Quran Burning

[dolfanjack]

I have to disagree that they have a right to build a mosque, a right is something in the constitution and I do not see anywhere there where they have a right to build it, they can practice their religion that is a right, but building mosques are not a right.

Anyone has the right to buy or rent property and use it for legal activities. Practicing Islam is legal in this country. Both are constitutional rights. Maybe instead of people moaning about this mosque they instead should build a church next door, and a buddist temple next to the church, then a jewish temple,hindu palace,ect.ect.

 

[Neal]

Since when did this thread become a Chad/wpk argument?

I'm not interested in what you two have to say about politics and religion. If you can't talk about the subject matter without going at each other, then take your argument private.

As the OP I really don't think or even care that the debate got off topic. That's what happens in a debate, you go around, go back and forth, and eventually come to, hopefully, a better conclusion.

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

You seem to be contridicting yourself.

insane [ɪnˈseɪn]
adj
1. mentally deranged; crazy; mad; mentally ill

So a person who holds irrational and insane beliefs can be a perfectly rational, sane, and intelligent person, right?

Well yes, I'm sure you are a rational and intelligent person Chad in every other aspect of your life, no doubt in your social or work life you think critically, you reason, you question things that your friends, family, the media etc propose if what they are proposing seem illogical. For example, if I were to state on here that the way to achieve a smooth tortoise shell is to dip the tortoise in melted chocolate once a week, after laughing in my face you would eventually ask me 'where's your evidence?' If I could provide any you would read it, probably thoroughly dissect it and then conclude that evidence to the contrary is stronger, because of course it would be and because you are a rational person. However judging from your posts you hold religious beliefs, which are most probably irrational beliefs, beliefs which you do not question or think critically about. So unless you are actually insane, (or would quite like to dip a tortoise in melted chocolate) yes you can be intelligent, rational and sane but still hold irrational beliefs.

Sorry, didn't mean to let our off topic debate become so off topic here in the off topic detabate area

Ha ha. Sorry Yvonne.

 

[chadk]

So you agree that a person can be perfectly sane and yet their deepest convictions can be insane (deranged, crazy, mentally ill). I find that fascinating.

What is also fascinating is how you can know for certain that I do not think critically or question my personal religious beliefs. Again, this just comes accross as ignornant and bigoted.

 

[franeich]

I removed my post.

 

[Angi]

Wow....I think people that do dumb things like burning the Quran make real Christians look bad.
Yes burning things like the flag, the Bible and the Quran is legal, but it is stupid and makes sane people think you are a nut. That is my opinion I hope nobody thinks it is bigoted. I also think burning bras would make a lot of people look bad. I am still laughing about that.
BTW I thought Quran was spelled with a K was I wrong or can it be spelled two ways.

 

[Becki]

Imagine all the people living life in peace.
John Lennon

 

[wpk]

BTW I thought Quran was spelled with a K was I wrong or can it be spelled two ways.

Both are acceptable. From wordorigins.org:

Qur’an is a more accurate transliteration from the Arabic (the apostrophe represents the Arabic hamza or glottal stop), and it is replacing the older Koran in the same way as Muhammad is replacing Mohammed (which replaced the earlier Mahound).

 

[Neal]

BTW I thought Quran was spelled with a K was I wrong or can it be spelled two ways.

The article I linked spelled it with a Q so that's what I did.

 

[bettinge]

Either spelling burns well!

 

[chadk]

Wow....I think people that do dumb things like burning the Quran make real Christians look bad.
Yes burning things like the flag, the Bible and the Quran is legal, but it is stupid and makes sane people think you are a nut. That is my opinion I hope nobody thinks it is bigoted. I also think burning bras would make a lot of people look bad. I am still laughing about that.
BTW I thought Quran was spelled with a K was I wrong or can it be spelled two ways.

I agree with you - on all accounts

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

So you agree that a person can be perfectly sane and yet their deepest convictions can be insane (deranged, crazy, mentally ill). I find that fascinating. What is also fascinating is how you can know for certain that I do not think critically or question my personal religious beliefs. Again, this just comes accross as ignornant and bigoted.

It appears that you're now just trying to have an argument about nothing!
You didn't read what I wrote, I said people can be perfectly sane yet their convictions regarding religion can still be irrational, you mentioned the words insane, deranged, crazy and mentally ill.
I also didn't claim to be certain about anything, I used the adverb probably. However even If I had, I hardly think it ignorant, (and I'm not sure how it could possibly be bigoted) perhaps you do question your personal beliefs, I am talking however about critical thinking, looking at evidence on both sides, looking at your beliefs from a logical, scientific and objective point of view. Do you do that?

 

[Annieski]

A terrorist's only "job" is to create fear or "terror". Symbols of faith [Bible, Koran, Torah] or symbols of loyality and patriotism [the Flag of one's country or the display of their Constitution] are "visual" reminders of their beliefs and ideologies. In a "free" nation, we're given the choice of how to follow or "pay homage" to those beliefs, whereas, on the opposite side of the coin, there simplly is NO CHOICE. But, Tolerance cannot live freely with INTOLERANCE, the same way, we shouldn't mix species of tortoise and expect to have peace. Taking away my "symbols" will not change my belief or conviction ---taking away My "Freedom of Choice" is what I FEAR most --- and if that is accomplished --- the "terrorist" has had a good day at work. JMT

 

[chadk]

So you agree that a person can be perfectly sane and yet their deepest convictions can be insane (deranged, crazy, mentally ill). I find that fascinating. What is also fascinating is how you can know for certain that I do not think critically or question my personal religious beliefs. Again, this just comes accross as ignornant and bigoted.

It appears that you're now just trying to have an argument about nothing!
You didn't read what I wrote, I said people can be perfectly sane yet their convictions regarding religion can still be irrational, you mentioned the words insane, deranged, crazy and mentally ill.
I also didn't claim to be certain about anything, I used the adverb probably. However even If I had, I hardly think it ignorant, (and I'm not sure how it could possibly be bigoted) perhaps you do question your personal beliefs, I am talking however about critical thinking, looking at evidence on both sides, looking at your beliefs from a logical, scientific and objective point of view. Do you do that?

Actually it was wpk who used the word 'insane' in his original post here that started this whole discussion about people who believe differently than he does must be insane... try and keep up

And yes, I am a very critical thinker - especially when it comes to my deepest convictions. I know it might challenge your preconceieved stereotypes, but it is true...

Annieski - good point. All the panic our nation and our leaders are doing over this book burning thing simply shows how paralyzed with fear we are. Score one for the terrorists.

 

[Neal]

Interesting new story this morning. It seems there is a letter floating around Afghanistan from the radical muslim groups saying that IN RESPONSE to this Quran burning event they are asking other radicals to raise up and fight against Americans.

If even one American life is taken from this, it would not have been worth it. I can't understand what this guy is thinking, he's had death threats now...maybe he likes walking down the street looking over his shoulder.

---

Another story that is (somewhat) related to this topic, the Imaam (?) responsible for wanting the Mosque near ground zero was warning that if there is anything done to block the Mosque from being built, there may be an increased risk for retaliation from radical muslims.

He also said he wished he never had started doing this if he had known what kind of response he was going to get...I personally find that hard to believe.

I've not heard what the "powers that be" are considering doing about this situation, but if they allow this mosque to be built than so be it. I just hope that they don't do it out of fear of retalliation. I don't think we should allow ourselves to be afraid of another attack or anything like it, and let that control how we make our decisions. Yes, we should be cautious, but not fearfull.

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

So you agree that a person can be perfectly sane and yet their deepest convictions can be insane (deranged, crazy, mentally ill). I find that fascinating. What is also fascinating is how you can know for certain that I do not think critically or question my personal religious beliefs. Again, this just comes accross as ignornant and bigoted.

It appears that you're now just trying to have an argument about nothing!
You didn't read what I wrote, I said people can be perfectly sane yet their convictions regarding religion can still be irrational, you mentioned the words insane, deranged, crazy and mentally ill.
I also didn't claim to be certain about anything, I used the adverb probably. However even If I had, I hardly think it ignorant, (and I'm not sure how it could possibly be bigoted) perhaps you do question your personal beliefs, I am talking however about critical thinking, looking at evidence on both sides, looking at your beliefs from a logical, scientific and objective point of view. Do you do that?

Actually it was wpk who used the word 'insane' in his original post here that started this whole discussion about people who believe differently than he does must be insane... try and keep up

And yes, I am a very critical thinker - especially when it comes to my deepest convictions. I know it might challenge your preconceieved stereotypes, but it is true...

Ha ha, what stereotypes are those? If you did think critically about religion you would conclude that religious belief is irrational, that is all I'm saying, you seem to take offence at this and I don't know why. I have an irrational fear of spiders, it's not a bad thing, (or maybe in my case it is) nevertheless it's still irrational.

 

[TylerStewart]

If you did think critically about religion you would conclude that religious belief is irrational, that is all I'm saying, you seem to take offence at this and I don't know why. I have an irrational fear of spiders, it's not a bad thing, (or maybe in my case it is) nevertheless it's still irrational.

I think critically about religion, very critically, and I don't see it as irrational at all. Much about religion is faith-based. I don't need hard facts to confirm what I believe. If someone thinks it's irrational, that's their own opinion and isn't going to change mine. I've had several pretty significant events happen in my life that confirmed to me that my religious beliefs are on the right track.

 

[chadk]

Ha ha, what stereotypes are those?

That anyone who is 'religious' has not thought critically about their beliefs. That they are irrational in their beliefs.

If you did think critically about religion you would conclude that religious belief is irrational,

Thanks for making my point. I know many who approach their religious beliefs with critical thinking and rationality. And clearly there are those who don't. I also know many who are NOT critical or rational in their anti-religious beliefs and aethistic beliefs. But that goes with just about anything as you've pointed out with spiders - some will approach them rationally, others will have an irrational response to seeing them. (of course, that is a silly comparison... but i'm just working with your exmaple best I can...)

 

[dolfanjack]

Another story that is (somewhat) related to this topic, the Imaam (?) responsible for wanting the Mosque near ground zero was warning that if there is anything done to block the Mosque from being built, there may be an increased risk for retaliation from radical muslims.
This is why most americans have problems with all muslems. If muslems don't get what they want the threat of retaliation from radical muslems is used. When this happens the appearance that all muslems are radicals come to light.

If people want to believe in GOD that is their choice, It's religion and the rules that govern them that I have a problem with. You have hateful christians and peaceful christians interpreting the bible as they wish, you have peaceful muslims and radical muslims interpreting the quran. GOD isn't the reason for wars, its religion.

 

[Len B]

WHATEVER,, The decision to burn or not to burn may be made by the Local Fire Marshall.