RT Won't eat, won't move - Very worried

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ChinacatSun76

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We have had our russian for about a year, he (I think) was purchased from Petco last July and they weren't sure how old he was (not that I trust most of what they say there...but that's another post).

When we brought Yoda home, he acclimated quickly and was a fairly good eater. Though he'd only touch romaine lettuce (throughout the year I've tried, dandelion leaves, greens, green/red/yellow peppers & broccoli), he ate a ton of it (at least a small handful a day). He was alert, dug quite often in his enclosure and enjoyed being outside with us to roam the yard. He'd head to a shaded area of his enclosure and lay in the "sun" as well.

Over the last few weeks though, he's become more and more lethargic (won't move for an entire day, even to find the heat source) and won't eat. At first he was just eating less, even though the same amount was offered so I figured he wasn't as hungry. But the last few days, the food sits there and goes untouched, even when I place him directly next to it. It's almost like he's drugged. The last 3 days he's to the point he barely opens his eyes when I pick him up (or when I soak him) and doesn't even go in his shell in defense.

I'm using a new brand of bulbs (but the same wattage), but other than that nothing has changed. His mulch is the same (bought from PetSmart) and his water and food locations are the exact same. He did go nearly 3 days without his hottest heat source (the bulb blew over a holiday weekend, but I got him a new one ASAP). I've read that sometimes they stop eating until their body temp is restored, but this was quite awhile ago and the bulbs have been back on for weeks now.

Help! What questions aren't I answering? What have I missed? What can I do? He does have an appointment to see a vet this week, but since he stopped eating all together 3 days ago, and was barely eating before that, I'm worried he might not make it. :(
 

kimber_lee_314

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It sounds like he's pretty sick, so I'm glad to hear you have an appointment for him. What are the temps in the enclosure now? Is he inside or outside? If he's outside and barely moving, be very careful about putting him out. If he's too sick to move out of the sun, he can easily die.
 

Missy

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Poor little guy. I would soak him a lot until you can get him to the vet. I am sure some more experienced people on here can give suggestions. Keep us updated and if you can send a pic that will help to see what he looks like.
 

egyptiandan

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More questions :p

How long are your lights on for? Have you been giving any supplements?

Pictures of your set-up and Yoda would help greatly. :D

Is the vet experienced with tortoises?

Danny
 

chadk

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Where do you live? I've noticed that at certain times of the year, my RTs will get into a funk and slow down eating and moving around as they usually do. Then one day they will be back to normal. This is with no change in husbandry. Both russians do it at the same time. And the sulcata who is currently sharing their space is still going full steam, eating like crazy and very active. Only the russians are doing it. I know other russian tort owners who have reported the same thing, often during the same basic time period in the same region I live in.
 

ChinacatSun76

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Let's see if I can hit all the questions. :)

- The vet is experienced with tortoises. He knew immediately it was severe dehydration. We just got him back an hour ago (he was at the vet for the last 7 hours) and was more alert and moving. Poor guy was conserving energy which was why he wasn't moving.
- We live in Ohio.
- The set up is a glass (which I now know is bad) 30 gallon tank with the lights sitting on the mesh screen top. He has a place for shade and the cooler side is where we feed him. Until Monday, he hasn't had a water dish. The people at Petco told me he didn't need one, just to soak him every few weeks.
- The bulbs aren't a coil type, they're flat (versus rounded like traditional bulbs).
- I found out the thermometer on the warmer side is broken. It's a dial type and hadn't moved in awhile, I just replaced it and it was way too hot on that side. So I'm assuming I need a lower wattage bulb? (not that I'm stupid, but I didn't notice so I'm not trusting myself much right now....) I bought a new one that monitors temp and humidity today and just put it in a few minutes ago.
- I leave the hotter light on while I'm at work/gone for the day until my son goes to bed. So from about 7am to 8pm. Then turn the cooler infrared light on at night.
- His "bedding" is a mix I bought at PetSmart, it doesn't say what it's made of on the bag, just "natural substrate" that had tortoises listed on the bag front. He doesn't have sand in his tank, I'd never heard of that until I started reading up a week or so ago.

The vet have him IV fluids and a vitamin shot, took x-rays and examined him. He tried to take blood but poor Yoda was too dehydrated for that. He wants to recheck him on Friday to try and get blood and see how he is, so we have an appointment set up for that. When we picked him up he was the most alert he's been in days and was actually opening his eyes. His head even looked better, less "scaly" looking and more smooth like he used to be.

The vet told me to do things as normal, soak him and offer him food and water. When I put him back in his tank he hasn't seemed interested in food yet, but there is a water dish and dandelion leaves and romaine right next to him if he wants them. How can I tempt him to eat? The vet said he was "really light" which means he's underweight too....
 

Kristina

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ChinacatSun76 said:
Let's see if I can hit all the questions. :)

- The vet is experienced with tortoises. He knew immediately it was severe dehydration. We just got him back an hour ago (he was at the vet for the last 7 hours) and was more alert and moving. Poor guy was conserving energy which was why he wasn't moving.
- We live in Ohio.
- The set up is a glass (which I now know is bad) 30 gallon tank with the lights sitting on the mesh screen top. He has a place for shade and the cooler side is where we feed him. Until Monday, he hasn't had a water dish. The people at Petco told me he didn't need one, just to soak him every few weeks.

OH MY GOD!!!

Every few WEEKS?!?!?!

Do you have paperwork from the vet stating that it was dehydration?

I would be marching straight over there, demanding to speak to a manager and showing them the result of their blatant mis-information. I am so furious I do not know what to say. UGH.

ChinacatSun76 said:
- The bulbs aren't a coil type, they're flat (versus rounded like traditional bulbs).
- I found out the thermometer on the warmer side is broken. It's a dial type and hadn't moved in awhile, I just replaced it and it was way too hot on that side. So I'm assuming I need a lower wattage bulb? (not that I'm stupid, but I didn't notice so I'm not trusting myself much right now....) I bought a new one that monitors temp and humidity today and just put it in a few minutes ago.
- I leave the hotter light on while I'm at work/gone for the day until my son goes to bed. So from about 7am to 8pm. Then turn the cooler infrared light on at night.
- His "bedding" is a mix I bought at PetSmart, it doesn't say what it's made of on the bag, just "natural substrate" that had tortoises listed on the bag front. He doesn't have sand in his tank, I'd never heard of that until I started reading up a week or so ago.

The vet have him IV fluids and a vitamin shot, took x-rays and examined him. He tried to take blood but poor Yoda was too dehydrated for that. He wants to recheck him on Friday to try and get blood and see how he is, so we have an appointment set up for that. When we picked him up he was the most alert he's been in days and was actually opening his eyes. His head even looked better, less "scaly" looking and more smooth like he used to be.

The vet told me to do things as normal, soak him and offer him food and water. When I put him back in his tank he hasn't seemed interested in food yet, but there is a water dish and dandelion leaves and romaine right next to him if he wants them. How can I tempt him to eat? The vet said he was "really light" which means he's underweight too....

At this point, I would worry more about keeping him hydrated. I would be soaking him twice a day, in water that is warm to the touch, not hot. Get a jar of Gerber baby food carrots, and mix it in with the soaking water. This will allow him to absorb some of the nutrients. Soak him until the water cools, you can put a lamp on it to keep it warm longer.

You can also float some greens in the water while he soaks.

Bird vitamins (the kind you add to their water) is another alternative for getting some vitamins in him. I would also get him out into the natural sunshine, in the mornings when the sun isn't too hot (be careful not to over-heat and re-dehydrate him.) He will most likely pick at the grass/weeds in your yard, but only do this if you have not used chemicals or had dogs in that area.

Russians from Petco are wild caught, so feed him things that he will recognize as food (dandelions, plantain, other edible weeds.) Here is a good list of edible things you can find outside. http://africantortoise.com/edible_plants.htm

Kudos to you for getting him to a vet!!!
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I second the treatment Kristina has suggested. I have soaked many a tortoise in baby food and it really works. Please do that and no matter what, don't give up on him...
 

ChinacatSun76

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When I took him back to the vet on Friday, he had some fecal discharge under his shell, so he checked it out under a microscope....it was filled with parasites. He said there were TONS of them.....I looked through the microscope and saw them. :( :( They gave him an oral medication and gave me a syringe for another dose to give him at home in two weeks.....but he's still not eating. But at least he's moving around a little bit again.

He's staying hydrated and his habitat is at the right temps, he actually moved to get directly under the heat lamp the other day. :) I'm soaking him every day, with the baby food mixture (half baby food sweet potatoes or carrots and half warm water). Hopefully it will eventually perk him back up.

My next question is - anything else I can do? I'll take him into the sun tomorrow and as many days as I can. I don't have any paperwork from when we got him anymore since we've had him for more than a year...do you think I still have a leg to stand on at Petco? I've spent over $350 at the vet in the last 5 days, so getting them to take a little responsibility would be nice. LOL

And should I get my cats tested? They like to hover around him when he's out in his "playpen" :) where we soak him and bring him out into the living room to sit with us while we watch TV sometimes. I've caught them drinking from his soaking water when I've left it out after carrying Yoda back. (Now I take the water, with Yoda in it, directly to the sink and pour it out before taking him back.) Neither of them is showing signs, but now I'm worried....the vet said not to worry about getting my son tested for them, but he's due for a check up soon anyway, so I'll just ask the pediatrician then (or can humans not get the same parasites? I have no idea...).
 
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Maggie Cummings

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No don't worry about the cats. But I personally would be giving injections using Lactated Ringers. I have done this in the past and it keeps the animal hydrated until he turns around and starts eating and drinking on his own. I think his prognosis is good now that he is moving around some. Parasites are really hard on an animal and I congratulate you for taking him to the Vet. I hope he starts eating for you and makes a full recovery.
 

Laura

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Try feeding him somthing colorful.. Purple lettuce, yellow sqaush, small bit of strawberry, butternut squash...
As for Pet co.. If you can find the person who told you that.. or go in and start asking questions about thier care, see what they say. if they cont to tell you the wrong info, take it to the Managers attention with your vet bill..
Regardless.. take care sheets in to the Manager and make sure ths Never happens again!
 

ChinacatSun76

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maggie3fan said:
I personally would be giving injections using Lactated Ringers. I have done this in the past and it keeps the animal hydrated until he turns around and starts eating and drinking on his own.

What are these? How do I get them and can I use them (vs the vet)? He's still moving a bit, but hasn't eaten a bite in well over 2 weeks. His skin is looking okay (not great, but better than it was), and I'm soaking him once a day and making sure his habitat isn't super dry/is slightly humid.
 

ChinacatSun76

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Lacerated ringers? Anyone? Anyone? : )

Yoda is still not eating. I'm soaking him once a day for 30 minutes using half warm water and half baby food carrots or sweet potatoes. Offering spring mix every day. Should I start feeding him some of the baby food carrots with a syringe? An eye dropper? Or should I throw in the towel?

He's just got to be miserable....his skin looks hydrated, but sort of swollen to me at times (first two pictures, especially the one of his back legs). Or maybe he's normal and I was just used to seeing him underweight? He hasn't opened his eyes in days that I've seen, and he lets me open his mouth to give him his last dose of medicine a few days ago. When we got him, that would have NEVER happened...he has jaws like a vice. And he just lets his arms and legs hang out of his shell now, barely even makes an attempt to retract them. I don't want to make him miserable if there's no way to save him from the parasites. :(

I attached a few pictures to see what you guys think....

Pre Soak
0710002055.jpg

0710002055a.jpg


After soaking (I think his skin looks more normal)
0710002136.jpg
 

egyptiandan

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It looks like he isn't drinking while your soaking. :( I think it's time to go back to the vets and have them put in a feeding tube. This way you can feed and water him through the tube. It also makes it easy to give medications. With a feeding tube in he can also eat on his own if he wants to.

Danny
 

Laura

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He looks Old..
I hope he comes around.. but if not.. you did more then so many people would have done..
keep us updated...
 

Kristina

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The bloat looks like renal failure. He isn't drinking so he isn't passing his waste, and it is building up in his body and poisoning him.

Get him back to the vet. He is not doing good at all. He needs a feeding tube and probably fluids as well.
 

movealongmosey

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Im so sorry about your situation :( I definately hold petco responsible, because it seem like every other tortoise that comes from that place has parasites! :mad: Hopefully yoda starts to feel better soon.
Prayers and love from katie :)
 

dmmj

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I am sorry to hear about your RT I am no expert and I certainly don't want to worry anyone but I was also thinking renal failure, but please wait for a et view before you get all worried. I always cringe when I hear " petco said so and so" my animals always have access to fresh water. I wm hoping you will get good news and he will get better, but he does look kinda of old to me.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Lactated Ringers comes from the Vet, they would have to sell you the equipment and show you how to do it...it's just an injection under the skin with a product that will hydrate him while he's not drinking...
 
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