respiratory infection

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Baoh

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johnreuk said:
It's disturbing that there is some real misinformation here......
Regarding antibiotics and there action, and method of administration, I would advise you ask a qualified vet for an explanation. While I think this forum is excellent, and the advice is usually similarly top notch, it is worrying that some people are doling out medical advise when they are not qualified to do so, and in several cases the information is incorrect.
Antibiotics do not always need to be injected into muscle to be effective.
However, intramuscular injections ARE indicated in some cases, and it is not going to kill the tortoise or cause its leg permanent damage (but there are always risks to any injection in any animal)
It depends on what antibiotic is being prescribed, as to what is the most effective route of administration.
Several people seem to be under the impression that 'antibiotics' are all the same.... they are very much not... they all have different indications, different mechanisms of action, side effects, and similarly different routes of administration.

I agree with senji sandy.... you should ask the vet about the course of antibiotics, and refer to them for medical advise of this nature.

Agreed.
 

skuttle

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Hi guys. Just an update i just had ny 5th shot a while ago. My tortoise still eats but not that much still clear eyes and nostrils but still doing the smacking thing with his mouth with occational sound. I noticed also within the last few days his yawning a lot while eating and he adter
Swallowing a mouthful of veggies he inhales air once or twice like his compensating for air from the time he was munching on the veggies and swallowing. Is it normal
For tortoise to do that? Im on my 5 th shot and my vet told
Me we are done with shots if ever the tort stops eating then i'll bring him back but kinda worried still because the smacking with sound didnt disappear and he usually looks like trying to compensate for air while eating. The reason why im saying that his compensating for air is because he inhales (opens mouth to 1/4 of the max )air twice after swallowing the food sometimes also with sound. To put the story short i need advice if i will still continue the antibiotic to 7 or 10 shots to be sure because im worried if he doesnt get well i might reinject again in the future starting from the first shot and it will be more stressfull for his system. I dont get it why he doesnt do the croaking sound and opening of mouth when im in the vet for my vet to see. What do you think guys?
 

mikeh

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If the vet said your are done with shots, that would mean you prob reached the length of time which antibiotic can be given for and no further shots will help or should be given.

The smacking of the mouth is empty chewing, not gasping for air. The croaking sound you hear is upper beak grinding against lower beak, when jaws close. It may be normal. I observe empty chewing in all my torts, especially in the morning. Some more then others.


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sibi

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You're right Angela, we don't agree on some things; and for good reason. I too have done research ,and along with research, I've spoken to a few professionals in the field. So,don't accuse me of not knowing what I've learned through discourse, reading, and experience. Having said that, I can tell you that the OP had stated a yellowish mucus discharge from the mouth/nose. I tend to take the word of the OP and sometimes narrow the problem to specifics. So, I don't always state all possible reasons for mucus discharge. But, because it was yellowish, that was my primary concern. I also tend to be more cautious than cavalier in my opinions because too often here there are those who advise home remedies and avoid at all cost a recommendation to visit the vet. I, on the other hand, take a "better to be overly cautious than to lose your animal due to inaction" attitude. In a perfect world, it would be nice to get all the blood work and analyses of your animal BEFORE treatment. That's unrealistic in many cases due to the high cost of these tests and people's inability to afford all these tests. Also, in so many cases, it isn't necessary i.e. Prolepses, obvious RI symptoms. This is one such case with the OP. A diagnosis of RI was confirmed by an experienced vet. I may not like how many vets do things, but I will not place my experience over that of a vet who has the same opinion that i have concerning URI. Why? Because if i did that everytime my animals got sick, they would have died on me. Neither of us are experienced vets, and we don't profess to be so. Your experiences are as valid as mine; and as such, you can state what you think the OP should do BASED on your experience and knowledge, but so can I.

Let me tell you what I've learned and read or experienced. I have an aquatic turtle of 25 years. 15 years ago she laid an egg and it caused a large prolapse. I had no idea what to do, and I was horrified. I took my turtle to a specialize vet and they gently pushed the tubular matter back in. They stitched her up, but it wanted to come back out. In the end, they had to cut out some dead tissue, and surgically put the matter back. It was a long recovery for her but, she survived some 15 years later!.

I didn't need a diagnosis of a prolapse; it was obvious. This was not something a little honey would've cured. I have sullies that had URI with mucus discharge from both the nose and mouth. All other symptoms were there like lethargy, not drinking, eating but not as usual, etc. I knew something was wrong, even without a confirmed diagnosis. I didn't wait; my instincts were to take him to a specialized vet. Did the vet take a sample of mucus and confirm a RI? No, it wasn't necessary because his mucus, the coloring if it, the other symptoms all told me he was very sick with a URI.

Now, for the method and why I prefer it. First of all, both my torts had a URI, and one was treated with injections under the skin areao
of the neck, the other IM. The one treated with under the skin had gotten sick again a week after the meds were finished. The one treated with injections IM stayed well thereafter. Both methods were acceptable to all the vets I've spoken to. However, to me, the proof was in the outcome. For me, that's the way I'll always go because it worked better.

So, let's take the issue of the possible damage to nerves with IM injections. You should at least give ME the benefit of the doubt. I KNOW HOW TO INJECT MYSELF AND MY TORTS IM. I DO NOT inject the legs (neither the front or back). Nerve damage from injections in the legs is inevitable; that's why I don't inject legs. I find the muscles between the neck and the leg. I also alternate injection sites. I would think vets could teach owners the proper way to do this. So, to say that IM should be avoided is going over your expertise especially when many vets practice this method.

Now, let's address the cleaning out of an enclosure. My goodness, are you saying that someone should throw out a glass enclosure that can be sterized and sanitized? It's ridiculous. I never said that all the bowls, dishes, and substrate can just be rinsed out and reused. In fact, I stated that the substrate should be completely replaced with a RI, or any other infectious diseases. Like glass, bowls made of glass can be sterilized. If you have a ceramic or wood bowl, I would discard those, but I stated before, I don't always broaden advice to be totally inclusive of the particular items many members use. I have totally sanitized the enclosures of my torts. All substrates were replaced, and all glass bowls were sanitized in boiling water, then with a sanitizing liquid that's absolutely kills any bacterial or fungi known to man. Like I said before, my torts were not re-infected because of my methods.

Finally, let's talk about the pain, suffering, and stress that any meds, injections, travel, strange encounters that our torts may go through. I am super sensitive to pain, suffering, and stress. Like most our members here, we love our torts or we wouldn't be here. I have all the time in the world. As such, I watch my animals for hours and hours. I get to know them very well. I've learned just how each one reacts to certain things. I've even learned to soothe them and calm them down in ways that some would think insane. So, when you imply that giving injections IM are painful and not necessarily the best method, I would tell you you are making a judgment against me that you have no right to make! I am well aware of stress and pain of injections. I'm well aware that the medicine is what's painful, not the actual needle, although the pain of the slight pinch of a needle is subjective. I am well aware of the stress it causes torts to subject them to these treatments. But when I weigh the advantages to the health or life of my torts against the disadvantages, I make a judgment call. Do I put them through this and help them get "cured," or do I just wait, apply home remedies, and have my tort continue to suffer with an illness that is treatable? Oh, and when I say "cured," it wasn't to be understood that the virus is killed off and could never return . Like I said, I don't always expand on what is actually meant especially when it isn't an issue at the moment.

Angela, I'll always opt to minimize the suffering of my torts over "let's see and wait" attitude. I have read too many experiences here where members waited until it was too late. I've read story after story of members not going to a vet because suggestions were given to try this, or try that, or just wait and see. Not me, and I'll always advise a vet visit when I believe it's warranted. You can either see my rational in the decisions I've made or advise, or you disagree. But, you can't say I'm wrong and you can't tell me how to advise others based on my experience and knowledge anymore than I can tell you how to advise others. Remember where we are. We're on a forum where members give advise that can either be taken or not.

In the end, all of your points are a matter of opinion and/or methods...neither of which we have to agree or else the other is wrong! You do not corner the market on diagnosis, care, treatment, or feeling for tortoises any more than I do. If your intentions were good you would have PM me on your opinions. But because you are calling me out on these points, I will always defend myself against people like you. If you want to continue this nonsense, you may want to think about it first.


'ascott' pid='733486' dateline='1378224334']
Signs include a mucopurulent discharge from the nares, puffy eyelids, eyes recessed into the orbits, and dullness to the skin and scutes.

Does this sound like your tort....think about it quickly and think does this fit your tort BEFORE the vet visit?

http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/wptortois...t-disease/

This is a good reference for explanation/overview of this affliction....please do read all of it...while it does indicate Desert Tortoise in the title, when you read on you will see it also can affect a variety of tortoise species...

I wonder, if the solution that your vet used in trying to clear the nostrils in itself did not create the discharge due to irritation..this can happen and if the vet is not very experienced with tortoise then could be mis read as something it is not.....

I apologize, but if I were you and had a tort that had some clicking I would not think first it was an infection, I would have gone and checked all of my set up first....make sure your temps are good (no less than 80 at all times day and night) and a basking spot of 100 degrees and daily uva and uvb exposure for this species of tort....I would also examine the type of substrate I was using and I would also examine the diet I was offering....sometimes the clicking noise is simply a sign that the enclosure/environment is too dry and is that simple...sometimes torts will click when they fuss with their beak...

The pumping action you describe when the tort is breathing is also a normal thing....as long as that pumping is not open mouth gaping for air ----

Now, understand---I am not a medical professional by any means. I do however have some practical knowledge of caring for torts as well I have done alot of research on this particular subject....so I am sharing with you what I would do...

May I see a pic of your tort? Can you make the picture of the torts face?
[/quote]
 

ascott

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Sylvia, I hope you feel alot better after all of that ...so my dear, take a breath and understand, there was no reason for you to become so worked up as a result of my opinion....you see, as you stated, we both are allowed our opinions and to share them equally....;)
 

sibi

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Well, I'm glad to hear it from you. My rants do it all the time :p
 
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