Reverse Pyramiding????

[dabayliss]

Ok, I have five redfoot and was recently able to give them an outdoor enclosure (in Florida). It has shade for day time (I bring them in at night), plenty of sun (cf: Florida), huge amounts of humidity (I did mention Florida - right?), three bathing pools and I have planted the area (180sq ft) with lots of food they like ...

Three of my redfoots have pyramiding (I rescued them) - one has always had a beautiful flat shell. I was kinda hoping that in their new idylic surroundings the old pyramiding with even out and my beauty would stay beautiful.

Well - my three pyramided tortoises are all producing new, flat growth - which is very pleasing. But my 'smooth' tortoise is now 'bulging at the seams'. That is to say that the 'join line' between the scutes is actually RAISED maybe 3-5mm amove the surrounding shell.

She still appears perfectly healthy; she is barrelling around her enclosure banging into bushes to try to get the flowers to fall off and she eats like a small horse <always has> - but I have never even HEARD of reverse pyramiding and wondered if anyone else had ...

David

 

[dmarcus]

Pictures would really help, hard to picture exactly what your describing...

 

[Balboa]

I've heard of this sort of thing, and seen different variants. One of my own rescues who was pyramided had some reverse pyramiding show up in my care.

In some cases it sounds like it has to do with hydration levels and the plasticity of the shell. Members will mention how it may come and go. Other cases (as in mine) are more permanent.

As much progress as we've made in methods to "prevent" pyramiding we still understand little about the actual mechanism by which it occurs.

Currently I theorize that in nature as the tortoise goes through the cycle of the seasons the shell experiences different conditions that set the shape of the growth. If variables get "out of whack" the shell doesn't grow exactly right. I believe that the shell puts on actual linear growth during the "wet growing seasons" when humidity is high, hydration levels are good, and lots of fresh growth is available for consumption. During the dry seasons food is of poorer nutritional quality, but possibly higher calcium levels and drier. During this time the shell will likely "firm up" in both bone density and scute pliability and the new growth will be set. Now say for example the tortoise gets wet, nutritious foods in dry weather, pyramiding may result. Somehow changing the parameters may result in inverse pyramiding during the wet season, etc..

As I said, this is just theory at this point, and many individuals may have very different takes on the issue.

 

[dabayliss]

It is not photographing very well - here are my best attempts:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ScmuhD8LZARwImzh34O6-NzksRuI1-1bu1bBw4q68og?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/smgu-tvYSft-9Q3Dk7K4tdzksRuI1-1bu1bBw4q68og?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YJmeOD7V5AGQqjtHo2fqn9zksRuI1-1bu1bBw4q68og?feat=directlink

 

[HarleyK]

You have a beautiful red foot. Anyhow I have a yearling and I see the reverse pyramiding when the tortoise is dehydrated...that is my own personal theory. There are days when I leave the tortoise out longer and when he doesn't drink enough water it seems to show. The growth lines look much smoother the next morning.

I'm not sure how this works physiologically, but this is what I have observed.

 

[dabayliss]

That could fit - when I first sent this message it was very prominent - but it is rather less scary today (and in the photos).

She has 3 bathing pools available - so she has not excuse to dehydrate - but I might try placing her in the pools from time to time -- see if she gets the idea ...

David

You have a beautiful red foot. Anyhow I have a yearling and I see the reverse pyramiding when the tortoise is dehydrated...that is my own personal theory. There are days when I leave the tortoise out longer and when he doesn't drink enough water it seems to show. The growth lines look much smoother the next morning.

I'm not sure how this works physiologically, but this is what I have observed.

 

[Balboa]

Honestly, from the pics, she looks great.

If I'm seeing things right, she previously had some VERY mild pyramiding, and what you see is simply the new growth coming in "correct".

As to hydration, I am of the opinion that tortoises tend to be somewhat like cats. They don't always want to drink as much as they should, which is part of why humidity can play such a huge role.

 

[DaisyDuke]

Yours looks great to me. You should see my poor Sheldon. Very bumpy
I have had a similar experience to Harley. I live in the North East so it's very dry and very cold in winter. Sheldon stays inside all year but I bring him/her out on our hot humid summer days. Keeping the habitat humid has been near impossible no matter what I try. I notice in the summer after he's been out the pyramiding looks like it gets better. Depends on the day on how it looks too.