoise does not want to migrate. He (or she) doesn't want to mate. What he does want is a safe and secure place, a quiet place, where he can hibernate. He's looking for a cool place with plenty of dirt he can dig down into and bury himself for the winter. He's desperate to find this place before it gets too cold for him to move.

In my opinion, because this tortoise is new to you, he should not be allowed to hibernate this winter. You need to keep him up and eating so that you can learn about his habits and so that you can be sure he's healthy. In order to keep him up, you're going to have to fool him into thinking it's summer. Roaming around the house, where he comes into contact with different types of "weather" isn't going to make him think it's summer. He needs a large enclosure with a UVB light that gives him light and heat for 14 hours a day. He will need about 4" to 6" of substrate, a couple hiding places, a feeding tile and a waterer. Don't allow the night time temp to get down below about 70F degrees (it's summer, after all).

Containing this tortoise in an enclosure is going to stress him, because he's had the whole room to wander around in, but it's for the best. You have to be strong. He'll settle down after a couple weeks and realize he's safe in his new territory.

Now, for the reason a lot of us don't think roaming around the house is a good idea. This is what one of our more experienced members said on this subject a while back:

"Ascott said:
To let a tort roam our habitats or not? Always a question that will offer up a bunch of opinions, stories of what happened to some, stories of how dumb it is and success stories....so if you see the trend here, it is that folks do alot of different things based on their own lives. Now, I would love nothing more than to have a posse of torts cruising through the house at will...well, except for the huge puddles of urine, and some species offer up white gooey urates mixed in with the pee....so much fun to clean and then disinfect (especially if there are children in the home, or dogs that lick floors)..oh and then there is the moments where the tort will be set on moving behind the electronic equipment and get all caught up in the cords....and no way will the cords stop them, they have no problem continuing on their path and all kinds of things come crashing to the floor (you see, torts will rarely throw it in exact reverse to get out of a situation, onward and upward) and a total score if they come across any little doo dads they may come across on the floor, hair from the humans (which is awesome when entwined within their gut as it attempts to move through) or a piece of something that is hard or broken off of something else and sharp (again, a great item for causing rips and tears to their system...and not nice at all if it does actually make it through and out the end---ouch)...and then there is the awesome dash, or be smashed by one of those cumbersome humans along with the smaller versions of them....and if there are any dogs in the house...awesome, the tort can get to experience what it may be like to be a rawhide treat....

So, while there may be a few hazards...there is always the eventual reality to the tort that has been allowed to roam a large area, that well, it is there... a large area. Once a tort has been exposed to a large space, it will be unsatisfied and unable to settle into an appropriate enclosure set up for its safety....see, when you take on the responsibility of hosting a tort---it is kinda your task to do what is best for the health and well being of the tort....so perhaps making the indoor time enclosure the best it can be...at so be it, the tort will learn its environment and will get a routine down there just as you feel he will in your habitat...you may also want to invest a bit of time in researching what is involved in supporting a healthy brumation for this species, they are deeply driven to brumate....just some sharing here....again, no judging--seriously.
Thanks, Angela"

I thought I would also mention that a tortoise needs his inner core body temperature to be hotter than 80F degrees in order to digest his food. It's much easier to provide him such a spot when he's contained in an enclosure.

Please open your mind to our suggestions. We have no hidden agenda. Just trying to help.

 

[Bambam1989]

Random fact that I learned from the forum- females don't need a male to develop eggs. It's quite common for them to lay unfertilized eggs without ever being in contact with another tort.
Your vet is probably right about the sex but if you want to get second opinions you can start another thread with pics of the underside of your tort.

I am agreeing with @Yvonne G .
Another point to make as far as roaming the floors are the floors themselves. If you have carpet (sounds like you don't) it could be eaten and cause impactions. Hard floors provide little traction and I believe that over time it could cause strain on ligaments and joints. It's cold down there, heat rises so the coldest place is the floor (unless you have radiant heat)
Anything you would like to further discuss we will be happy to help... As soon as I eat my spaghetti.

 

[TracyMarie]

Hi Tracy, and welcome to the Forum!

You've asked for our advice, so now it's up to you to relax and listen and either accept it or not. We're not like other forums or facebook sites you may have visited. We truly have your tortoise's best interest at heart. And none of us are here to show off or make you feel inferior or like we know it all. We have a lot of experience, and have answered questions like yours many, many times. But please understand, when we see something wrong, such as your tortoise is allowed to roam the house, we feel we must comment on it. Maybe Cheryl didn't know the answer to your question, so she just commented on the part of your post that she did know about. So, having said all that, here's my response to your post:

Your tortoise does not want to migrate. He (or she) doesn't want to mate. What he does want is a safe and secure place, a quiet place, where he can hibernate. He's looking for a cool place with plenty of dirt he can dig down into and bury himself for the winter. He's desperate to find this place before it gets too cold for him to move.

In my opinion, because this tortoise is new to you, he should not be allowed to hibernate this winter. You need to keep him up and eating so that you can learn about his habits and so that you can be sure he's healthy. In order to keep him up, you're going to have to fool him into thinking it's summer. Roaming around the house, where he comes into contact with different types of "weather" isn't going to make him think it's summer. He needs a large enclosure with a UVB light that gives him light and heat for 14 hours a day. He will need about 4" to 6" of substrate, a couple hiding places, a feeding tile and a waterer. Don't allow the night time temp to get down below about 70F degrees (it's summer, after all).

Containing this tortoise in an enclosure is going to stress him, because he's had the whole room to wander around in, but it's for the best. You have to be strong. He'll settle down after a couple weeks and realize he's safe in his new territory.

Now, for the reason a lot of us don't think roaming around the house is a good idea. This is what one of our more experienced members said on this subject a while back:

"Ascott said:
To let a tort roam our habitats or not? Always a question that will offer up a bunch of opinions, stories of what happened to some, stories of how dumb it is and success stories....so if you see the trend here, it is that folks do alot of different things based on their own lives. Now, I would love nothing more than to have a posse of torts cruising through the house at will...well, except for the huge puddles of urine, and some species offer up white gooey urates mixed in with the pee....so much fun to clean and then disinfect (especially if there are children in the home, or dogs that lick floors)..oh and then there is the moments where the tort will be set on moving behind the electronic equipment and get all caught up in the cords....and no way will the cords stop them, they have no problem continuing on their path and all kinds of things come crashing to the floor (you see, torts will rarely throw it in exact reverse to get out of a situation, onward and upward) and a total score if they come across any little doo dads they may come across on the floor, hair from the humans (which is awesome when entwined within their gut as it attempts to move through) or a piece of something that is hard or broken off of something else and sharp (again, a great item for causing rips and tears to their system...and not nice at all if it does actually make it through and out the end---ouch)...and then there is the awesome dash, or be smashed by one of those cumbersome humans along with the smaller versions of them....and if there are any dogs in the house...awesome, the tort can get to experience what it may be like to be a rawhide treat....

So, while there may be a few hazards...there is always the eventual reality to the tort that has been allowed to roam a large area, that well, it is there... a large area. Once a tort has been exposed to a large space, it will be unsatisfied and unable to settle into an appropriate enclosure set up for its safety....see, when you take on the responsibility of hosting a tort---it is kinda your task to do what is best for the health and well being of the tort....so perhaps making the indoor time enclosure the best it can be...at so be it, the tort will learn its environment and will get a routine down there just as you feel he will in your habitat...you may also want to invest a bit of time in researching what is involved in supporting a healthy brumation for this species, they are deeply driven to brumate....just some sharing here....again, no judging--seriously.
Thanks, Angela"

I thought I would also mention that a tortoise needs his inner core body temperature to be hotter than 80F degrees in order to digest his food. It's much easier to provide him such a spot when he's contained in an enclosure.

Please open your mind to our suggestions. We have no hidden agenda. Just trying to help.

I don’t think anyone has a hidden agenda, but I do think this is the internet, and in true form, there is always one or two that can’t answer a question but still can’t keep scrolling without commenting regardless. I never said that her information wasn’t a possible welcome suggestion, I said that her lack of fact gathering was inappropriate. And those who don’t like that I shared that opinion can “relax.” If anyone answering same questions many, many times should have the best intentions for the animal and that can be demonstrated in each and every answer. If it becomes too tedious to help kindly, then that may be the moment that a person should consider taking a break.

I am here to find out how to help this animal, not to comment on the propriety of interaction. So on that note-

Thank you for the good information.

He does have the living arrangements you’ve mentioned, so it sounds like I need to begin ignoring his pleas to come out? Do you have links or resources that I may be able to follow up with on this particular part?

I understand about digestion, that’s why he has been coming out only in the evenings. And the rooms he uses are clear of cords and debris, and there is no one around to lick up the urine. These are not factors in my issue, but his searching for a place to hibernate seems to certainly be a likely answer to my question, and for that I thank you.

 

[TracyMarie]

Random fact that I learned from the forum- females don't need a male to develop eggs. It's quite common for them to lay unfertilized eggs without ever being in contact with another tort.
Your vet is probably right about the sex but if you want to get second opinions you can start another thread with pics of the underside of your tort.

I am agreeing with @Yvonne G .
Another point to make as far as roaming the floors are the floors themselves. If you have carpet (sounds like you don't) it could be eaten and cause impactions. Hard floors provide little traction and I believe that over time it could cause strain on ligaments and joints. It's cold down there, heat rises so the coldest place is the floor (unless you have radiant heat)
Anything you would like to further discuss we will be happy to help... As soon as I eat my spaghetti.

Thank you again! I did not know that about the eggs.. hmm. I will certainly look for those threads and compare. If it’s not obvious, I may post a photo for your opinion.

And very good point about the hard floors and the temperature. More reason to try to work on getting him to stay inside.

Thanks and enjoy your spaghetti!

 

[Bambam1989]

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

This link and others are pinned to the top of the Russian section.

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum @TracyMarie .

Please post pics of your tort and his enclosure so as to enable us to give you advise and to help you more easily.

 

[TracyMarie]

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

This link and others are pinned to the top of the Russian section.

Thanks!

 

[TracyMarie]

Welcome to the forum @TracyMarie .

Please post pics of your tort and his enclosure so as to enable us to give you advise and to help you more easily.

Sure, thank you! Not home right now but I will this evening I appreciate all the kind help.

 

[Gillian M]

Sure, thank you! Not home right now but I will this evening I appreciate all the kind help.

Look forward to seeing the pics.