Raising a single Leopard vs. raising a group

[Levi the Leopard]

Barb (Wellington) and I were chatting recently about our GPB Leopard's personalities. We noticed some similarities and we're curious to see if anyone else would share their input.

Both of us raised a single Leopard tortoise. Her Tatum is 2+ years and my Levi is almost 2. They are similar in personality from what we discussed. Not too active. Indifferent to our company. They don't even utilize their entire outdoor yard.

Both of us also have a pair of Leopards that have been raised together to compare to. She has spent a month babysitting some little guys and I adopted a pair of yearlings this past summer. We noticed that the ones raised together have similarities, too. These guys are super active, all over the place, alert and more personable.

Now my adopted pair is housed with Levi, the one who was raised alone. This trio has no problems being together. They eat, bask and live a fantastic tortoise life. BUT I see huge differences in their personalities. Levi is still very laid back and doesn't even explore the whole yard. He was always this way and is still exactly the same as he was before the new additions. The 2 adopted yearlings have just been so different. From day 1 they are all over the place, all the time. (Which I love, not complaining at all!) I just always figured it was a "different" personality thing. After talking with Barb and hearing that she has the same observations from her "raised solo" leopard Tatum and the "raised with company" babies it made us wonder if raising them with/ without company impacted their personality?

What do you guys think?

If you have a single leopard, what is he like?
If you have a group of leopards, what are they like?

Barb, chime in and help me explain what we were talking about

 

[Vegas_Leopard]

From my own personal observations of housing single Leopards and groups, there are noticeable characteristic differences. I'll start off with my experience of housing a Leopard alone.

When I was keeping my GPB separately, I noticed she had a daily routine. She would start the day off by basking under her spotlight until she was warm enough to explore her surroundings, after her stroll around every inch of the enclosure she would always end up at the same place and sleep. She would either retreat into her humid hide or lay underneath the CHE. When removing the top cover in order for me to place a dish of food she would stay at the certain spot until I had left her sight. I would watch her from afar and noticed her moved towards the other end where the food was and she'd eat, rest, eat, rest until she satisfied her hunger and then proceed back into her normal spot. When I misted her directly, she would retreat into her shell until the misting was over. She would cycle through this routine throughout the day.

When I added another Leopard into the enclosure, she continued her daily routine, but would trail the other Leopard. Not once did they ever interfere with each other's space or climb over one another. The new Leopard actually followed the other and shared a daily routine. During feeding time, I would keep a close eye on them and that's when I noticed aggression. The initial Leopard that had claimed the enclosure first would stare at the other as they shared food and would almost always go after the same piece of food no matter how much was being offered. After doing so, I noticed head bobbing, sniffing and then a bite would occur. My thoughts on that was my GPB was trying to immobilize or scare the other off. I had also noticed when I kept younger ones (week to less than one month old) in pairs, everything was much like I've mentioned, but they were more civil and didn't mind each other. They would go about their business and dispatch from each other's surroundings.

Now when kept in groups of three or more I noticed a drastic change in characteristics and personality. Group activity levels were higher, they accepted each other in their presence, slept in close corners with each other, behind, right next and showed no signs of territorial aggression. There would also be times were they would sleep in different areas of the enclosure, one on each end and one in the middle. Sharing basking spots also showed no problems. During daily routines, one would follow the other and then separate themselves after a certain amount of time, one or two would be more active than three unless it were feeding time. When feeding time occurred, each Leopard had an area where they would start eating before they met. When making contact, I noticed they would share the same piece of food with no aggression, unless they got close enough to finishing the same piece of food. One of my Leopards would sometimes choose to explore and wait for another one to leave or until there was no other one feeding. I noticed two would finish eating at the same time instead of one after another. When together my Leopards showed no signs of fear or shyness, they acknowledged my presence and gathered close by when I was getting ready to place a dish of food down. I had hypothesized that when Leopards are kept in larger groups, weight gain slows down. Regardless if they've eaten enough to satisfy themselves, although growth is visually noticeable. It may very well just be the change in weather.

 

[wellington]

Heather, you did a great job explaining. See, that's why I asked you to start this thread. I'd still be rambling. From Vegas_Leopards post, sounds like its is easier to start with 3 or more then adding them in later. Will be interesting to see more postings. I'm wondering if they are alone, they feel their territory is safe. They don't have a need to explore looking for that intruder invading his territory and possibly eating his food or taking that great basking spot?

 

[Tom]

My observations: For many years leopards from all over Africa have been housed together and bred together. In the wild there are 11 distinct "clades" of leopards throughout the range. Over here there are basically two "types" that we recognize. Gpb and Gpp. unfortunately there is no easy way to tell which type you have, and how much, if any, hybridization has occurred at some point in your American leopard's past. In my experience, with animals of known purity, Gbp tend to act more like the singles you described and Gpp tend to act more like the doubles and like Vegas_Leopard's single. We've argued about leopard personalities many times here on the forum, and I know of know way to quantify or "prove" this, but I see it all the time. One thing that could have disproven what I'm saying is if Tatum or Levi had changed and become more like the other ones after assimilating into their groups. I think Tatum and Levi are typical Gpb, while the newer ones are more typical of either Gpp or Gpb/Gpp hybrids. Most of the hybrids tend to behave more like Gpp.

Where this was most noticeable was at the breeders place where I got all of our Gpp. This man had bought fresh imports from various regions decades ago and had been keeping them separate all these years. He had multiple generations of each type in multiple enclosures. He has the Gpp in several pens on one side, and Gpb from three distinct and known localities on the other. I mistakenly thought that all Gpb are just Gpb. He pointed out several morphological differences, like shell shape, scute edge serrations and scute flaring among his three Gpb groups, and after that it was easy to tell one from the other. Apart from subtle morphological differences what was most noticeable to me were the behavioral differences. At each visit the Gpp were out, engaging, exploring, and clearly just dominating their space. Very sulcata like. In stark contrast ALL of the Gpb, would hide, freeze and tuck in at our approach from 50 feet away, and stay that way until we went away. They would hide more and were much less active and engaging. It was distinctly different. I stood in the middle and looked to my left. I saw large active tortoise. Some approached and acted like my sulcatas checking in to see if I might have any food offerings. They approached me, noticed me, didn't care about me and went about their business. When I looked to my right it was the opposite. No movement, no heads out looking around, no exploring or curiosity. Mind you that these are multiple generations all raised from hatchlings (except the original foundation stock which made up a fairly small percentage) at the same place, in the same way, in the same type of enclosures, literally side by side. If the people who argue these point with me could see what I saw at this place, the arguments would cease. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

Another example: When I had my first batch of Gpp hatchlings, I also had a whole bunch of Gpb and hybrid hatchlings. There was a time while we were having one of our past heated leopard tortoise personality debates and I had two different groups of TFO member visitors come to my ranch for a tour and visit. I had the two groups out in kiddie pools sunning, and it was the same thing I described above, even with these hatchlings. My guests had been following the debate threads and were interested to see for themselves first hand. They approached the Gpp pool and all the hatchlings looked up noticed them and continued about their business. When they picked up a Gpp the hatchlings would stretch their legs and head out and struggle to get or away or be released. ALL of them did this for every visitor, young and old. Next we approached the Gpb pool. At our approach ALL of them froze, tucked in and remained motionless the whole time we stood there. When picked up, they stayed tucked in their shells, did not move and did not struggle in any way. Every hatchling in each group was consistent this way. No exceptions.

One of the guys arguing back then spoke of his outgoing and engaging female leopards. He said they were 18"+ and more than 35 pounds. In my experience, that is quite a lot bigger than typical Gpb. That is certainly bigger than all of the "pure" Gpb that were at my friends breeding compound, where some of them had been growing, healthy, reproducing adult since the 80s or early 90's. It seems obvious to me that this guy, and many of the others obviously had hybrids. My observations were dismissed. I was insulted, attacked and belittled, and I chose to disengage. But each visitor to my ranch, and soe forum members who had also seen what I had seen agreed with me.

So. In my opinion, based on my experience, it seems to me like Tatum and Levi are behaving more like typical Gpb, and your others are behaving more like typical hybrids or Gpp. Maybe someday DNA testing will begin to reveal if am correct, but this would be a pretty huge undertaking, to collect samples from all the groups all over Africa and try to compare them to what we have here in the states. By the way, there are at least six forum members here that are knowingly and willingly creating hybrids, despite my protests, and I know of at least three others that are not forum members doing it too. It saddens me, but it is what it is. The leopard world is a jumbled mess full of unknown variables and conflicting info.

Bottom line: There ain't no way to know what you've got, unless you buy from one of the very few sources that truly knows the source and origin of their animals. They are all "leopard tortoises", and we should just enjoy them for what they are.

 

[jshaw9_]

Great info Tom et al, love reading all this information/peoples experiences.

 

[diamondbp]

I'm enjoying this thread. I wish I had some input but I only deal with PP.

 

[Elohi]

Tom when you mentioned scute edge serrations, do you mean that gpb have the sharp serrations and the hybrids, may or may not? And that gpp do not have them, or less pronounced?
Obviously I'm new to the leopard world and have a ton to learn. The two hatchlings in my house are VERY different. It's like the little one is demonstrating gpb traits and the larger more active one is demonstrating traits of gpp? Hmm. And the little less active one has really sharp serrations. The bigger more active one does not. I'm now feeling some disappointment because I wanted an active tort, not a hider like my ornate boxie. :0/
She is a beautiful little thing and doesn't totally hide away when I'm around but her clutch mate is bold and unafraid of anything.
The bigger leopard belongs to my friend who is still working on its chamber.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Diamondbp,
We'd still love your input. You have 6. What are they like when housed alone or in a group? Are there different behaviors?

After reading what Tom had to share it seems as though any leopard (GPP, GPB, hybrid) will have its personality come from genetics NOT from housing conditions. In other words, even if Tatum and Levi had been raised in a group they would still be their same ol' selves. Or if one of the leopards from our pairs had been raised alone, they would still be active and inquisitive.

The hypothesis Barb and I made that raising a leopard alone affects its personality is "debunked".

If anyone else has observations on behavior differences between a leopard raised alone and leopards raised in a group, please share!

 

[mikeh]

Re: RE: Raising a single Leopard vs. raising a group

Tom when you mentioned acute edge serrations, as is you mean that gpb have the sharp serrations and the hybrids, may or may not? And that gpp do not have them, or less pronounced?
Obviously I'm new to the leopard world and have a ton to learn. The two hatchling in my house are VERY different and I'm confused by a few things the breeder said about them and now reading this makes me think they are hybrids and the active one is demonstrating traits of gpp and the little one who is much different, is just being a gpb. And she has really sharp serrations. The bigger more active one does not. I'm now feeling some heavy disappointment because I wanted an active tort, not a hider like my ornate boxie. :0/
The bigger leopard belongs to my friend who is still working on its chamber.

Once your little one is on his own, he may become more outgoing in his "own" territory. Being in territory of the more dominating one may as well contribute to his withdrawn behavior. When my six month old GPP sees my hand in his space he will either see if I have food for him, if not he will nervously pace around the vicinity of the hand and will ram it if I put in front of him. If I try to pet his head he pushes his head upward to push me finger out of the way. This may look like play full behavior to a human, but I think the tort is claiming his territory telling me get out of my space. As an experiment, when I placed him with tortoises (of different but very laid back species) three times his size to share a meal, he would rush to the meal to squeezing himself between the two to eat. As the bigger torts ignored him and just went about their feeding, the little Leo would get on top of the food pile and just sit there with his legs spread out while the other two were scooping the food from directly under him. He would not budge even when they bumped into him with their heads trying to get the food from under him. He seemed clearly displeased. After a while seeing his food protection had no effect he would walk away. This happen every time I tried this. It is very likely that if I got him a mate of his size or smaller the new tort would not fare well in his company.

 

[dar64]

I recently adopted a male Leopard. I'm still trying to determine his name. He was not raised correctly . From what I was told he was raised indoors and didn't eat proper foods. He was fed "red" foods like fruits etc. I am not sure about what greens.

His personality is very reserved but it could be that he is still adjusting. I've only had him around 6 weeks. He walks around a little and tends to retreat in the same area until I put him in his heated protection in the evening. He has slowed way down on activity and appetite since the weather is getting cooler

He has a lot of pyramiding which I understand happens more with leos. I really want to get a couple more. I had a friends here and he seemed to become more active and it brought his personality out. If anyone knows of anyone looking to place one or two that are able to live outdoors in the Arizona sunshine please contact me. The problem is I can't pay a fortune at this time. My leo is approximately 8 inches. I know he is older than he looks because he was raised indoors.

So that is the basic personality of my Leo living alone. I wish I could find one or preferably two more. He tends to be more active when he is with others.

 

[diamondbp]

Diamondbp,
We'd still love your input. You have 6. What are they like when housed alone or in a group? Are there different behaviors?

After reading what Tom had to share it seems as though any leopard (GPP, GPB, hybrid) will have its personality come from genetics NOT from housing conditions. In other words, even if Tatum and Levi had been raised in a group they would still be their same ol' selves. Or if one of the leopards from our pairs had been raised alone, they would still be active and inquisitive.

The hypothesis Barb and I made that raising a leopard alone affects its personality is "debunked".

If anyone else has observations on behavior differences between a leopard raised alone and leopards raised in a group, please share!

Thanks. From what I have noticed in the short time of owning P.Pardalis (one year) Every single one of my tortoises have an outgoing personality other than my new baby that had an URI. Even though she has bounced back nicely, I would hate to draw conclusions on her personality compared to the others. Perhaps in a few more weeks I can confidently say what her personality is. I'm noticing she is different though so far from the others. Much more shy and she prefers to feed EARLY and alone, where as the others could care less.

But my other five are all very similar. No bullying, but all very outgoing and they are not shy of me at all. I can snap all the pictures I want of them without them recoiling in. They eat in front of me with no problems and they adjusted to their Soak/feed routines quickly. They poop immediately in their soaks and the eat as soon as their food is presented.

Now I did seperate my two oldest and largest from the others a few months back . Although they were not bullying (shoving/biting/etc.), they just simply took up more size around the food. Since I seperated them it seems that both parties are happier. The two older/larger show ZERO aggression or competition with each other and the four younger/smaller likewise.

I agree with Tom in saying that they resemble sulcata personalities very closely, although my sulcatas still maintain an overwhelming personality compared to any other tortoises. Sulcatas (at least mine) are not shy in any regards.

 

[Neal]

I'd hate to see the personality debate become heated again. I similarly felt insulted, belittled, and attacked when the topic was heavily debated last time but the main agitators have moved on from the forum and I hope more level headed discussion will prevail now and in the future. Tom and I have made amends, and I do regret that I was not innocent with insults and personal attacks.

Anyways, I do have a different viewpoint from what Tom has described and I hope that brings some further value into this discussion.

I do not believe that "tortoise personality" (subject to the observer) is an instinctive characteristic. I believe tortoise personality is learned and influenced by its environment and by the husbandry that it receives. And I think that more accurately explains what you are seeing with your leopards. Your two groups behave differently because they were raised in completely different surroundings and influences is my argument.

As support for my argument:

In my own groups, I have not noted any significant differences in personality between the two types of leopards. Some days the Spp are more friendly and active and some days I can't get them to come out of their shells. Same observations with the Spb. Visitors to my house have noted similar observations, and I have seen similar behaviors in others' groups. After having seen so many of both types in a variety of situations, I cannot conclude that one variant is more or less outgoing than the other.

Where I have noted consistent behavioral differences is in groups that receive different care. As an example, I have a friend who has a small group of a Spb. He is not serious in the hobby and really doesn't have a whole lot of interest in tortoises, so the time he actually spends observing them or caring for them is minimal. He rarely interacts with them. He lives on a large lot in an old part of town with mature mulberry trees, fig trees, and other good things so he doesn't even have to feed them very often. The majority of his group is extremely shy and it's so rare for them to come out of their shells the way mine do when I go over to visit. Compare that with mine. I interact with my tortoises several times a day. I hand feed when I can, and regularly examine my tortoises which involves poking and prodding at their legs, head and neck. They have become very used to me doing this and so it becomes very rare for them to close up in their shells and as a result they perceive me as a none threat and I can never get any yard work done because they follow me around everywhere and are always underfoot . Also, relative to my friends living space, I have a very small backyard and so my tortoises see me and my family more often coming and going than my friends see him which, I think, has acclimated them to human presence.

I have seen several examples of tortoises raised in similar conditions as the two different methods described above, and I have noted similar behavior patterns of the tortoises in each circumstance in both variants of leopard tortoises.

So, how does this explain what Tom has seen at his friends with the separate large groups of babcocki and pardalis? Well, it really doesn't, but there are still other things to consider with the observations shared here. How was each group raised? From what I understand, the pardalis were imported as hatchlings, were the babcocki imported as hatchlings as well or as adults? Did they receive the same type of care? Were they interacted with similarly? Are they in similar sized enclosures? are they in similar sized groups? Have extended observations been made, as in multiple days, different types of weather, different times of the year, different times of the day, different people and can those people share their first hand experiences? All these unknowns complicates any conclusion that I could make.

The problem with this debate is even more complex when we factor in the bias of the observer. I don't intend to offend anyone, I admittedly include myself as having a bias on this topic. I do try very hard to approach every observation with a skeptical mindset, but it's frustrating for me at times because it has gotten to the point where I am not sure that I can trust my own observations. I could look at a group of tortoises and think they are behaving in such and such a way and call it active and outgoing, and someone else could view the same tortoises at the same time and arrive at a different conclusion. I think you have brought up a very interesting observation on this topic and I would really like to see some further discussion and research on how a tortoises environment and husbandry influences their behavior.

---

The hypothesis Barb and I made that raising a leopard alone affects its personality is "debunked".

I'm a little shocked at the conclusion you've made here. As I said, I think you have brought up a very interesting observation. Something that I think is worthy of extended research and discussion. I hope others don't give up on the topic and share their own experiences.

 

[wellington]

My Tatum isn't shy with me. Even if I have startled him and he pulls in, as soon as I say something to him, pick him up, or make the kissing sound he pops right out. He has no problem with me holding him, kissing him, holding his leg or tail, etc. The behavior Heather and I were more concerned with, is Tatum and Levi both would rather sleep then roam. They aren't as active as the leopards we have that are in pairs or groups. The two little ones I'm caring for, has no problem with me either, kissing them or handling them, etc, in that respect they are like my Tatum. However, when they are in their enclosure, they roam, eat, roam, bask, sleep. They sleep way less then my Tatum did at their age and even now. Now, this past summer, Tatum would have a few days he would roam his enclosure for quite some time. However, never the whole enclosure. Then, he would retreat to his shed around 2-3:00 maybe sooner and be done for the day. Even when he was housed inside as a little one, he was always done for the day around the same time. The two little ones I am caring for, does not go down for the night that early at all, in fact most days they are eating again around 5-5:30.
My concern and thoughts were, if I were to get a couple more leopards to be housed with Tatum, would he be more active or would he remain as he is? Is he as happy and active as he wants to be, or is he like that because he is alone and lonely or bored? (I know the whole they are loners) but, with the activity of those not raised alone, are leopards really as much of a "loner" as we think?
I'm not sure why there was such a heated debate in the past. I'm sure there probably won't be one right answer. All points already provided are very legit. It could be a little bit of everything. So, let's please keep this not as a debate, but a place to learn about others single and multiple leopard groups behaviors.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Levi isn't shy with me either. He just prefers to lounge around instead of roam his territory. He won't approach me looking for food but is fine with me approaching him. He closes up with other people.

Neal, am I very thankful you posted and retract my previous statement. Our guess on personality development isn't "debunked" and I was too quick to say so.

I'm hoping to keep this thread away from debate on generalities. I want specific observations from keepers. If Tom sees one thing and Neal sees another, both are simply stating their personal observation and no one can debate that.

I'm curious how many people raising single leopards would report they behave like Levi and Tatum.

I'm curious how many people raising groups would report they behave like ours that are kept together.

I'm curious how many people raising single leopards would report they are "sulcata like" and how many raising groups would report they are all generally inactive.

These last questions are the main focus of what Barb and I were discussing/wondering.

 

[Tom]

Neal is a friend and I hope it stays that way. I have three points that I want to bring up that I can't remember if I have brought up before. This is all for the sake of discussion and supporting points that are being made or refuting other points. Some of this may offer an explanation to what we are seeing, and why we all might be seeing things differently.

Point 1: Neal, can you be 100% sure that your friendly Gpb do not have some Gpp blood in their history? I am 100% sure of the DNA of all the ones I observed at the breeders and of mine and yours Gpp.

Point 2: This now pertains to the individual bias that Neal spoke of. Neal most of your tortoise experience is with stars, Gpb and a lone female sulcata that was not very outgoing, according to your description. I propose that your frame of reference might be different than mine where most of my experience is with adult sulcatas, russians and CDTs. Your experience is mostly with species that most tortoise keepers would consider "shy". Most of my experience is with the three most aggressive outgoing bruisers of the tortoise world. I am not saying either of us is right or wrong or more or less experienced, I am saying that we have very different frames of reference for what constitutes "shy" or "outgoing".

Point 3: Mine and Neal's Gpp were all from the same source at the same time. However I got mine soon after hatching and Neal got his months later. Unfortunately the guy caring for Neal's tortoises in that interim did not do such a good job. The point that I am getting at is that Neal's Gpp, were not in the same state as my Gpp. They did not look the same and they did not behave the same, even though some of them are likely clutch mates. This last point helps prove both mine AND Neal's points. On one hand, Neal's Gpp were much more subdued do to their history, so I say they are not representative of the typical outgoing Gpp that I have seen. On the other hand this would also prove Neal's point that upbringing and how the tortoises are interacted with has an effect on personality.

To answer some of Neal's questions: My visits to the breeder's place were on different days, with different weather and different years. All the enclosures were the same. The foundation stock of all four types came in in the late 80's and early 90's, and I don't know what sizes they all were when they came in. Most of the animals I saw were CB and raised at his place, all in similar enclosures with no differences in care or routine. Further, all of my observations and conversations with keepers from L.A. to FL, with the exception of Neal's poorly started Gpp, correspond and match up exactly with what I have seen everywhere else. On the many occasions that I have seen friendly or outgoing Gpb, origin and genetics could not be discerned. On every occasion where I have seen shy and reserved Gpb, either the origin could not be known, or they were of known pure Gpb origin.

I have no doubt that upbringing, level and type of interaction, "training" so to speak, have an effect on an individual tortoises personality. Agreed. Of course it does.

Likewise, I have no doubt that generalities within the various species also exist. Sulcatas that follow people around like puppies and Indian stars that don't, being two common examples. Can there be a shy sulcata or curious star? Absolutely! But to borrow another poster's phrase "The exception proves the rule."

 

[ulkal]

This is a very interesting thread. There already were some good points made.
I do not dispute any influence of genetics on certain phenomena, including some aspects of behavior. On the other hand, I do not believe it is the governing influence.

Heather, how do they overlap when pacing their territory?
Barb, what is the history of the two leopards? Are they from the same clutch, were they together from the beginning? I know, that Heathers were- not trying to establish any kind of kinship between tortoises, just curious

If you allow, I would like to stretch it a bit further and ask if there is any experience of behavioral differences in WC Gpp or Gpb respectively, and CB ones. Just curious.

 

[Tom]

I have seen Gpp in the wild. They all acted exactly the same as the ones I've seen in captivity. I have not seen Gpb in the wild.

 

[wellington]

This is a very interesting thread. There already were some good points made.
I do not dispute any influence of genetics on certain phenomena, including some aspects of behavior. On the other hand, I do not believe it is the governing influence.

Heather, how do they overlap when pacing their territory?
Barb, what is the history of the two leopards? Are they from the same clutch, were they together from the beginning? I know, that Heathers were- not trying to establish any kind of kinship between tortoises, just curious

If you allow, I would like to stretch it a bit further and ask if there is any experience of behavioral differences in WC Gpp or Gpb respectively, and CB ones. Just curious.

I don't know if they are from the same clutch. They were purchased from Tyler of Tortoise Supply and they were purchased and shipped the same time, so always together at least since time of shipping.

 

[Kirin]

I have a single gpb leopard which will be 1 year this month(13th). She is very active and and is not shy with me at all. She will sleep in my lap while I touch her. She is all over her house during the day. She will take naps when she wants but it is out in the open. She doesn't hide from people. My friend was over one night late and we were sitting by her cage. She was asleep in her hide. We started talking about her and she came running out to see who was there. She looked a little passed off that we woke her. It was funny. My daughter she will try and ram her. I don't think she likes my daughter, lol. I do believe that she is a hybrid, because a couple of her siblings had the 2 dots, where most of the had the1. She is more suclata like.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Ulkal, you know the 2 I'm referring to since they came from you!

I have no aggression, bullying or stress among them. Levi and your 2 live together just fine. They will eat from piles of food together. They will share basking spots and sleeping spots when inside. I've yet to see any biting, head bobbing or ramming.
While outside, your 2 love to roam. They cover every inch (Bumble Bee mostly) of the large yard. They munch along on grass and weeds, run along the edges and when I walk onto the patio I almost always see them up and about. Levi will spend time walking around doing his thing but only on a 1/3 section of the yard. And when I walk out onto the patio I mostly see him just laying out in his favorite spot.