Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??(warning-picture is graphic, not for the squeamish)

[Floof]

Okay, so, I guess I rescued a tortoise today! ... But I have little idea on how to care for one.

Some back story: The previous owners have had "Zoom" for about 3 years now. (The tortoise is about 3 and a half years old now.) They purchased "her" at a local pet store (that has since closed down) called Scamps that was pretty infamous for taking terrible care of their animals. The store sold her as a "Desert Land Tortoise."

A friend of mine from school told me about her (and about how they'd been thinking about finding her a new home) on Halloween, so I've been researching tortoises ever since.. Kind of, anyway. Browsing these forums, glancing at Sulcata care sheets, wondering what species of tortoise would make the best "pet" for me and my situation (I like tortoises... Lol!)... Anyway. Zoom belonged to the friend's younger brother, who was taking terrible care of her. Neglecting to clean her enclosure, mostly. I went down to the friend's house today JUST to look, since I'd promised to help them rehome her (and maayyybe act as a halfway-house in the meantime). Her conditions were absolutely appalling! So, needless to say, I dragged the friend back up to my house (she'd been wanting to meet the snakes and beardie) to help me whip up some temporary situation for the little tort.

They've been feeding Zoom romaine lettuce, cactus pad, and tortoise bites (the mushy ones--by "Nature Zone," I think). She's been housed (most recently, anyway) in a 20H aquarium. No lights, a little unregulated heat pad stuck to the bottom for heat, and a very dirty piece of "Repticarpet" for substrate. When she got here, she was covered in feces. She used to have lighting (whether it was UVB or not, I have no clue) but, because the house was "too hot," the brother removed it during the summer and hadn't replaced it... Probably the biggest surprise was there's no sign of pyramiding (that I can see) on this little tort's shell!

I would've gotten a picture of the previous enclosure, but I didn't have my camera with me at the time...

The "temporary" enclosure I put together for Zoom is a 106 qt Rubbermaid tub. Paper towel substrate, a cardboard shoe box for a hide, and an incandescent bulb for heat (60 watt, I think--forgot to check..). She doesn't seem to be hungry at the moment, but I have beardie salad (Current batch is: Collard greens, Cactus pad, parsnip, snap peas, a bit of okra, and, in this batch, a bit of beet greens, all cut/ripped into bite-sized pieces) and the aforementioned "Tortoise Bites". I have Repcal w/ D3 (No Phosphorus) and Herptivite multivitamins to mix in. The salads also normally contain squash (Acorn or Butternut), and I try to add dandelion greens whenever we can get out of town to get them... I also use mustard greens and green beans, often switching these with or using them in addition to the parsnip and snap peas. I'm working on the UVB issue... I've been wanting to upgrade the beardie to a Mercury-Vapor Bulb, anyway, and his UVB bulb (Reptisun 10.0) still has a few more months of life (I usually dump them after 6 months, and this one's 3-4 months).

Also, I have no idea what species it is. My first guess, by the name, was Sulcata... But she looks nothing like Sulcatas I've seen on the 'net (or baby sulcatas I've seen in pet stores). The only other things I can think of are Russian tortoise (size) or Desert tortoise (name)... But I am NOT a tort person, so I'll leave ID'ing her up to you experts... =P

So, what exactly am I supposed to do here?? Temp/humidity requirements, diet, etc? How to set up the enclosure properly? Anything else you can think of for a complete newbie to torts??

Thanks!!! =)

(Attached pictures are belly (AFTER taking a toothbrush to her) and overhead (before the bath) shots, as well as one of his enclosure. Haven't gotten around to measuring his shell length just yet, but I'd hazard a guess at 5-7 inches.)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

It looks like a Russian to me...welcome to the forum...here's a care sheet for them...

http://www.russiantortoise.org/

Don't feed legumes...no peas!

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks! I'll avoid the peas from here on out...

How funny. I was actually torn between a Russian and a Redfoot if I decided I really wanted a tort. My decision's been made for me, I guess! xD

 

[Jacqui]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Yes you have a nice Russian now. The site Maggie gave you, is a really good one for Russian care. Read it over and come back here and ask any questions you still have remaining or items you need to double check on.

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks, Jacqui! I'm so relieved... I was expecting a Sulcata!! =)

I don't have any questions just yet, but I got a weight and some measurements. She weighs in at 602 g, and is 6 in (tip to tip). Her lower shell (plastron??) is a tad over 5 inches, not counting the anal scutes. =)

---

Okay, now for some questions. The care sheet linked to Carolina Pet Supply... I want to supply the best diet possible (and would like the chance to vary the beardie's diet a bit, too), so I took a look at their seed mixes. Is this Russian Tortoise mix a good choice? http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=162

If I get the mix, I think I'll go ahead and get some Dandelion seeds, too... My friend said he loves dandelion heads, and I was already hoping to start a few indoor dandelion plants for the beardie this coming spring. I would also be supplementing the diet with cactus pads and assorted greens.

I also have a bit of a heating problem. It seem the best my wimpy 60 watt (checked and confirmed, it is definitely 60 watt) can do, if anything, is nudge the hide's temps up into the lower 70s (winter=cold room). I do have a couple spare heat pads I can clean off, and some spare thermostats... Would a heat pad work to keep the temps up better while I get things sorted out? Or should she be okay until I can get a higher wattage bulb? If the heat pad, which would be best: slipping it under the tub (traditional placement), or securing it to the top of the hide? I know there's a slim to none chance that he can crawl up on top of the hide and, IME, under tank heaters are useless with beardies (same might apply to torts?), so I'm leaning toward the latter.

As for humidity: I have some bags of "Mosser Lee" Spaghnum moss laying around for use in the snakes' humid hides. The caresheet mentions their burrows can get up to 70% humidity... Should I moisten up some spaghnum and fill half of her hide?

Also have a bit of a "plan" for a more suiting enclosure. Not anything that would happen really soon, but a plan nonetheless. I've been "planning" to move the beardie in to my larger ball python's enclosure once the BP has moved into a tub enclosure, but I don't have any real use for the 75 gallon aquarium beyond that point. I can't think of a better option that's actually feasible, so I hope to retrofit the aquarium for Zoom. I know I've read around on here that the air circulation problem of aquariums can be fixed with live plants and/or an aquarium under gravel filter, so I hope to try my hand at that. Heat/UVB would be provided through a MVB.

I do want to mention now: I would do an outdoor enclosure instead, but, between my location (coastal western Washington), four dogs, and a serious paranoia about the various moles, opossums, and cats that infest my yard and neighborhood, I simply can't.

Thanks in advance! =)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks, Jacqui! I'm so relieved... I was expecting a Sulcata!! =)

I don't have any questions just yet, but I got a weight and some measurements. She weighs in at 602 g, and is 6 in (tip to tip). Her lower shell (plastron??) is a tad over 5 inches, not counting the anal scutes. =)

---

Okay, now for some questions. The care sheet linked to Carolina Pet Supply... I want to supply the best diet possible (and would like the chance to vary the beardie's diet a bit, too), so I took a look at their seed mixes. Is this Russian Tortoise mix a good choice? http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41&products_id=162

yes get the Russian tort seed mix and add a few others, but not the dandelion as they don't ever come up.

If I get the mix, I think I'll go ahead and get some Dandelion seeds, too... My friend said he loves dandelion heads, and I was already hoping to start a few indoor dandelion plants for the beardie this coming spring. I would also be supplementing the diet with cactus pads and assorted greens.

IMO cactus pads are more of a treat than a staple. Spring mix is good for them, and my Russian loves dandelions so I would suggest to roam around your neighborhood and collect some fresh dandelions for it to eat. I have bought the dandelion seeds and they just don't come up. I have had several other people tell me that same thing.

I also have a bit of a heating problem. It seem the best my wimpy 60 watt (checked and confirmed, it is definitely 60 watt) can do, if anything, is nudge the hide's temps up into the lower 70s (winter=cold room). I do have a couple spare heat pads I can clean off, and some spare thermostats... Would a heat pad work to keep the temps up better while I get things sorted out? Or should she be okay until I can get a higher wattage bulb? If the heat pad, which would be best: slipping it under the tub (traditional placement), or securing it to the top of the hide? I know there's a slim to none chance that he can crawl up on top of the hide and, IME, under tank heaters are useless with beardies (same might apply to torts?), so I'm leaning toward the latter.

No to the heat pads. He needs to bask so you want the heat coming from above so until you get a UVB bulb I suggest a 100 watt incandescent bulb. That will keep him warm and enable him to eat. I would get a 100 watt Trex bulb. That would provide the necessary heat and UVB.

As for humidity: I have some bags of "Mosser Lee" Spaghnum moss laying around for use in the snakes' humid hides. The caresheet mentions their burrows can get up to 70% humidity... Should I moisten up some spaghnum and fill half of her hide?

Russians seem to get URTI up here as it is so wet and humid, so I wouldn't use the moss. What kind of substrate are you going to use? Get a good substrate and keep it moist for him but not wet, so there's not too much humidity. I have had several people tell me that they had a Russian that died with URTI because it is too damp up here. I don't know how true that actually is. I am in the Willamette Valley so I know about rain and humidity...and my Russian lives here just fine...

Also have a bit of a "plan" for a more suiting enclosure. Not anything that would happen really soon, but a plan nonetheless. I've been "planning" to move the beardie in to my larger ball python's enclosure once the BP has moved into a tub enclosure, but I don't have any real use for the 75 gallon aquarium beyond that point. I can't think of a better option that's actually feasible, so I hope to retrofit the aquarium for Zoom. I know I've read around on here that the air circulation problem of aquariums can be fixed with live plants and/or an aquarium under gravel filter, so I hope to try my hand at that. Heat/UVB would be provided through a MVB.

I do want to mention now: I would do an outdoor enclosure instead, but, between my location (coastal western Washington), four dogs, and a serious paranoia about the various moles, opossums, and cats that infest my yard and neighborhood, I simply can't.

Thanks in advance! =)

---

Most of my animals stay outside all spring and summer. I have the predators that you mentioned so at night all my animals are locked away where the 'coons and other uglies can't get at them.
I think you need to consider a small outside enclosure, and keep the dogs away from the tortoise because most dogs think that small tortoises are good chew toys, and many turtles and tortoises get dog chewed and die, dogs and tortoises are a really hard thing to have together, you need to be super aware of the situation...I have tried to save many dog chewed chelonia and it's just an awful thing to see.

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Yay! Another PNW person! I'm up in Pacific County, WA, right around Willapa Harbor. I think our weather tends to be a bit wetter (at least, gloomier) than your area... I couldn't say for sure, though, since I've never lived in the Portland area.

Ah. I was kind of hoping cactus was on the staple end of things... We actually have a grocery store that stocks it! Spring mix? Now I'm rather confused. Aren't the salad mixes usually made up of lettuces and cabbages? I know lettuce and cabbage are generally a "no-no" for bearded dragons... Is that different for torts?

I'll hold off on the moss, then. I really should get a humidity gauge.. For how wet it is here, it always seems really dry. As for substrate, I'm still figuring that out. I'm leaning toward a coir/potting soil mix. Or something like that. I like to leave new herps on paper towel for at least a month to make sure all is well, anyway... I know that's fine for snakes, but I don't know about tortoises, so I'll keep Zoom's paper towel time down to at least one defecation and a few feedings. It'll give me the opportunity to figure stuff out, raid the department store's gardening section, and maybe get a fecal test done.

I'm not too worried about the dogs. I know to keep them away from the scaly things at all times possible, and have yet to have any sort of incident. As well, the dogs are kept securely out of the herp room when I'm not around and (this may sound dumb) I have been taking steps to "desensitize" them toward the scaly things... It's come really in handy twice so far. Teeny tiny escape artist snakes who got happy endings rather than tragic ones.

I'll try an outdoor pen for the summers (I was already planning regular trips outdoors on warm/sunny days, like I do with the beardie), but I still have serious reservations. What comes to the forefront, aside from those I already mentioned, is the fact that I'm gone 8 hours of the day and things aren't going to get better on that point any time soon (Senior year of high school)... I'll readdress the issue when early spring rolls around, but, for now, trying to figure out the outdoor enclosure dilemma is a bit moot at this time of year. We're gearing up for "flood season" now... The curse of living in a town built on a river!

 

[Yvonne G]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Hi Taylor:

to the forum!

 

[katesgoey]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Welcome to the forum!! I adopted a Russian from Yvonne that had been a chew toy and I am not letting him hibernate. I keep him in a large R u b b e r m a i d storage bin with a UVB light. Of the lettuces - Iceberg lettuce is not great but in Spring Mix they'll get the "better" leafy greens ( remove any spinach if it's in the mix). Your Russian is a very nice looking. Enjoy!

 

[Jacqui]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

The aquarium tank your thinking of using, does it have high sides or is it a low, spread out breeder type tank?

You can feed him some cactus and their fruit (pears or tunas are both names they are called). Try to stay away from fruits and most all veggies, except as an occasional item...like once or twice a month. Greens are what they need. If you can collect weeds from outside, that is even better. Such as the common dandelions, clovers, plantain to suggest a couple.

There are some differences in the Spring mixes sold at different locations, but most have no cabbages. The lettuces in them are a wider variety then the average one tortoise owner can afford to buy by themselves, which is why it's recommended (variety is key). The main lettuce to stay completely away from is iceburg. Also try to limit the amount of spinach watching for that to may be be in your Spring mix. Don't feed completely the Spring mix, some weeks instead buy perhaps a bunch of collard greens, mustard or turnip greens. Also remember the weeds or things like grape leaves, mulberry leaves, hibiscus blooms and leaves. Keep trying new things from the "good for tortoises" food lists.

As to the seed mixture, yes it's a good one.

Heat is best coming from above, but if the choice were a cold tortoise or using an UTH (under the tank heater) temporarily go with the UTH. I like using UTH to keep the moist substrate (coir/sand) warm, which also them helps it produce more humidity. Not so much for my Russians as for my Hingebacks and Redfoots.

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

The aquarium is 18 inches high... 48x18x18 inch dimensions.

Okay. I do have a small Ultratherm heat pad that would cover most of the top of the hide. Would attaching this to the top or back of the hide work? I can set that up now so she has some heat while I figure out bulb wattages...

I'll get some spring mix today to vary the diet some more, then. I gave her a good-sized collard leaf (torn into more manageable chunks), a few organic dandelion greens, and a small strip of cactus for today. Not "great," but it's literally all I have on hand (legumes and carrot aside). Is squash a good option? I have some frozen butternut (no additives), and usually have a fresh squash on hand. Would it be a good idea to thaw out a couple squares of butternut for her?

I'll go search my yard for some weeds... The dandelions have all gone dormant (I think?) for the year, but I know there's clover and some clover-looking plants (among other stuff) around the yard still. Concerning stuff from the yard: should I be avoiding the back yard, where the dogs go to the bathroom, or does it not matter?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00167S5EY/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3919096857&ref=pd_sl_51mxhvt9t9_e

Hi Taylor,
Just a suggestion for the outdoor pen next summer. I actually now have two of these end to end for Taco's winter quarters and the size is perfect for her. There's another, better idea I saw on TFO; it's a portable playpen type thing that has both sides and a top, to keep potential predators out.

Also, with the heating pad dilemma: my husband used an adhesive to lightly glue the pad to a glass piece (from an 8"x10" cheap picture frame, then placed this vertically on the outside wall of her hide, and used bracket/tab thingies to hold it in place, so it safely transmits the heat into her hide and keeps that area at about 65-70 degrees.

Welcome to the Forum and good luck with Zoom (don't let her get too close to those snakes!)

 

[K9KidsLove]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Hi...Welcome
I would avoid where the dogs have been. Their poop may carry residue from their heartworm pills and dewormers, as well as parasites.

You don't have to spend the money to get reptile specialty bulbs for heat. Just use a 100 watt household bulb in a clamp lamp. Make sure you check the temp with either a temp gun or a digital with a wire with a probe on the end. ($12 at Walmart). Leave the probe at his basking spot 45 minutes to get an accurate temp. He should have a basking spot of 85-90 and cool side about 75. Nights can be lower than dragon's. 60's is OK. They do hibernate, but it isn't recommended doing so til the 2nd year you have him to make sure he is healthy and settled first.

As far as UVB goes, the MVB is the best choice...T-Rex Active Heat or MegaRay are the best ones. ReptiSun 10 long fluorescent tube is 2nd best. Don't use any coils or compacts, nor ReptiGlo 10. They have a history of causing eye problems as well as other health problems, including being lethargic & going off their food.

It is a good idea to keep him on paper towels for a while...at least til you get a good fecal done. If his previous enclosure was dirty, he may have coccidia or protozoa. If so, you should keep him on paper towels while going thru treatment so it can be changed every time he poops.

Squash is good for them. Also pumpkin is. I use the canned 100% pumpkin, not the mix. I freeze left overs in an ice cube tray, then dump the cubes into a baggie & thaw as needed.

Russians don't need to be on wet substrate. The surface should be nearly dry, but the underneath needs to be damp, so that with a heat light over it, it is humid enough.

When it does warm up enough for him to be outside, I suggest making a wood box with a wire lid and a wire floor with bigger holes so he can eat grass without digging out the holes. Of course you will need a hide in each end so he can get out of the sun as it changes direction.

Don't forget to avoid weeds & grass that have pesticides or fertilizers on it. Have you seen the post with the safe weeds listed?

You are going to enjoy him. They are very personable
Good luck
Patsy

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks, Stephanie and Patsy! I'll keep both of those in mind. The more I think about it, the more I realize how tricky the outdoor enclosure is going to be. I don't trust the front yard and the dogs have free reign of the back... Oh well. I'll start planning once I'm done putting together a good "permanent" indoor enclosure.

I've been going by the edible & toxic lists on the Russian tort site. I wasn't aware there's one here... I'll go look at it.

So far, I've put a heat pad on the top of the hide. The very top of the hide, on the inside, will only get up to 85--down at the tort's level, probably 80. There's still a problem, though: it would seem, when my room is warm enough for it, the basking light CAN get the basking spot into the 80s. Should I move the hide under the basking spot to push the temps there closer to 90? Or should I leave it as-is?

 

[tortoisenerd]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Hi there! Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new tort. You have some great advice here.

I really suggest you get some UVB on that tort asap. If you get a MVB, that is likely the only bulb you need, saving money on fixtures and electricity. It provides heat, UVB, and light. The T-Rex or Mega Ray brands are best. The $50 bulb lasts 12 months, vs. 6 for the tubes. I suggest a 100 watt MVB, plus a lamp stand to adjust the height (these cannot be clamped to the side as they need to have the bulb face parallel to the substrate), plus a hood fixture as deep and wide as you can get (10 inch diameter is best). Even in winter in my cold house, I can get a good gradient from the bulb and have temperatures from 70-95 (what you should aim for). 80s is too cold as they need to be in the 80s to even digest food, but into the 90s to thrive. Then if you need more heat, add a ceramic heat emitter or black light bulb, but make sure no spot in the enclosure is over 100 or under 70. At night temperatures in the 60s are great. You should have at a bare minimum a cooler hide and a warmer hide. The larger enclosure the better. I suggest building a tort table eventually (wood box) as I find every commercial plastic tub to be too small, even the 50 gallon ones. Think of something maybe 4 ft by 3 ft for example.

You tort may be full grown or close to it--at first glance I didn't see much of a growth ring. I very very highly doubt she is 3.5 years old. A 3.5 year old tort for example may be 3-4 inches, but not 6. I wouldn't be surprised if your friend got her from a pet store at about 4 inches (the minimum size for import, and they can fit more torts in a shipping container this way), wild caught. Just a guess though. Someone else should pop in soon and give a verification of the sex. Some female Russians will get up to 11 inches, but for a female 6 inches would be on the small size (this would be more the average male size if full grown). 8-9 inches would be more typical for a female.

I highly highly suggest you take her for a vet check up, and more importantly, take a fecal sample for a test for parasites. The vet visit would be more so to get a professional opinion of her well being, get another opinion on husbandry, and establish her as a patient for any future emergencies (they will then be much more willing to fit you in at a short notice). Torts under the stress of poor conditions and new homes tend to have a parasite overload, which needs ot be treated because if they get sick on top of that, it is bad for them. All torts typically have some small level of some parasites, but in certain conditions in captivity they get out of control. A check up may run $50-60, plus a $15 fecal test plus if you need meds $20-30. Just a guess from my experience. I think of it as an investment in my tort's long and healthy life.

I recommend pure calcium with no D3 once you have UVB. You can overdose the tort on D3 because they make it from UVB and it is fat soluble. The pure calcium supplement for an adult tort is appropriate every other day unless you think she is deprived, then you may want to do daily for awhile. You can also offer a cuttlebone. Some like it, some don't. It will usually fit for a couple months before they touch it if they ever will (theory is they don't like the fish smell).

I think you should ditch that commercial food. The only ones I would ever recommend, and only for a very small part of the diet, would be Mazuri Tortoise Diet or ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food. You should also ditch the vitamin supplement as you can overdo that. It is so tough to know how much is too much. I suggest either only having a varied diet, or if you wish, Carolina Pet Supply sells an awesome supplement called Total Nutrition for Tortoises (TNT). It is just an all natural powder of ground up weeds and healthy stuff. They also sell a version with probiotics. It is just a green powder you can sprinkle on the food. This way you don't need to worry that you are giving too much of a vitamin supplement, and it is all natural stuff like the tort would get in the wild. I try to use it every other day, but it is something you couldn't overdo.

No parsnips, okra, peas, cabbage, or similar. I agree with about 50% spring mix and 50% other greens and weeds (all weeds if you could manage, but doesn't sound like it). Do watch you don't only feed greens such as mustard, collard, and dandelion, as those are all high in oxalic acid and steal calcium as well as increasing urates.

I agree you should focus right now on the heat, then UVB, then substrate before you focus on much of anything else. That heat pad should only be a very temporary solution. Those are not recommended as torts get their heat from above, and they can be dangerous as they can overheat a small tort. We prefer the bulbs here. The temperatures and lack of UVB is what worries me right now.

Russians very rarely pyramid so I am not surprised her shell looks good. I have only once ever seen a pyramided tort. Although lack of humidity has been found as the main cause of pyramiding in torts, for Russians, it seems like the secondary causes of pyramiding are what will cause it if it ever happens (poor diet and lack of exercise).

Does her beak look overgrown? Another side note is you don't need to chop her food. Leaves the size of spring mix are great and will make her work at it a bit. A slate tile is great to feed on as it will trim the beak and nails. You need a large water dish for her to completely soak in. For the next couple weeks I would suggest to soak her every other day in baby bath warm water, up to a level to where her upper and lower shells meet. I imagine she is dehydrated.

I'm also in Washington. Not much of a season to have a tort outdoors here. I don't take mine (a little Russian) out until it is 75 F. Since he only gets to be out on weekends, that is very few times a year here. Best wishes. You are doing awesome! Looking forward to chatting with you again soon. Don't feel overwhelmed. This is a lot to take on at once. I think torts are quite complicated, and those in our world don't really understand.

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks, Kate!

Luckily, I'm used to complicated herps and already have a herp vet whose prices I'm familiar with. I already suspect she may have parasites--between what has been said here and, apparently, she's been having diarrhea (spoke again with the friend today).

I could very easily be wrong about her age. The pet store told them she was only a few months old when they got her a little over 3 years ago. She's also grown "very fast" (according to the friend) since they got her, though her growth recently slowed down. I'll ask how big she was when they got her... I wouldn't put it past the store they got her from to sell her as a CB hatchling when she's actually a WC juvenile. (I also wouldn't put it past said store to sell a CB hatchling at under 4 inches.) =P

The only reason her first couple meals with me were chopped up was because I threw her some of the beardie's salad, which I always have chopped up pretty finely... For the last two days, though, I've been giving her full Dandelion (store-bought) leaves, collard greens (ripped into manageable pieces), and some Hawkbit leaves from the yard. I also gave her two chunks of butternut squash today (she LOVED it!) and a strip of cactus yesterday... If I'm understanding this right, the cactus AND squash would be "occasional/treat" foods, right?

Consider the commercial food ditched! I was going to use it to attract her to the salads, but she seems to be doing fine without (keep forgetting it, heh)... I think I'll go the TNT route, since, spring mix aside, it would seem all my options are too sweet or too high in oxalic acid... I did buy some "Organic" spring mix today; just have to pick out the spinach. =P

The UVB issue is solved, for now... I picked up a light fixture and put my beardie's old Reptisun 10.0 tube (~6 mo. old) on her. Not great, and it's certainly at the very end of its life, but I figure it's better than nothing until I can get a better bulb. I also gave her a cuttlebone, but she seems more interested in standing on it than eating it... Lol. We also got 100 watt bulbs for heat today, but neither of my 150-watt fixtures work.

I'm not a tort person, but, to my untrained eyes, her beak looks fine. Her nails might be a bit overgrown (again... Untrained eyes), but I'll leave that judgment to the vet when I can get her in.

After reading the "Ikea Bookshelf Enclosure" thread, I decided to tear down an unused bookshelf and fix it up for Zoom. It's about 5.5 feet tall (long), ~2 feet wide, and a foot deep. I just need to get a shower curtain to line it with, and it'll be "done." Certainly better than the tub! =)

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

I'm a little worried...

I got home from school today to find that Zoom had defecated. Yaaay! But, wait. Why is it red? That's right. A few chunks (which had landed on the paper towel--I couldn't tell if those in the water dish fell into this category) were red... She defecated yesterday, too, though, and it wasn't red then. Could it be because of her food? The last two days, she's gotten "Organicgirl" Spring Mix (of course, after every last spinach-looking piece was picked out)... There is really a good amount of red romaine lettuce in the mix. Could this be the cause? Should I be worried??

I also have another, somewhat unrelated question: How often can/should I feed squash? She LOVED the two chunks I gave her the other day, but I haven't given her any since because I'm not sure. Should it be a regular (as in weekly, bi-weekly...) addition to the meal, or just an occasional treat?

On a lighter note, she has an amazing appetite! (When I'm not in the room, anyway.. She's shy, too.) Whatever I put in front of her, she eats, even if the pile is bigger than her. I really love an animal that eats! =)

 

[tortoisenerd]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

The only time I have encounter red poop is when I fed my tortoise a lot of flowers. Was all of it red, or were there red chunks or striations? Do you think it could be blood? If there is nothing in the diet you can think of (this may have even been from before you got her as it takes a bit of time to digest stuff), then you may want to think the worst and get that fecal sample and the tort in to the vet immediately. Any other symptoms? I have never known red or purple lettuce to change the poop color.

Yes, cactus and squash are occasional treats, although great foods (fruits are on my never feed list for example, although some would consider them treats to feed less often then squash and cactus). I think cactus is the only fruit that is good to feed. You may be able to find spring mix without the spinach. Some stores carry it. Many tortoises will ignore the cuttlebone for a couple months and then attack it, others ignore it eternally. As long as you are giving pure calcium powder on the food (it is of my opinion to give no D3 if you have UVB) on a regular basis (every other or every third day is good for her size). Glad to hear you will take her to the vet. That is so important.

A slate tile should help both the beak and nails. Rocks in the enclosure can also help nails. If they are not too bad, then I would advise to try the natural means before having them trimmed. The nails should have a bit of curvature to them, longer than for example a dog's nails, but not too much.

That enclosure will be a great size! The only thing I worry about is the height. You need at least 6 inches of substrate, and by then the tortoise would be able to climb out, without even using the cage furnishings. You likely need something more like 18 inches high to have the substrate and the safety from climbing out. Russians are very very adept climbers and they have been known to get out of enclosures which the owners would never think they could get out. Better safe than sorry especially since enclosure should be kept up off the ground because of drafts/temperatures, and it is quite a drop for them.

If you can't find a bookcase which is deeper (taller when set on its back), then think about building a tort table. I got wood pre-cut for me at Home Depot and it was quite easy, even without any tools. We just nailed it together, tapped down the nails and filled in the holes so it was pretty, and put in brackets for extra structural support.

I would feed squash as maybe 1/3 of a meal once a week. This opinion varies though. That is awesome she is eating. A very good sign. The vet may be able to give you an opinion on her weight in proportion to her shell length (Straight Carapace Length, SCL). Many owners need to restrict the amount of food they feed Russians as they can be quite the little piggies. In the wild they will gorge whenever they find food. In captivity in an enclosure and with plentiful food, they will easily become overweight. Some people will only allow their tortoise what they eat in one sitting, or 20 minutes. I wouldn't cut back on her food quite yet though until you have reason to believe she is overweight.

If you want to provide some pictures some members here can try to sex her. You would want a shot of her backside focusing on the tail, plus one of her on her back focusing on the lower part of the shell and tail.

Here is a growth chart for Russians which can give you an idea of how she is doing. I recommend weighing and measuring her monthly to keep an eye on her weight and SCL (I want to say growth but I'm not sure if she is still growing). Typically we measure in millimeters and weigh in grams. You can get a postal or food scale if you can find one that has a large enough range for her. Weight loss can be a sign of health problems including parasites, which is why it is recommended to weigh a tortoise regularly.

 

[Floof]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Thanks again, Kate!!

Her regular diet in her previous home was romaine, some cactus, moist tortoise bites (orange and brown), and, when available, a lot of dandelion flowers. Could tortoise bites, dandelion flowers, or squash be the cause? She didn't get any squash until I got her, but it's certainly been a few days and she got a good amount of it... There's a list of the Tortoise bites ingredients here, if it helps: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00061URJW/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

She defecated again today, and I got a better look at it. It almost appeared that there were two different textures and colors of fecal matter in each chunk--almost swirled or netted, dark and solid with lighter, reddish, and (or so it appeared) softer. This was without the distraction of red fluid--most of the poo landed on the bare bottom of the tub, where she then seems to have sat on top of it until I got home and cleaned it up. The chunks that did land on the paper towel had the redness seeping out again.

I think she might have chowed down on some cuttlebone today. When I cleaned her tub, I only found some traces of the hard backing from the inch-or-two chunk I'd left there.

I'm giving her a glazed ceramic tile to feed/bask on, once the dishwasher's done with it... I'm planning on having plenty of slate in her enclosure once fecals are done and I can put her in the tort table on some "real" substrate.

I was wondering about the height. I've been wondering what exactly to do--buy another, identical unit and attach it to the top of this one, to add another 9 inches? Scrap this project and get something better? Cut up the spare shelves and glue/nail them along the top to prevent climbing...? I'm leaning toward the first, now, if they need that much substrate. It would seem every bookcase more than 12 inches deep is a LOT more expensive than picking up another $30 bookcase. I'm saving my crappy "DIY" skills for when she needs another upgrade.. =)

Going by your graph, she's maybe slightly underweight. She's about 6 inches SCL (Metric converter says 152 mm) and a little over 600 grams. Hey, look at that! Another reason to upgrade my crappy scale. =D

What about greens and spring mix, in general? How much spring mix is "good," and how much is "too much"? How much dandelion/collard/mustard/etc greens should I mix in? Goodness, I can't WAIT to get that seed mix... Sigh.

 

[K9KidsLove]

RE: Rescuing a tortoise... Need some help??

Hi...For your bookcase enclosure...get some 1" x 4" pieces of pine boards the length & width of the book case. Nail/screw them on top of the sides for an overhang so they can't crawl out.
Good luck
Patsy