respiratory infection

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sibi

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I'm sorry skuttle. That comment was to AnnV, not to you. Her tort had a urinary tract infection and she was giving injections in the back legs. As far as the antibiotics with cortisone, sometimes that's necessary to decrease inflammation. So long as the vet gives the correct dose according to weight, it should be fine.

skuttle said:
sibi said:
There are oral antibiotics that can be administered. Most owners have trouble getting their torts to open their mouths So, it's best to hide the med in some fruit he likes. Did the vet take x-rays of his bladder? If not, I suggest it be done. You want to make sure there's no stone in his bladder.

why do you need to know if there is stone in the bladder? will RI make it worse or what? thanks


guys i remembered that brand of tetracycline mt vet is using has corticosteroid in it? is corticosteroids safe? thanks




Angela, her tortoise has a RI since there was mucus found coming from the nose and mouth. There is no reason why a tort would be producing mucus other than from a RI or some obstruction. In addition, if the mucus is yellowish, this is even more evidence of an infection rather than an obstruction. The tort did need to go to a vet and be put on antibiotics. Holding back from seeing a vet could cost her the life of her tortoise. Yes, all of what you said is stressful, but better to put the tort under a little stress, and be on the road to recovery than to lose him from pneumonia.

Also, antibiotics has to be injected into the muscle in order to be most effective. Injecting into soft tissue isn't gonna cut it. It's when true with humans. Also, washing the enclosure and replacing the substrate is all that needs to happen so that he's not gonna get re-infected. I think she's done that already.
 

skuttle

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sibi said:
I'm sorry skuttle. That comment was to AnnV, not to you. Her tort had a urinary tract infection and she was giving injections in the back legs. As far as the antibiotics with cortisone, sometimes that's necessary to decrease inflammation. So long as the vet gives the correct dose according to weight, it should be fine.

skuttle said:
sibi said:
There are oral antibiotics that can be administered. Most owners have trouble getting their torts to open their mouths So, it's best to hide the med in some fruit he likes. Did the vet take x-rays of his bladder? If not, I suggest it be done. You want to make sure there's no stone in his bladder.

why do you need to know if there is stone in the bladder? will RI make it worse or what? thanks


guys i remembered that brand of tetracycline mt vet is using has corticosteroid in it? is corticosteroids safe? thanks




Angela, her tortoise has a RI since there was mucus found coming from the nose and mouth. There is no reason why a tort would be producing mucus other than from a RI or some obstruction. In addition, if the mucus is yellowish, this is even more evidence of an infection rather than an obstruction. The tort did need to go to a vet and be put on antibiotics. Holding back from seeing a vet could cost her the life of her tortoise. Yes, all of what you said is stressful, but better to put the tort under a little stress, and be on the road to recovery than to lose him from pneumonia.

Also, antibiotics has to be injected into the muscle in order to be most effective. Injecting into soft tissue isn't gonna cut it. It's when true with humans. Also, washing the enclosure and replacing the substrate is all that needs to happen so that he's not gonna get re-infected. I think she's done that already.



So far his doing well eating and walking around. He is still the pig few days ba k before the first injection. I noticed the clicking and croaking sounds he does when opening his mouth increased. But the way his acting it doesnt look like his sick. By the way noticed also he vomits mucus (not sure if its just saliva but its bubble)everytime after he gets a shot. He had his second shot yesterday. Tomorrow is his third. Im soaking him thrice a day or twice with warm qater for 15 to 20 minutes to make sure he doesnt get dehydrated because kinda increased the temp of enclosure. He drinks a lot of water btw also. Everytime he eats a meal he drinks twice or thrice from the bowl till he finishes the greens.
I was thinking maybe his throat kinda clogged by mucus so he drinks a lot to drain it away so he can eat better ?
 

skuttle

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Hi guys can i ask how many shots or hiw many days till you can see results or you can say if the antibiotics are effective? Im giving ne tortoise oxytetracycline with corticosteroid. been three shots 5 days of antibiotics. He still does the croak sound often.
 

sibi

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It depends on the tort and how bad the RI is. Did a vet prescribe the antibiotics? Is the meds being injected every other day for five days or ten? If so, the vet or you should see some improvement soon. Things aren't getting worse, are they? I would not worry about the croaking sound he's making with his mouth for now. Let's just see if the RI clears up first.
 

skuttle

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sibi said:
It depends on the tort and how bad the RI is. Did a vet prescribe the antibiotics? Is the meds being injected every other day for five days or ten? If so, the vet or you should see some improvement soon. Things aren't getting worse, are they? I would not worry about the croaking sound he's making with his mouth for now. Let's just see if the RI clears up first.

Yup the vet prescribed the antibiotics. Been three shots already every other day sp that males it 5 days now since the antibiotics is on his system. Chomp still eats but not like 5 days ago that he eats all i put in his enclosure and his kot that muh active now since the treatment. What do you mean by getting worse? If im not mistaken lower RI at later stage tortoise gasp air right every minutes right? Like they cant breath, do not move at all and dont eat right? So far i just see those symptoms before treatment like openinh mouth and croaking plus eats less than before and not that muh active.
 

sibi

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You have to remember your tort is recovering from a RI a d their system works real slow. That means the meds are still working its way into his system and it's gonna take time for him to be his old self again. I say, perhaps two weeks after he finishes his meds, you should see him much better. By worse, I mean if he stops eating, drinking, peeing, pooping, and does nothing all day long. That would be getting worse not better, right? Thankfully, he's reacting just like he should...getting better but isn't quite the same as before yet. So, keep making him comfortable, feed him fresh food daily, and administer his meds until it's finished.
 

skuttle

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Thanks ma'am really hopin he gets well. Can i ask if RI is really contagious? I read that easily transmitable? I have sulcata hatchling in the same room but different enclosure but quite near.Do you think as
Long as i dont use same enclosure dishes soaking tub etc it wont get transmitted.
 

sibi

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It's good that you have all your torts separated. So long as you clean your hands and use separate bowls, your sulcatas should be fine. It's a good habit to have anyway even if your sick tort wasn't sick. Keep us posted on his progress.
 

ascott

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Angela, her tortoise has a RI since there was mucus found coming from the nose and mouth. There is no reason why a tort would be producing mucus other than from a RI or some obstruction. In addition, if the mucus is yellowish, this is even more evidence of an infection rather than an obstruction. The tort did need to go to a vet and be put on antibiotics. Holding back from seeing a vet could cost her the life of her tortoise. Yes, all of what you said is stressful, but better to put the tort under a little stress, and be on the road to recovery than to lose him from pneumonia.

Sylvia, I do not agree with you here, but that is alright---our experience is different. However, a RI was "guess" as the vet did not do proper testing to assure a diagnosis--this unfortunately is too common place and this error can cause antibiotics to be given and if there is no diagnoses RI then what ever (if anything) can be masked and can then lead someone to think all is fine only to flare up worse later....so, there is no diagnosis here for RI. Antibiotics are very very rough on the system of a tortoise..therefore, a true diagnosis should have been acquired before a "lets try this" treatment was offered. There are other reasons mucus can develop, if the animal has an injury within the mouth or throat then mucus can emerge--a different method of treatment can be offered in that case....so, yes, there are other reasons for mucus. Putting "a little" stress on a tort is one thing, but a toss into the car, then being forced in place while some vet probes and pokes and inserts a needle into a tort is well, a very intrusive amount of stress.

Also, antibiotics has to be injected into the muscle in order to be most effective. Injecting into soft tissue isn't gonna cut it. It's when true with humans. Also, washing the enclosure and replacing the substrate is all that needs to happen so that he's not gonna get re-infected. I think she's done that already.

Again, we are in a huge disagreement here....injection into the muscle of a tortoise leg can and does cause permanent damage--it can cripple a tortoise, especially if given in the rear legs---the animal receives the same benefit from the medication injected into the loose skin ---please do your research thoroughly when discussing this---it is nowhere like that of treating a human.

I would be most shocked by the last part of your statement....please understand that if a tort is truly tested and diagnosed with an URI then the entire enclosure equipment should be discarded---and if the tort has occupied an outdoor space, then that space should not be used by that or any other tort for at least a full year....please understand that I know what I am talking about on these two last points....I am not trying to be whatever, but do need this to be stated clearly so that hazardous info is not spread about....also, when we treat a tort that has a diagnosed URI--that tort is not being cured of the disease, it is simply having the symptoms relieved...the disease remains forever with the tort...
 

mikeh

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amen!

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skuttle

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Hi ma'am ascott, can i ask how can you diagnose RI? My problem is in our country vets just examine physically the tortoise. No test are being done loke x ray or other stuff. I noticed my tortoise before having antibiotics opens mouth like smacking his jaw sometimes but not always. and sometimes also makes a croaking sound while doing the smacking thing. i noticed him doing that quite often when his stressed like trying to eacape the enclosure or soaking in water in the sun. My vet checked the mouth when he sedated him but didnt find anything stuck. But when i had the vet injected tetracycline with steroid i noticed him after drinking water and eating breathes through his mouth now. Like his catching his breath after drinking and eating a mouthfull of greens. What do you think? Is it really RI? But never seen mucus on his nose and mouth before the shots. Just saw mucus after injection of the sedative to make him sleep. And everytime he os given the shots in his chess muscle area below the head
 

ascott

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Signs include a mucopurulent discharge from the nares, puffy eyelids, eyes recessed into the orbits, and dullness to the skin and scutes.

Does this sound like your tort....think about it quickly and think does this fit your tort BEFORE the vet visit?

http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/wptortois...t-disease/

This is a good reference for explanation/overview of this affliction....please do read all of it...while it does indicate Desert Tortoise in the title, when you read on you will see it also can affect a variety of tortoise species...

I wonder, if the solution that your vet used in trying to clear the nostrils in itself did not create the discharge due to irritation..this can happen and if the vet is not very experienced with tortoise then could be mis read as something it is not.....

I apologize, but if I were you and had a tort that had some clicking I would not think first it was an infection, I would have gone and checked all of my set up first....make sure your temps are good (no less than 80 at all times day and night) and a basking spot of 100 degrees and daily uva and uvb exposure for this species of tort....I would also examine the type of substrate I was using and I would also examine the diet I was offering....sometimes the clicking noise is simply a sign that the enclosure/environment is too dry and is that simple...sometimes torts will click when they fuss with their beak...

The pumping action you describe when the tort is breathing is also a normal thing....as long as that pumping is not open mouth gaping for air ----

Now, understand---I am not a medical professional by any means. I do however have some practical knowledge of caring for torts as well I have done alot of research on this particular subject....so I am sharing with you what I would do...

May I see a pic of your tort? Can you make the picture of the torts face?
 

mikeh

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Re: RE: respiratory infection

ascott said:
Signs include a mucopurulent discharge from the nares, puffy eyelids, eyes recessed into the orbits, and dullness to the skin and scutes.

Does this sound like your tort....think about it quickly and think does this fit your tort BEFORE the vet visit?

http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/wptortois...t-disease/

This is a good reference for explanation/overview of this affliction....please do read all of it...while it does indicate Desert Tortoise in the title, when you read on you will see it also can affect a variety of tortoise species...

I wonder, if the solution that your vet used in trying to clear the nostrils in itself did not create the discharge due to irritation..this can happen and if the vet is not very experienced with tortoise then could be mis read as something it is not.....

I apologize, but if I were you and had a tort that had some clicking I would not think first it was an infection, I would have gone and checked all of my set up first....make sure your temps are good (no less than 80 at all times day and night) and a basking spot of 100 degrees and daily uva and uvb exposure for this species of tort....I would also examine the type of substrate I was using and I would also examine the diet I was offering....sometimes the clicking noise is simply a sign that the enclosure/environment is too dry and is that simple...sometimes torts will click when they fuss with their beak...

The pumping action you describe when the tort is breathing is also a normal thing....as long as that pumping is not open mouth gaping for air ----

Now, understand---I am not a medical professional by any means. I do however have some practical knowledge of caring for torts as well I have done alot of research on this particular subject....so I am sharing with you what I would do...

May I see a pic of your tort? Can you make the picture of the torts face?

I believe the concern begin with the pictures of what OP thought were puffy eyes. Also concern was empty chewing seen in last 15 seconds of his radiated torts video. Can any experts look at the pics again and the video. This empty chewing is not gasping for air, breathing is normal, it is seen in healthy individuals, but I have seen same behavior in RI where tort is trying to chew often to clear mucus from back of its mouth.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=o0s86p&s=5

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skuttle

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ascott said:
Signs include a mucopurulent discharge from the nares, puffy eyelids, eyes recessed into the orbits, and dullness to the skin and scutes.

Does this sound like your tort....think about it quickly and think does this fit your tort BEFORE the vet visit?

http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/wptortois...t-disease/

This is a good reference for explanation/overview of this affliction....please do read all of it...while it does indicate Desert Tortoise in the title, when you read on you will see it also can affect a variety of tortoise species...

I wonder, if the solution that your vet used in trying to clear the nostrils in itself did not create the discharge due to irritation..this can happen and if the vet is not very experienced with tortoise then could be mis read as something it is not.....

I apologize, but if I were you and had a tort that had some clicking I would not think first it was an infection, I would have gone and checked all of my set up first....make sure your temps are good (no less than 80 at all times day and night) and a basking spot of 100 degrees and daily uva and uvb exposure for this species of tort....I would also examine the type of substrate I was using and I would also examine the diet I was offering....sometimes the clicking noise is simply a sign that the enclosure/environment is too dry and is that simple...sometimes torts will click when they fuss with their beak...

The pumping action you describe when the tort is breathing is also a normal thing....as long as that pumping is not open mouth gaping for air ----

Now, understand---I am not a medical professional by any means. I do however have some practical knowledge of caring for torts as well I have done alot of research on this particular subject....so I am sharing with you what I would do...

May I see a pic of your tort? Can you make the picture of the torts face?

i'll try to take photos tom ma'am angela thanks! here is my opinion. i have read the link you sent me. like i said i just got the tortoise few weeks back. my primarily concern back then was the smacking of the jaw that my tortoise was doing like he was using his toungue to clear his mouth/throat sometimes with sound usually with no sounds. after the vet injected the sedative i noticed sticky white substance dripping from his mouth and creating bubbles from his nose. also after the second shot also i noticed while he enclosed his head with his legs due to the pain i guess of the shot. sticky bubbly stuff was dripping in between his front legs which covers his head. after the shots i noticed also there is now clicking sound and the breathing to mouth after eating became prevalent but not to the point that his gasping for air and stretching his neck. its just like after jogging you tend to breath from your mouth rather from your nose but only for a while. the link you showed me was regarding upper respiratory infection right? correct me if im mistaken but i have read that there is an upper and lower respiratory infection and based on what i have read. usually upper have the mucus on nostrils and lower respiratory infection symptoms is just open mouth breathing. my tortoise has clear eyes and nostrils. that made me think that maybe he has lower respiratory infection. hence he has the clicking and croaking sound plus the smacking with the jaw trying to clear his throat of mucus. that made me believe that when my vet used an aspirator to blow his nose plenty of mucus dripped from his mouth and nose. maybe he has many mucus before i got him so he does that smacking thing to clears his throat with somtimes croaking sound.


mikeh said:
ascott said:
Signs include a mucopurulent discharge from the nares, puffy eyelids, eyes recessed into the orbits, and dullness to the skin and scutes.

Does this sound like your tort....think about it quickly and think does this fit your tort BEFORE the vet visit?

http://www.tortoise-tracks.org/wptortois...t-disease/

This is a good reference for explanation/overview of this affliction....please do read all of it...while it does indicate Desert Tortoise in the title, when you read on you will see it also can affect a variety of tortoise species...

I wonder, if the solution that your vet used in trying to clear the nostrils in itself did not create the discharge due to irritation..this can happen and if the vet is not very experienced with tortoise then could be mis read as something it is not.....

I apologize, but if I were you and had a tort that had some clicking I would not think first it was an infection, I would have gone and checked all of my set up first....make sure your temps are good (no less than 80 at all times day and night) and a basking spot of 100 degrees and daily uva and uvb exposure for this species of tort....I would also examine the type of substrate I was using and I would also examine the diet I was offering....sometimes the clicking noise is simply a sign that the enclosure/environment is too dry and is that simple...sometimes torts will click when they fuss with their beak...

The pumping action you describe when the tort is breathing is also a normal thing....as long as that pumping is not open mouth gaping for air ----

Now, understand---I am not a medical professional by any means. I do however have some practical knowledge of caring for torts as well I have done alot of research on this particular subject....so I am sharing with you what I would do...

May I see a pic of your tort? Can you make the picture of the torts face?

I believe the concern begin with the pictures of what OP thought were puffy eyes. Also concern was empty chewing seen in last 15 seconds of his radiated torts video. Can any experts look at the pics again and the video. This empty chewing is not gasping for air, breathing is normal, it is seen in healthy individuals, but I have seen same behavior in RI where tort is trying to chew often to clear mucus from back of its mouth.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=o0s86p&s=5

sent from mobile device using TFO app
thanks mikeh! yup thats what im telling about it looks like his using his tongue to remove something from the mouth or throat. his eyes and nose is clear from any discharge that made me think he might have lower respiratory infection just caught on early stage? what do you think? what bothers me now is i really cant google any article regarding if lower respiratory infection can be cured or when the symptoms disappear he still will have it inside him? i mean can tortoise be cured of lower RI or the antibiotics just alleviates them from the symptoms and you just prolong there life? any opinions>?
 

ascott

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My final word to you would be....get the tortoise tested properly to find out what is truly ailing him..... get an xray done to to determine if the issue is LRTD and if clear there then have the tort tested to see if URTD present....do this and find out if there is a real issue .... An internal abscess can be present and offer up the result you have described...I mean there are so many variables...

There could be so many things in play here and for us to simply guess and online diagnose is a stretch.....I can only offer what I know just as the others....you will have to have this tort tested to find out if there is an actual illness...

There is no way for someone here to "tell you" what the diagnosis is....just not possible.....but we can only offer what we believe to be the issue....
 

skuttle

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I understand ma'am thanks. We
Dont have trst here to know if its urti or lrti they just do
Physical symptoms of tortoise having RI and give shots. Got no choice but to give the shot tather than waiting and if things gets worse might be hard to treat. How long usually do
Antibiotics given? I have had him given 4 shots already every other day. 0.12 cc of oxytetracycline.
 

Sulcata_Sandy

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The veterinarian who prescribed the antibiotics should have explained the course of treatment.
Generally, antibiotics are given to reptiles for 14 to 21 days. I suggest you call the hospital you took him to, and have the technician check with the doctor or refer to the chart notes as to his/her treatment plan.

I would also strongly suggest an X-ray of your tort to either find or rule out pneumonia, or even detect early lung changes from respiratory disease. As stated above, no one can diagnose online, and it is actually illegal to do so. Diagnoses should only be given by a licensed DVM who is experienced in that animal (whether cat, dog, horse, camel or tortoise).

Any veterinary hospital, whether or not they have experience with reptiles, can radiograph a tortoise and forward the films to a Board Certified Radiologist who will review the films and submit a detailed written report with treatment recommendations. It is really not that costly.
If you did this at my practice, it would be less than $200.
 

skuttle

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SenjiSandy said:
The veterinarian who prescribed the antibiotics should have explained the course of treatment.
Generally, antibiotics are given to reptiles for 14 to 21 days. I suggest you call the hospital you took him to, and have the technician check with the doctor or refer to the chart notes as to his/her treatment plan.

I would also strongly suggest an X-ray of your tort to either find or rule out pneumonia, or even detect early lung changes from respiratory disease. As stated above, no one can diagnose online, and it is actually illegal to do so. Diagnoses should only be given by a licensed DVM who is experienced in that animal (whether cat, dog, horse, camel or tortoise).

Any veterinary hospital, whether or not they have experience with reptiles, can radiograph a tortoise and forward the films to a Board Certified Radiologist who will review the films and submit a detailed written report with treatment recommendations. It is really not that costly.
If you did this at my practice, it would be less than $200.
thanks senjisandy, regarding the course of treatment he told me till 5 shots. but kinda worried if my tortoise dont get well with 5 shots since i have read its like 7 to 10 shots usually. i would have wasted those first 5 shots. im not sure with reptiles or tortoise for that matter. if your gonna reinject you will start again with the firt shot to the last so it will be big load to his liver and kidney. so i was thinking to give till 7 to 10 shots to be sure if people here will say its safe to give them that many. regarding the xray we dont have a board certified radiologist who do that in animals. the vets are the one who diagnose via the x ray and regarding experience im not to sure regarding reptiles but dogs and cats im sure they are experts.
 

johnreuk

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It's disturbing that there is some real misinformation here......
Regarding antibiotics and there action, and method of administration, I would advise you ask a qualified vet for an explanation. While I think this forum is excellent, and the advice is usually similarly top notch, it is worrying that some people are doling out medical advise when they are not qualified to do so, and in several cases the information is incorrect.
Antibiotics do not always need to be injected into muscle to be effective.
However, intramuscular injections ARE indicated in some cases, and it is not going to kill the tortoise or cause its leg permanent damage (but there are always risks to any injection in any animal)
It depends on what antibiotic is being prescribed, as to what is the most effective route of administration.
Several people seem to be under the impression that 'antibiotics' are all the same.... they are very much not... they all have different indications, different mechanisms of action, side effects, and similarly different routes of administration.

I agree with senji sandy.... you should ask the vet about the course of antibiotics, and refer to them for medical advise of this nature.
 
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