Redfoots - Pairs & Groups
- Thread starter AMA904
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It's all good my friend.......... what this forum is about-
Sharing information and ideas at certain locations in the World ....with current times and experiences.
Sharing information and ideas at certain locations in the World ....with current times and experiences.
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
So, basically, our answers were "entertaining" because you have used old research to indicate that tortoises will do poorly kept together in setups that are to small anyways? Thats all I can discern from the first post. I would agree with whoever said that is "condescending", although you may not have intended it this way.
If that is really what you feel this forum is about, then I suggest sharing your information and ideas in a more polite fashion, instead of preceded by a condescending comment towards everyone else's information/experience as entertaining. We are all here to learn and share information, after all.
If that is really what you feel this forum is about, then I suggest sharing your information and ideas in a more polite fashion, instead of preceded by a condescending comment towards everyone else's information/experience as entertaining. We are all here to learn and share information, after all.
You gotta lighten up Pete. There is a lot of history here, and you are jumping to conclusions unnecessarily based on too little info. You don't know JD from a few sentences in one thread.
We are all hear to learn and share. Not everyone is going to like everyone else's delivery style.
We are all hear to learn and share. Not everyone is going to like everyone else's delivery style.
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Tom, I disagree, JD is rude and condescending when anyone has a different opinion from his. His way is not the only way or the only right way. There is no need for the snide comments and the attempt to bulldoze everyone else with a bunch of long posts and citation to other sources to get his point across. There was absolutely no need to make his original comment which was very condescending.
JD, I think you are rude and condescending all the time because you are. You make no attempts to be civil until the tide turns against you. I think that is a terrible waste of time and energy. And a very mean spirited way to behave.
JD, I think you are rude and condescending all the time because you are. You make no attempts to be civil until the tide turns against you. I think that is a terrible waste of time and energy. And a very mean spirited way to behave.
They do quite well in groups. I've had no issues when properly set up in Horne past 15+ years. *Properly set up of course, means of sizable animals that are around the same size should be housed together if chosen to do groups.
Especially in mature groups like in this photo. I've tried smaller specimens with large-massive adults like these and they lose weight because they can't fend, climb over the larger ones to get to the food, and just give up trying to be part of the hierarchy. Same goes with the sub adult groups I keep. They all have to be placed moderation of size, or the smaller ones will decline. I have never seen any aggression at all. What I do see though is an established dominate male and female. No fighting has ever taken place before. But when the next largest male and female are separated from the group that male becomes the alpha in the new area with those males and females. Bigger always seems to win. At least in my experiences.
Yellow foots(I know you asked about red foots but I figured why not) on the other hand. These guys can get aggressive. I have not seen aggression amongst females. But certainly with males. A young amazon basin Peruvian male I have is quite the biter. Bites the shells, legs, neck anything can get ahold of. Same with the Guyana males in the group too. So these get separated from the group. Females are kept together, but will not show any sort of "socialization" characteristics of being in a group(like the Redfoots do)
Especially in mature groups like in this photo. I've tried smaller specimens with large-massive adults like these and they lose weight because they can't fend, climb over the larger ones to get to the food, and just give up trying to be part of the hierarchy. Same goes with the sub adult groups I keep. They all have to be placed moderation of size, or the smaller ones will decline. I have never seen any aggression at all. What I do see though is an established dominate male and female. No fighting has ever taken place before. But when the next largest male and female are separated from the group that male becomes the alpha in the new area with those males and females. Bigger always seems to win. At least in my experiences.
Yellow foots(I know you asked about red foots but I figured why not) on the other hand. These guys can get aggressive. I have not seen aggression amongst females. But certainly with males. A young amazon basin Peruvian male I have is quite the biter. Bites the shells, legs, neck anything can get ahold of. Same with the Guyana males in the group too. So these get separated from the group. Females are kept together, but will not show any sort of "socialization" characteristics of being in a group(like the Redfoots do)
Fair enough, but may I ask you a question? Have you ever actually met him or talked to him on the phone? There have been many members here that I discovered I had the completely wrong impression of, once I finally met them in person. Sometimes the typed word just does not convey things the way they were intended. Now I'm not saying that Jeff is a saint, or that there has never been a snide remark, but might some of this be due to a misunderstanding of the typed word?
I have met Jeff a couple of times and talked to him on the phone too. When I read his posts, I now have a better understanding of his inflections and tone. I get what he means more now based on seeing how his personality works in person.
I'm just asking for a little "benefit of the doubt" because having met the man, having interacted with him for several years on this forum, I can see why his words might be misconstrued to be rude and condescending at times, but most of the time, I don't think he intends it that way. I too have been accused of some character flaws, and sometimes its just a misunderstanding.
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Tom, I'm not saying JD is not a nice guy, he could very well be a saint, just one that is rude. No matter how good a guy he may be, there is no excuse for the rudeness or his bullying tactics. We are all adults, it is not for the rest of the forum to forgive or tolerate, likewise it is not his right to belittle and condescend to everyone else. I do not like or dislike JD, i do not like his tactics.
Yes ma'am. I understand.
For the record I DO like both you and Jeff, tactics aside for both of you.
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I like you too! Hahaha!
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Man the hostility! We are talking about red foots right not if Jeff is a (edited by dmmj for profanity) or not? He maybe an *** but he's an *** that knows what he is talking about . As for keeping reds in groups . I have one male and three females ranging in size . I have never seen any problems with them . I have two water bowls in their enclosure they soak together sometimes . I have more than one hide they will share one .I feed in a big plate and they will not fight . They circle around eating . No climbing on top of one another . So if your asking if you can keep them in groups I say yes . .
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For clarification:
1. I don't know of any species that doesn't do well in groups of appropriate ages, sex ratios and with proper large enclosures. Redfoots almost always thrive in groups from what I have seen.
2. Pairs are not a good idea for any species. While sometime a pair might survive, I don't think it is a good situation, and its very risky. I will concede that some hinge backs MIGHT be an exception. Jacqui has in the past argued this point, and since I don't know the species at all, I believe her.
This does not mean that a pair cannot ever live together. Obviously some have. Some of mine have in the past. I have just seen it be a problem more often than not, and I think it is a practice best avoided.
1. I don't know of any species that doesn't do well in groups of appropriate ages, sex ratios and with proper large enclosures. Redfoots almost always thrive in groups from what I have seen.
2. Pairs are not a good idea for any species. While sometime a pair might survive, I don't think it is a good situation, and its very risky. I will concede that some hinge backs MIGHT be an exception. Jacqui has in the past argued this point, and since I don't know the species at all, I believe her.
This does not mean that a pair cannot ever live together. Obviously some have. Some of mine have in the past. I have just seen it be a problem more often than not, and I think it is a practice best avoided.
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Yes, yes better safe than sorry .
In cases like this it doesn't matter if I've met the person or spoken to them in person or not. It becomes irrelevant when all you get on the forum is arrogant, egotistical self-promotion or belligerent, nearly incoherent responses to legitimate questions. I don't need to find out how wonderful the person actually is---the postings on the forum tell me enough. If I go to the zoo and the baboon is always throwing his poop at me, I'm really not interested in what an intellectual he really is at heart.
As for the OT, yes, red-footed tortoises seem to do well---if not better when kept together. But then it also depends of the kind. Males of some types (i.e. cherry-head) do not tolerate each other very well.
There are plenty of wild sightings where numerous adults are found in the same burrow or other microhabitat to suggest that in the very least they tolerate each other well. Many of my adult females choose to stay in the same hide as others even though many different hides are offered.
It is near impossible to infer
When over half of communication is non-verbal, it is easy to see major downfalls of strictly text-based conversations. As such, it is highly impractical to attempt to infer tone and motive simply based on text. I have, obviously, known my mother and sister all my life, but there are occasions when innocuous emails or texts from either of them will upset me, and vice versa. Often times how an email, blog or forum post is interpreted rest solely on the current disposition, circumstances and environment of the recipient.
Ultimately, in the end, the return on the energy I would spend being mean or spiteful does not yield anything of value other than upsetting myself and possibly other.
Just my two cents.
Ultimately, in the end, the return on the energy I would spend being mean or spiteful does not yield anything of value other than upsetting myself and possibly other.
Just my two cents.
I am not sure what happened.. I do apologize for the double post.
I'd like to say I appreciate you members, even you argumentative ones, for helping us newbies out. So please get along or we'll have to house you together. Lol
So please get along or we'll have to house you together. Lol
That would be like "Ultimate Fighter- TFO Version"!
Just like tortoises, some people are just NOT going to get along well.
I guess I've fallen down on the job. I haven't been following this thread because I don't have a lot of RF experience. I was going to take out all the in-fighting comments, however it would be too big a job to try to separate the comments out of posts that include good responses to the OP's question, so suffice it to say, "Please keep further comments to the question posed by the OP of this thread, and leave personalities and back biting off the Forum." Thank you.
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