Questions about Thor (picture heavy)

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Seiryu

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So I've had Thor for about 8 months now. I got him at roughly 4 months old, so he's about a year old now. He has always looked this way since I got him anyways. I mean, the very slight bumps were there when I got him. Not sure how well the pictures will be, but these were the best I could get. Any closer and they became too fuzzy.

He Weighs 70-72g (I've been weighing him a lot recently to track his growth). He is 69mm SCL and 54mm Width.

Was wondering if he looked like he's Pyramiding or hitting a growth spurt? He has always had these slight bumps when I got him though, his shell was never 100% smooth.

Here is Thor as of today.
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And again today.
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Thor when he was maybe 5 months old.
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If he looks like he's pyramiding, after reading my husbandry below, let me know if you can see anything that needs to be changed.

This is how I've kept him, everything listed below is about husbandry, diet, etc.

His substrate has always had a humidity of 50-70%. Has a warm, humid hide. Basking temp is 92-100 (depending on time of day). But always between that. Ambient room temperate is between 73-80.

His enclosure seen below is 6x4 feet. He has 2 UVB fluorescent bulbs. The side with the fixtures (6x2 ft) is always moist and humid. However the other half (where it's just plants). Is kept dryer. With watering the plants, moisture gets on that side and the humidity is usually between 20-40%. Which is low, but he's only ever over there for when he walks around, and maybe about 30mins to 1 hour a day. The rest he is always on humid substrate. Substrate is 50/50 coconut coir/play sand.

He has access to water all the time, which I change out 3-4 times a day. I see him drink daily. He always gets a 15minute soak twice a week.

There are Begonia's, 2 cacti plants, an aloe vera and a hibiscus plant in his enclosure.

The enclosure. You can tell what is moist, and what isn't. I hadn't quite finished adding all the water yet when I took the picture. But the area that is darker brown is where he spends 90% of his day and sleeps in that hide near the heat lamp.
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Diet in order from Most fed to Least: Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Dandelion Greens (I don't feed the stem part, just the leaf area), Frisee, Mache, Grasses (I cut them into about 1/2" inch pieces and sprinkle it on his greens), Mazuri (2 pellets a week, Monday/Friday) Hibiscus leaves/flowers, and Clover.

And then these roughly the same of which I feed very minimal of. Red/Green Romaine, Leaf lettuce, Oak leaf lettuce, Mizuna, and whatever else is in the spring mix except spinach (too many to list).

And to add to his diet. I grow my own Mustard, Radish and Collard greens, which he got a lot of last summer and they will be added in once they are growing here again. But that diet is what he got this winter.

I feed him smaller pieces of everything, instead of huge leaves of 1 or 2 things. I like being able to use 5-10 things per meal, rather than 1 or 2. And it helps me camouflage the grass better too :p. He gets pure calcium carbonate sprinkled on his greens daily. He is fed twice a day. Once at 9am and then at 4pm.

I pick about 8-12, 6 inch pieces of grass.
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And then I cut it up into 1/2" pieces.
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And here is his greens.
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Grasses/weeds I am growing from the grazing tortoise seed mix from Carolinapetsupply.
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As far as outside goes. Currently building his temporary outdoor enclosure (4x6ft). I have taken him outside everyday if the temperature has been like 70 or above. Anywhere from 20mins to an hour. This spring/summer he'll be outside all day, weather permitted. Being in Michigan, he is inside from late October to May. With some warmer days in there on occasion I'll take him outside.

And to close. As Thor is now a year old. I am hoping he will start to eat more grasses. Him having more fiber is something I know he needs more of, but at this point though, he doesn't seem interested in them. I've been told by multiple people, good luck getting him to eat grass this young. So me adding in small pieces of it has been the only way he'll eat it.

Again, any suggestions on anything is appreciated, thanks!
 

Stephanie Logan

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Thor is such a cutie! I love the way he's posed for the second photo. :D

I don't know much about Sulcata, but I think I've read on the forum that they don't eat much hay or grass till they're two or three years old...

Keep posting those photos so he can be analysed by the experienced and admired by the rest of us! ;)
 

Tom

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Sounds like you are doing everything great. He is pyramiding, but only a little. I would suggest bumping up the humidity. You listed the percentages in different areas of the enclosure, but what about the ambient air in the room?

When I set my gauge on the substrate it reads 75-85%, but if I set it on top of the humid hide in the same enclosure, it reads 50ish which is the ambient room humidity. There is only about a 4" height difference there.

I'd wet down both sides of your enclosure and try to humidify the room, as well. The winter air inside a heated home tends to be VERY dry. This may be your problem.

I'm also a big fan of daily soaks for small ones, but not everyone agrees. I don't see how it could hurt. If they have more hydration than they need, they will just pee more. No harm done.

I like the way you are introducing the grass. That's the same way I do it and it has always worked for me. I think when people say the little ones won't eat grass they are referring to the dried grass hay, not fresh green grass.

I think you are doing a great job with Thor and he's lucky to have you as an owner.
 

Rhyno47

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Not going against Tom, but I give my sully 5 very moist pellets of Mazuri once every few days. I let them soak until they fall apart then squeeze them slightly to form them into a spongy block. This way he gets a lot of water as he eats.
 

Yvonne G

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Just a point of clarification: Thor is a baby leopard.
 

Seiryu

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Yes, he's a leopard, hence in the leopard section :p

And the Mazuri he gets is completely soaked and squishy.

When I feed him, I stick him in the water and he usually sits in there for at least a couple of minutes too and always drinks. Just the 2 soaks a week, he's in the water for a good 15 minutes.

Ya, the humidity on top of Thor's hide there is about 60% when the substrate is 70% or so. So what he's getting (measuring it at top of shell height) is always at least 50%.

As far as the rest of the substrate goes. Like I said, he goes over there only when he makes his daily laps. Never sleeps or stays over there. But I will give that a shot.
 

Stephanie Logan

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Oops, I just saw the "Leopard Lounge" tag, and I was wondering about his coloring when I first saw the photo, but the brain link was completely ruptured...hey, I spent the day with some rowdy 2nd graders! I'm entitled to one fatigue-related error. :p

Sorry about that, Thor is a great-looking Leopard tortoise!! :rolleyes:

Is there another tortoise on the forum named Thor that is a Sulcata?
 

terrypin

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hi i do sympathise it can be so difficult to give them a good fibrous and nutriscious diet that they will eat.i have raised several groups of hatchlings over the years but my current ones are by far the better shaped animals.first of all they do have a very high demannd for uv so unless they have access to sunshine daily (which mine certainly dont for a good part of the year like your own),we must use the very best of lamps.i use megaray at one end with an additional daylight striplight running the length of their indoor enclosure to increase light density and promote activity.my younger leopards when indoors are kept in my cellar room with an ambient temperature overnight of between 18 and 20c and a daytime about 24c.the basking spot is set between 30 and 34c.the background humidity is about 60% at its lowest during the day and between 70 and 80% overnight.the humidity on their tables varies and in the basking area does get very low and progress higher towards the edge of the table rising to about 60%.for the first couple of years i soak them daily and always give them access to a water bowl they can walk right into for a soak whenever they feel the need.i feed a mix of coarse hand picked weeds like sowthistle, hawkbit and various plantain and dandelion just to name a few common ones this is mixed 50/50 by bulk with very well chopped lawn grasses i cut the grasses small no bigger than about 10mm,then mix this together and spay water onto the whole mixture so it sticks to your fingers.before adding the water i sprinkle a little vionate mutivitamin and calcium supplement.im sorry if this is turning into an essay so here is a quick video of one of mine eating chopped grasses at about the same age as yours and a picture of a hatchling a couple of days old and then again at 18months.
terry
just click on the first picture.

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Tom

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Terrypin: Good advice and really nice pics. You certainly get some cold and clammy weather in the UK. How do you do with URTIs with your routine? The certainly look fantastic and healthy.
 

terrypin

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Tom said:
Terrypin: Good advice and really nice pics. You certainly get some cold and clammy weather in the UK. How do you do with URTIs with your routine? The certainly look fantastic and healthy.
thanks for the comments,can i ask what are URTIs .bet i feel stupid when you say lol.
terry
 

Tom

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terrypin said:
Tom said:
Terrypin: Good advice and really nice pics. You certainly get some cold and clammy weather in the UK. How do you do with URTIs with your routine? The certainly look fantastic and healthy.
thanks for the comments,can i ask what are URTIs .bet i feel stupid when you say lol.
terry

Upper Respiratory Tract Infections. Bubbles, nasal discharge, wheezy breathing, etc...

It seems to be a problem in some areas and conditions, with some leopard tortoises here, and not an issue at all in other cases. I'm trying to put all the pieces together and figure out why some have a problem and others, in seemingly similar circumstances, don't. It was definitely cold and clammy in South Africa in the fall, but none of their Leopards had any URTI problems at all. They all lived outside with no external heat source of any kind. There is some detail that we are missing in captivity.
 

terrypin

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Tom said:
terrypin said:
Tom said:
Terrypin: Good advice and really nice pics. You certainly get some cold and clammy weather in the UK. How do you do with URTIs with your routine? The certainly look fantastic and healthy.
thanks for the comments,can i ask what are URTIs .bet i feel stupid when you say lol.
terry

Upper Respiratory Tract Infections. Bubbles, nasal discharge, wheezy breathing, etc...

It seems to be a problem in some areas and conditions, with some leopard tortoises here, and not an issue at all in other cases. I'm trying to put all the pieces together and figure out why some have a problem and others, in seemingly similar circumstances, don't. It was definitely cold and clammy in South Africa in the fall, but none of their Leopards had any URTI problems at all. They all lived outside with no external heat source of any kind. There is some detail that we are missing in captivity.

haha lol i did figure it out after a few moments looking bewildered.im not sure what the problem is but i have been very lucky with these.the one thing i can say is they dont do draughts and my hatchling tables are up high off the floor.when i got my very first cb hatchlings in 1996 i was breeding hermans and graeca graeca then and kept any hatchlings indoors in open topped pens on the floor.so i did this with these first hatchlings.what a disaster they hardly moved and ate very little i read everything i could find ( no computer in those days )about them and the weather and climate in south africa.when it is cold over there the humidity was lower and in the warmer season the humidity was higher.so working on all this i moved them into a white conti board viv that was very brightly lit this seemed to perk them up and they actually thrived. at about 150mm i moved them outdoors into a heated insulated shed permanently and i am now breeding from these animals today.i no longer use a viv as i find it is impossible to use uv heat and light combi lamps and keep the humidity up and the heat down,so now i use a whole room as a massive vivarium and this has decent airflow yet i can maintain the humidity without it getting stagnant.i also have a good temperature and humidity gradient across the tables.i hope this helps and doesnt confuse matters even more.
terry
just a couple more pic's lol.
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Tom

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Not confusing at all. It adds more valuable pieces to the puzzle. Thank you.
 
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