PURE ALBINO SULCATAS...

[DeanS]

Joe seems to have the first clutch of pure albino sulcatas...and hence...the price of these guys has plummeted...sort of! Whereas they were $3500 and up in the past, his are going for $2500.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=889038

 

[jbean7916]

Ad's not there anymore

 

[DeanS]

...it's back up this morning!

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=889038

 

[jbean7916]

Got it. My question is what makes this any different than an albino that is produced from a het to het? The genetic makeup is still the same, it doesn't make a "stronger breed".

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I was thinking the same thing. They are that much more money just because they are prettier??

 

[DeanS]

I was thinking the same thing. They are that much more money just because they are prettier??

Frankly, I don't think they're 'prettier.' That red eye just messes the whole thing up! They can't be in the sun...as opposed to the ivories, which can be in the sun all day! This guy is only making it a little more affordable for those who do want albinos! I'm not one of them...but I thought I'd make him a little more visible

 

[AnthonyC]

Dean, I have no intention of purchasing one (way out of my league!), but I was wondering if the albinism effects their longevity??

 

[dmarcus]

Not being able to be in the sun would make for a hard sell. To much money for me either way..

 

[Joe]

Hello. This is "Joe". And I have been on this forum for years. I am afraid that Dean S. has been giving everyone some false information on the True Pink Eyed Sulcatas. I am not sure where he got his information from about "True Pink Eyed" Albinos not being able to be in the sun. It is a totally ridiculous statement! I speak from first hand experience in working with these animals! The 2 True Albino Adults were raised from babies in the South Florida sun!!!!! And they made it to Adult hood with no issues what so ever. They bask out in the sun all the time. Then when they are hot they seek shade. No different from a normal Sulcata. I also have a friend that has raised a Male from hatchling to Adult in South Florida with no problem in the sun. And there aren't too many places in the US that get hotter than South Florida with the exception of a very few states.

I have also heard different false statements made that include that Ivories are the only Sulcata Morph that can be out in the sun. Completely false once again! The True Pink eyed Albinos do not go blind either, as suggested by Dean S. and some others, as I watch the forum periodically. As I stand across the pen and hold up a strawberry and they practically run over to me. A blind tortoise would not recognize that a strawberry was in my hand! Nor do they bump into anything as a blind tortoise would demonstrate. Just thought I would stop the false statements from being made for which it seems to enhance the sale of the "Ivory Sulcata". Hope this clears the air for everyone. I wish everyone the very best and now the "truth" has been spoken. Have a great day everyone. Joe....

PS.- I will be happy to answer any questions, as I have been raising Sulcata for over 15 years and I am also currently working on a 3rd morph in the future!

---

This is to JBean question. "How does it make a stronger breed?" Of course it does, and here's why. When you have babies of parents that have adapted and have been raised successfully in extreme environments, it makes the babies that much stronger as opposed to Het. to Het. breeding. Its simply science and evolution. For example. Here in south Florida we have many non native species such as Burmese Pythons and Iguanas. The last couple of years we have had some really cold snaps and practically all of the first generation of both species were killed as a result of the cold weather. Studies have shown through Fish and Game, and researchers that the only remaining animals that survived the cold snaps were offspring of those first generation animals. These offspring, which have now become a super strain of genetics that have evolved and adapted to conditions that should normally would kill them. And now Carpet Pythons and Burmese are breeding as well down here making a "super snake" as the researchers put it!

This happens as years go by, as with all breeds of animals they evolve and get stronger. Hence, the reason. The Albino babies, of Albinos parents that have been raised in extreme conditions, will be genetically stronger.

By the way, I do know of several people personally that have purchased Pink Eyed Albinos through Het. to Het. breeding and they did not make it. Now, that could be from poor husbandry, a weaker gene, or simply those animals were sick. Yes, the albinos bred Het. to Het. look exactly the same, but the genetic make up and strength of the strain is most certainly different.

 

[DeanS]

Good to know Joe! I was only going on info from other breeders that hatched out albinos...and I'm not the only one. Thanks for 'clearing the air'...I think your last paragraph there is what most (including myself) have considered 'gospel'...forgive the misinformation

 

[l0velesly]

Those little pink-eyed babies are so darn adorable. It'd be nice to own one :]

 

[jbean7916]

This is to JBean question. "How does it make a stronger breed?" Of course it does, and here's why. When you have babies of parents that have adapted and have been raised successfully in extreme environments, it makes the babies that much stronger as opposed to Het. to Het. breeding. Its simply science and evolution. For example. Here in south Florida we have many non native species such as Burmese Pythons and Iguanas. The last couple of years we have had some really cold snaps and practically all of the first generation of both species were killed as a result of the cold weather. Studies have shown through Fish and Game, and researchers that the only remaining animals that survived the cold snaps were offspring of those first generation animals. These offspring, which have now become a super strain of genetics that have evolved and adapted to conditions that should normally would kill them. And now Carpet Pythons and Burmese are breeding as well down here making a "super snake" as the researchers put it!

This happens as years go by, as with all breeds of animals they evolve and get stronger. Hence, the reason. The Albino babies, of Albinos parents that have been raised in extreme conditions, will be genetically stronger.

By the way, I do know of several people personally that have purchased Pink Eyed Albinos through Het. to Het. breeding and they did not make it. Now, that could be from poor husbandry, a weaker gene, or simply those animals were sick. Yes, the albinos bred Het. to Het. look exactly the same, but the genetic make up and strength of the strain is most certainly different.

What extreme conditions are we talking about though? I mean how "extreme" is a backyard, covered shelter? Albinos don't survive in the wild because they are easily spotted... in captivity though, we protect them as if they were our own children thus lessening the likelyhood of a predator grabbing them.

If I raise to Het albinos in "extreme" conditions (whatever that may mean) then it stands to reason that my albino torts will be just as strong of a bloodline. So my question is, what "extreme" conditions are these albinos enduring for this guy to make that claim?




Oh and just for full disclosure; I know genetics, I breed reptiles. I understand recessive, dominate and co-dominate genes.

 

[Joe]

Hello Jbean. The extreme conditions I was referring to is the SUN!!!! What else? That is what the whole topic of discussion was about. So, I am confused as to how you did not understand what I was referring to.

I live in South Florida. Which is probably in the top 5 States for extreme hot temperatures. The statement that Albinos could not handle the sun was not true. And to comment on your statement, "If I raise to Het albinos in "extreme" conditions (whatever that may mean) then it stands to reason that my albino torts will be just as strong of a bloodline." The Hets. are normal sulcatas and are not Albinos. The Hets. are normals sulcatas that carry the gene for Albinism. No light skin or Pink eyes. I was merely clearing the air on some false comments that were made here. I have no doubt that you know genetics. But, survival of the fittest comes in to play.
Just like the example I gave for the Iguanas and Pythons. The only difference is that we are dealing with Albinism and the Pythons and Iguanas first generation animals were normals. Albinos that have been successfully raised from babies in extreme conditions are most certainly going to have stronger offspring then that of those first generation animals produced by Normal animals. Just using the Theory of Evolution that's all. I did not make it up. All my best. Joe...

PS.- Thanks for owning up to the false statement Dean S. No worries. That always happens with rumors or hearsay. All my best, Joe....

 

[jbean7916]

Hello Jbean. The extreme conditions I was referring to is the SUN!!!! What else? That is what the whole topic of discussion was about. So, I am confused as to how you did not understand what I was referring to.

I live in South Florida. Which is probably in the top 5 States for extreme hot temperatures. The statement that Albinos could not handle the sun was not true. And to comment on your statement, "If I raise to Het albinos in "extreme" conditions (whatever that may mean) then it stands to reason that my albino torts will be just as strong of a bloodline." The Hets. are normal sulcatas and are not Albinos. The Hets. are normals sulcatas that carry the gene for Albinism. No light skin or Pink eyes. I was merely clearing the air on some false comments that were made here. I have no doubt that you know genetics. But, survival of the fittest comes in to play.
Just like the example I gave for the Iguanas and Pythons. The only difference is that we are dealing with Albinism and the Pythons and Iguanas first generation animals were normals. Albinos that have been successfully raised from babies in extreme conditions are most certainly going to have stronger offspring then that of those first generation animals produced by Normal animals. Just using the Theory of Evolution that's all. I did not make it up. All my best. Joe...

PS.- Thanks for owning up to the false statement Dean S. No worries. That always happens with rumors or hearsay. All my best, Joe....

Well I was confused because you never once mentioned the word SUN in the part where you were speaking to me. I just guess with what I already know about genetics I would never assume that an albino couldn't survive in the sun. I don't see how putting a perfectly healthy (albeit different genetically) tortoise in the sun makes it any stronger than putting another tortoise in the sun? I don't see how this becomes "extreme conditions" because of the different in skin tone or eye color.

I understand theory of evolution, I'm not saying you are making anything up. I just don't believe that albino ANYTHING that is raised in captivity follows the laws of "survival of the fittest". Your argument makes no sense. They are not raised in any different conditions than their normal siblings, cousins, etc. They don't have to do anything differently, they are feed the right stuff by us, brought in when it's too cold, covered with wire tops so they can't get taken by predators, in fact, they are a weaker version of the species if you follow your logic.

 

[nikki0601]

An albino Sulcata or any other albino animal for that matter, are they born with all the impairments of the typical human with albinism? I've never been attracted to the albino breeds because of the difficulties I know comes along with it, there are 5 vision disorders related to albinism and also the sensitivity to Sun light..

 

[Yvonne G]

Calm down, Holly. Joe was merely trying to clear up the confusion about albino tortoises not being able to be in the sun.

I wonder if some of you would like to take this to the debate section?

 

[Len B]

I don't know anything about albino sulcata's except for what I've read, and I could never understand why the sun would bother them,I have an albino red ear slider that is outside everyday of the year, even hibernates during winter,she bask in the hot summer sun like all res do.Her vision is poor, compared to the normal or het res that I have, maybe that will improve with future offspring, who knows? But she is just as hardy as the rest of them. Len

 

[jbean7916]

Calm down, Holly. Joe was merely trying to clear up the confusion about albino tortoises not being able to be in the sun.

I wonder if some of you would like to take this to the debate section?

I'm sorry, I am calm.

I was just trying to clear up why the ad would post this as a stronger line.

I didn't realize that healthy debating wasn't allowed in the forums unless under a specific thread.

 

[DeanS]

PS.- Thanks for owning up to the false statement Dean S. No worries. That always happens with rumors or hearsay. All my best, Joe....

I never said my statement was false! On the contrary...I just have not heard of any albinos that can withstand extended periods of sunlight...except yours, apparently! I'm not starting a war here, but if you've been around the forum for a couple of years...you owed it to the community (and yourself) to defend the stability of albinos. As it is, you've done that now. Maybe you can start a thread of your own...and provide some in-depth 'firsthand' info...replete with pictures. Also, I only started this thread to promote your animals...since, as far as I know, you are the first to breed albino to albino.

 

[Tom]

Hi Joe. I wish someone with your experience would post more often.

You are the first person who I have ever heard say that albinos sulcatas in the sun is not a problem. I have heard this continuously from every breeder and keeper that I have ever talked to about it. I'm talking about people are are heavily into tortoises, and or the reptile industry. It has been this way since I first heard about albino sulcatas back in the 90's. I remember seeing one for sale a long time ago for around $10,000.

I don't have, and have never had any albino sulcatas, so I have zero experience with them, but why does everyone, except you, think they they cannot be in the direct sunlight without going blind? I'm not saying you are wrong, because I wouldn't know one way or the other, but why does everyone think this?