Reporting a Local Pet Store

ChloeCrull

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Hey guys. I'm sorry, but I need to vent!

A local pet shop that specializes in aquatics posted in a sales group (our local Craigslist Facebook page) and mentioned that they received a bunch of sulcata hatchlings. They mentioned how cute they were and what great pets they make. I commented on the post, asking the shop to please ensure that the customers understand how big sulcata tortoises grow to be and how much care they need to avoid more sulcatas being dumped at rescues. I came across the post today to see that they deleted my comment.

It is pretty obvious that they just want to sell these animals and do not want people to be deterred by their adult size and housing requirements, which would hinder their sales. I am really worried about these little babies and I am quite infuriated.

Come to think of it, I believe there is a law that turtles and tortoises cannot be sold if they are under 4 inches. I want to march down there tomorrow and take some pictures of the little babies so that I can contact the Fish and Game Department and report the store.

I am so sick of people who are not willing to do their research about animals, especially when they are a local "resource" for pets.

Does this make me seem insane? Has anyone ever done this? Thanks guys!

Here is the law:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/…/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm…

"(b) Sales; general prohibition. Except as otherwise provided in this section, viable turtle eggs and live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches shall not be sold, held for sale, or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution."
 

Big Charlie

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I don't know if you would be successful in reporting them.

I live in the area. Which pet store is it?
 

ChloeCrull

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Big Charlie

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Hi! I don't live in Fresno, but I'm in the valley. I've been to that pet store before, a long time ago, so I can't remember my impression. I don't have access to Facebook so I can't see the post.

I didn't go to the Reptile Expo today but I went a few weeks ago when it was in Tulare. I was very tempted by a tiny lizard but I resisted. It would be so easy to lose or accidentally hurt something that small.
 

ZEROPILOT

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That four inch law is also in Florida. It may very well be a nationwide thing. I'm not sure. But it seems that EVERY PET STORE in town has turtles and tortoises that are smaller than that for sale. Sometimes on the tanks selling tiny turtles there is a sign saying that they are being sold for "Educational purposes". That must get around some loop hole in the law.
 

Tom

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Hey guys. I'm sorry, but I need to vent!

A local pet shop that specializes in aquatics posted in a sales group (our local Craigslist Facebook page) and mentioned that they received a bunch of sulcata hatchlings. They mentioned how cute they were and what great pets they make. I commented on the post, asking the shop to please ensure that the customers understand how big sulcata tortoises grow to be and how much care they need to avoid more sulcatas being dumped at rescues. I came across the post today to see that they deleted my comment.

It is pretty obvious that they just want to sell these animals and do not want people to be deterred by their adult size and housing requirements, which would hinder their sales. I am really worried about these little babies and I am quite infuriated.

Come to think of it, I believe there is a law that turtles and tortoises cannot be sold if they are under 4 inches. I want to march down there tomorrow and take some pictures of the little babies so that I can contact the Fish and Game Department and report the store.

I am so sick of people who are not willing to do their research about animals, especially when they are a local "resource" for pets.

Does this make me seem insane? Has anyone ever done this? Thanks guys!

Here is the law:

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/…/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm…

"(b) Sales; general prohibition. Except as otherwise provided in this section, viable turtle eggs and live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches shall not be sold, held for sale, or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution."

Going only by what is in your post, because that is all I have, I think you might be jumping to conclusions. You are making an assumption about why they deleted your post. Why don't you go in there posing as a customer and ask how big these adorable babies will get? See what care info they offer. Have a care sheet ready to hand them if the info they give you is bad info. There are many possible explanations for why they deleted your post. Don't assume. Ask.

Reporting them to the authorities because they are jerks, if they are jerks, will not help any of us in the long run. Encouraging enforcement of a stupid law that needs to be rescinded helps no one either. Don't fuel the bad guys(Our out-of-control, over-reaching government) and help them get ever more powerful and restrictive. Instead, if needed, go after this pet store on social media and inform as many people as you can. Keep posting on their page, even though you know they will delete it when they find it. How many people will read it before its deleted?

Give them the benefit of the doubt until you know otherwise from first hand interaction and conversation with them.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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Is that in a shopping center at Clovis Ave and Shaw?
 

Yvonne G

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Is that in a shopping center at Clovis Ave and Shaw?

No, that's Seven Seas. The one she's talking about is just east of the Orchard's parking lot. We've been in there, but at that time they only had aquariums and fish.
 

jaizei

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That four inch law is also in Florida. It may very well be a nationwide thing. I'm not sure. But it seems that EVERY PET STORE in town has turtles and tortoises that are smaller than that for sale. Sometimes on the tanks selling tiny turtles there is a sign saying that they are being sold for "Educational purposes". That must get around some loop hole in the law.

The law is nationwide, and no, that is not a loophole. Those signs are worthless. The key phrase is bona fide.

The real 'loophole' is the hobbyist exception, but operating a pet store would negate that one as well.
 

ZEROPILOT

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The law is nationwide, and no, that is not a loophole. Those signs are worthless. The key phrase is bona fide.

The real 'loophole' is the hobbyist exception, but operating a pet store would negate that one as well.
That's a shame.
I'm sure that most of those little turtles are viewed as "disposable" pets.
 

Markw84

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Going only by what is in your post, because that is all I have, I think you might be jumping to conclusions. You are making an assumption about why they deleted your post. Why don't you go in there posing as a customer and ask how big these adorable babies will get? See what care info they offer. Have a care sheet ready to hand them if the info they give you is bad info. There are many possible explanations for why they deleted your post. Don't assume. Ask.

Reporting them to the authorities because they are jerks, if they are jerks, will not help any of us in the long run. Encouraging enforcement of a stupid law that needs to be rescinded helps no one either. Don't fuel the bad guys(Our out-of-control, over-reaching government) and help them get ever more powerful and restrictive. Instead, if needed, go after this pet store on social media and inform as many people as you can. Keep posting on their page, even though you know they will delete it when they find it. How many people will read it before its deleted?

Give them the benefit of the doubt until you know otherwise from first hand interaction and conversation with them.
3 years ago, someone "reported" that small turtles were being sold at the huge reptile expo in Sacramento that is held every September. It was a great place to come see other hobbists and their turtles. Since we are virtually next to the capital and state offices, Fish and Wildlife showed up in a matter of an hour and threatened all who had turtles under 4" to leave immediately or face fines and confiscation. In their wisdom, the said nothing to anyone selling tortoises under 4". Ever since, no one selling turtles will participate in that expo. I feel its a shame as it was a great way to connect with successful hobbyists. You didn't see the stores selling turtles, just the hobbyist. But that is gone now.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Does this make me seem insane? Has anyone ever done this? Thanks guys!


No, this does not make you insane. Many people have experienced this same frustration. I agree with @Tom in that social media is not a reliable way to really know what's going on and to be a "secret shopper" will better inform you what's happening.

You'll have to keep any kind of "attitude" enclosed in your heart and mind, I know that is difficult, at least for me.

In short Pet Shop crusades end up just annoying many people and not effecting a change. Contacting Cal F&G can be a mixed bag as well. It come down to the person you interact with and who-ever may actually go to the store. It's a tar-pole proposition. If you touch it you get stuck to it.

I think the best to hope for is offering help if you find they really are just miss-informing people.
 
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