Redfoot and high humidity

[ZEROPILOT]

I have four Redfoot at the moment.(1.3)
One I raised from a tiny baby and three from a "farm in Miami". All four have been raised mostly outdoors here in south Florida and it is very, very humid. Yet all four have at least some slight pyramiding.
I was told that the three from Miami had NEVER been kept indoors even as babies. My original RF had been inside for about a year and she is no more or less pyramided.
My outside enclosure. The one I use the most, has a misting system for the dryer winter months. The rest of the year it rains pretty regularly and is hot and steamy also. The night hides are also humid.
My question is how much humidity do they have in nature? It must be very high indeed. Unless there is another factor here.

 

[allegraf]

There have been many theories about pyramiding, it is also a hot button issue. From what I have read, fast growth, too much protein, not enough humidity, too much heat can all be contributing factors. I am no scientist but I have noticed that the ones I grew in constant temps of 82-84F with lower humidity and slow growth developed minor pyramiding. Putting them outside in south Florida seems to have resulted in smoother growth.

Last year, I changed tactics and kept the hatchlings inside for a week or two in controlled temps. Then I put them outside to fend for themselves. So far smoother growth. This years hatchlings also have much smoother growth as well. They are also being grown slow.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I can see that they might get a little more heat and direct sunshine. (Than in the wild?)
They tend to come out very early in the morning from their hides and then retreat when it gets hot. Only to return in the late afternoon to look for food again.
maybe I should place a solid roof on a portion of my enclosure to act like a forest canopy? (It is plastic netting now.)
I thank you for your input.
It's all very interesting to me and I'd like to make sure that they are as comfortable as they can be kept in a back yard.

 

[Redstrike]

I'm in a completely separate climate (NY) but here's my two cents:
In my indoor enclosures, I've held my redfoots along a temperature gradient of ~80 - 87ºF. Humidity is held at 75%.
I don't have an outdoor enclosure, but we go outside at least 3 days a week 4-6 months out of the year, depending on the weather. Mine are all variably bumpy.

I am a scientist and I think Allegra is on the money. It's rare that one covariate (temperature, humidity, genetics, etc.) is responsible for observed outcomes. It's usually a multitude of factors leading to an outcome with confounding interaction effects to boot.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I've had some that looked like Lisa Simpsons hairdo.
Mine are not very noticeable. Just wondering what/If I should modify something.
Trying to match the environment would be nearly impossible as would be trying to duplicate the REAL foods that they eat in the wild.

 

[Anyfoot]

I have four Redfoot at the moment.(1.3)
One I raised from a tiny baby and three from a "farm in Miami". All four have been raised mostly outdoors here in south Florida and it is very, very humid. Yet all four have at least some slight pyramiding.
I was told that the three from Miami had NEVER been kept indoors even as babies. My original RF had been inside for about a year and she is no more or less pyramided.
My outside enclosure. The one I use the most, has a misting system for the dryer winter months. The rest of the year it rains pretty regularly and is hot and steamy also. The night hides are also humid.
My question is how much humidity do they have in nature? It must be very high indeed. Unless there is another factor here.

I just looked in the Vinke book at the weather stations charts. The northern SA regions seem to be around 60% to 85%. Im guessing these stations could be miles away from the torts.
I also ask myself if the air humidity is lets say 80%, what is it at ground level in dense foliage? What is it at dawn? Do they get a moist carapace in the morning due?
Do you or can you get any photos of this Miami farm, what was the ground coverage of the enclosures like.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

The two photos he showed me looked like a very large, open grassy field and some open ended stalls that looked like re purposed horse stalls because they were at least 7 feet tall. I didn't see any water. I'm sure it was there and they were all fed grocery store greenery fruits and veggies that were going to be thrown away.

 

[Anyfoot]

The two photos he showed me looked like a very large, open grassy field and some open ended stalls that looked like re purposed horse stalls because they were at least 7 feet tall. I didn't see any water. I'm sure it was there and they were all fed grocery store greenery fruits and veggies that were going to be thrown away.

I'm guessing the grass was long and overgrown like in the wild.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Bermuda I think. The kind that a lawn mower would have a hard time cutting. But not very tall.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I have tufts of Bermuda in my pen. For some reason, the seed didn't take over fully.

 

[allegraf]

Here are the hatchlings from this year. They went out after one to three weeks depending on when they hatched.


Last years, they were inside for three weeks to six, we were hesitant to put them out so small.
And these were the year before that and kept inside for months. Luckily, it doesn't matter as we are keeping all of these.

 

[allegraf]

Btw, I am no scientist, but I had to check my weak *** records to determine the approximate times. The second post with pics is more accurate as to times spent in controlled environments.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Yours are very, very nice.

 

[Octavious22]

I really hate pyramiding in tortoises just saying.

 

[allegraf]

I really hate pyramiding in tortoises just saying.

I agree wholeheartedly, but learning every day. Seems to be getting better.

 

[Anyfoot]

Here are the hatchlings from this year. They went out after one to three weeks depending on when they hatched.
View attachment 171263View attachment 171264

Last years, they were inside for three weeks to six, we were hesitant to put them out so small.View attachment 171265View attachment 171266
And these were the year before that and kept inside for months. Luckily, it doesn't matter as we are keeping all of these.
View attachment 171269View attachment 171267View attachment 171268

@allegraf. Have you come to the conclusion that the quicker you get them outside the smoother yours seem to be.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Hopefully discussions today can end pyramiding tomorrow.
Sounds good, anyway.

 

[allegraf]

@allegraf. Have you come to the conclusion that the quicker you get them outside the smoother yours seem to be.

Time will tell. This is why we sold so few last year and none this year so far. My unscientific approach that hopefully will guide the way for me to raise smooth babies, or at least smoother ones!

 

[Anyfoot]

Time will tell. This is why we sold so few last year and none this year so far. My unscientific approach that hopefully will guide the way for me to raise smooth babies, or at least smoother ones!

With our weather over here I have no problems maintaining a certain temp in a closed system enclosure, because the temp I want to achieve is always(well 99% of the time) higher than our weather temps. How do you maintain 82f in an enclosure if it's 90f outside for example?

 

[allegraf]

We keep them in the garage. During the summer months, it would go to 84F. During the winter, we used the radiator type portable heater. I have a thermometer that shows the highs and lows and it would be anywhere from 82-84F in summer and 75-78F in the winter. The hatchlings also have a heat pad under their enclosed plastic bin which kept their immediate temps around 80-82F.