Purchased Sulcata, Built Large Habitat, Need Advice

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
Its name is Rabbit!
My fiance and I are the new owners. We live in North Central Florida. We are very fortunate to have come across this forum for information!
We bought our tortoise from a local reptile store for $159 this past weekend. Not sure of his age or sex. We built a large indoor habitat for him. The first day in his new habitat he was very active and was really moving around. He seemed excited with his new surroundings. After his initial "FEAST" of tomato, banana, and romaine he became very sluggish and has remained so the past 24 hours. He came out of his hide-box today by coaxing him with a banana, took a nibble on his mazuri diet and then for his daily soak. He has been active for a brief period following his soak but not nearly as much as yesterday. His soak several hours after the "FEAST" yesterday resulted in a large discharge or the white toothpaste, today his discharge was minimal. There are pictures below w/commentary, I have several questions.
....
Here's Rabbit at the store! Pyramiding?
img20110316143755.jpg


....

Here he is feasting with us for the first time! We tried to use toothpaste to get the marker off his shell, any suggestions?
img20110320184421.jpg


....

Here was his habitat the first day. We changed it a little since the photo below as he burrowed a little area all the way down to the plywood in the upper right corner. So after this picture we added a hide box to that upper corner. His "spot".
img20110320182511.jpg


....

Here is several photos of his altered habitat today. He spent most of his day in the box in the corner. We pushed a lot repti-bark into the box for him to burrow/hide since that area seems to be his favorite.
img20110321175837.jpg


Menace(cat) watching Rabbit. Menace is very friendly with him, the tortoise doesn't seem to mind the company the past two days either. We have watched very carefully.
img20110321180931.jpg


....

Here is all of the supplies used in his tank. Please advise if any of this is incorrect or needs alteration.
ZooMed Repti Bark 100% pure fir bark (substrate)
ExoTerra/ReptiGlo 5.0 UVB (bulb)
ZooMed Repti Basking Spot Lamp 75w (bulb)
ZooMed combo deep dome lamp fixture (Holds bulbs)
Mazuri Diet (pellets)
T-Rex/Repashy Superfoods Tortoise supplement Salad Topper
We have lots of fresh fruits/veggies as well are all of these ok?
banana, tomato, romaine lettuce, mango, carrot, seedless grapes, cantaloupe, kiwi
img20110322005143.jpg


...

There are lots of photos, thankyou if you have made it this far!

His temperature in his habitat is 98 in basking area, 75 on opposite side of habitat and there is a temp range within his corner hidebox. We cycle the lightbulbs 12on/12off. Our home temperature is 75, by morning this is the temperature of his habitat, should this be a concern?

God bless
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Stop using the coil bulb right away! We must have seen this 100 times here on the forum. Those coil bulbs seem to damage their eyes and cause extreme lethargy. Use a mercury vapor bulb instead.

The white stuff is urates. Fairly normal.

Soaks need to be warm shallow water in a tub of some sort for 10-20 minutes. I like to do it daily. They still need a shallow water bowl. Terra cotta saucers work very well for this and they are cheap.

Read up on diet. Fruit is not good for them. They need leafy greens, weeds (look up which types), and grass. He's probably got a horrible belly ache.

Here's how I like to take care of them:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1HIQFyFRy

Yes, he's pyramiding, but everything you can do about it is explained in the care sheet above.
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
Tom said:
Stop using the coil bulb right away! We must have seen this 100 times here on the forum. Those coil bulbs seem to damage their eyes and cause extreme lethargy. Use a mercury vapor bulb instead.

The white stuff is urates. Fairly normal.

Soaks need to be warm shallow water in a tub of some sort for 10-20 minutes. I like to do it daily. They still need a shallow water bowl. Terra cotta saucers work very well for this and they are cheap.

Read up on diet. Fruit is not good for them. They need leafy greens, weeds (look up which types), and grass. He's probably got a horrible belly ache.

Here's how I like to take care of them:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1HIQFyFRy

Yes, he's pyramiding, but everything you can do about it is explained in the care sheet above.
Take back both of the bulbs?
Do they make MVB that will fit in a dual lamp holder and what wattage should I get If I buy 2/1,
Maybe a night time bulb (What type mvb too??) and a mvb for the day
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Yes, I'd take back both of those bulbs. For an enclosure that large I'd use a 160 watt MVB. It gives you heat, light and UV all in one. You can use a 100 watt, but the 160 will warm a larger area within the enclosure. Adjust the height of the fixture to get the temp that you want. I like it a little over 100, but only right under the hottest part of the lamp. You can buy a ceramic fixture for it at any hardware store for about $12. If your house and enclosure really stay 75 or higher all the time, even on the really cold winter nights, then you shouldn't need any night heat. If you want some any way, I'd use a ceramic heating element. They give off heat, but keep it dark for night time.
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
Tom said:
Yes, I'd take back both of those bulbs. For an enclosure that large I'd use a 160 watt MVB. It gives you heat, light and UV all in one. You can use a 100 watt, but the 160 will warm a larger area within the enclosure. Adjust the height of the fixture to get the temp that you want. I like it a little over 100, but only right under the hottest part of the lamp. You can buy a ceramic fixture for it at any hardware store for about $12. If your house and enclosure really stay 75 or higher all the time, even on the really cold winter nights, then you shouldn't need any night heat. If you want some any way, I'd use a ceramic heating element. They give off heat, but keep it dark for night time.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4005372&utm_source=googleproduct&utm_campaign=5152636&utm_medium=cse&mr:trackingCode=81DE95A6-F159-DF11-9DA0-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA
For humidity, I am in Florida, is this a concern other than alterations to the hide box. His habitat is very open and solid wood only the bottom piece is pressure treated..
Should I just mist the fir bark substrate, it says on the bag it is excellent for retaining moisture for high humidity environments
 

Dizisdalife

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
1,754
Location (City and/or State)
California
The MVB light and/or ceramic heating element will decrease the humidity. Some people use a plastic liner (like a shower curtain) below the substrate and then moisten the substrate. My sulcata is just over a year old and I keep his enclosure a minimum of 80 degrees at night.

When I got my tortoise he was about 9 months old, small for his size, his shell was beginning to pyramid, he had a runny nose, and later I found he had pin worms. He wasn't very active and didn't have much appetite, although he did eat and move around. Following the advice from members of this forum, using the methods in the link from Tom's post, and with a visit to a decent reptile vet all of these problems have been straightened out. The little guy's runny nose is gone, he has smooth shell growth, he has almost doubled in weight, and has been de-wormed. It has taken much more effort than I expected. Now that he is growing so well I will need to build a larger enclosure for him, something like the one you have built.
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
ok...so we bought a new mercury vapor bulb and lamp. We took rabbit outside today for an hour to get some Florida sunshine and some exercise. Were working on a humid hide for him.:tort:
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Just remember that all these opinions are based on our individual experiences. Everyone's situation is different. The climate where I am is VERY dry all year long, so you might need to adjust for FL. I know lots of tortoise keepers in FL and I haven't seen any problems with sulcatas yet.
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
Tom said:
Just remember that all these opinions are based on our individual experiences. Everyone's situation is different. The climate where I am is VERY dry all year long, so you might need to adjust for FL. I know lots of tortoise keepers in FL and I haven't seen any problems with sulcatas yet.

Are you saying we maybe don't need a humid hide?
He was very active sluggish today at start. We had his light off while we were out for a couple hours to buy the new one. Petsmart has zoomed Powersun 100w MVB on sale from 69.99 for 39.99. We bought him one of those came home took him out for an hour and he just scurried around the entire time and nibbled on several grass blades when he scurried into the shade for a couple minutes. He seemed to love being outside today, he was all perky and excited. We brought him back in and hooked up his light. He napped for two hours in the house and is now up again and has eaten about 5 mazuri pellets and is basking in his powersun now. We just had to move the light lower as his basking spot temperature was only at 78 after 2 hours. We are learning :)
We misted his substrate today, about half of a cup of water spread out. and his shell. The water on his shell was absorbed/evaporated very quickly. When we fed him we filled up his food dish with shallow water and he seemed to enjoy that. Thanks Tom!
To humid hide or not to humid hide?
Should I move the powersun light to a more central cage location?
(It is producing what it needs but it definitely isn't as bright as the two BLINDLING bulbs)
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I'd leave the powersun over one side or the other, so he has plenty of room to get away from it when he wants to. If it were me, I would offer a humid hide for sure. I have found that when things get very humid they will use them less. So giving the tortoise the option seems like the best bet to me. I had mine as wet as wet can get and had ZERO problems, so I see no reason why using one in FL, in a more moderate situation, should be any problem for you. Other tortoise owners in FL certainly use them and have good results. I'm just trying to express that there is more than one way to do it right and since I've never lived or raised tortoises in FL, you should take all these generalities and use your best judgement about what to do in your neck of the woods.
 
M

Maggie Cummings

Guest
Please no fruit. Yes, he will eat it and yes he will love it, but their kidneys can't process sugar like ours can so fruit is really not good for them... Feeding excessive fruit or soft foods frequently leads to repeated flagellate (a type of parasite) and other gut problems such as colic, most probably as a result of increased gut motility.
The sugar content of fruit will also alter the pH of the gut which results in a die off of the normal gut flora.

Try some Spring Mix instead with some dark leafy greens added such as: Endive, Watercress,Collard Greens, Kale, Dandelion, Chicory, Escarole, Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Opuntia .

The diet should be at least 70% grasses and hay. Not surprisingly, given its preference for grassland habitats the Sulcata grazes, extensively upon mixed grasses weeds, and flowers. It also favors the fruit and pads of the prickly pear (Opuntia sp.), succulents and thistles. "Meat" foods should never be given to because it can lead to excessive growth, high blood-urea levels, kidney/liver problems, and bladder stones.

In captivity it is a common error to feed too much wet food such as lettuce, tomatoes and fruit when in reality this tortoise requires a coarse, high fiber diet.
Long term ingestion of the chemicals commonly sprayed on produce is a health concern. Choose organic greens when possible or be sure to wash in mild soapy water and rinse well. Remove plastic and metal wrappers so your torts don't accidentally ingest these.

Grasses, Clovers, Grape, Mulberry & Fig leaves, Dandelion, Plantain (the weed) , Hibiscus (leaves and flowers), Opuntia, Thistles, Chickweed .


If you can set him up outside where he can graze on your grass he would be much better off.
I don't use a humid hide but I do keep the substrate wet and I try to create humidity up to 80%. I use a black light bulb for heat at night, instead of a CHE. The light bulb is 60 watts and the CHE is 100 watts. I believe the black light bulb uses less electricity. We each have our own way of doing things, that does not make one way right and the other way wrong, it just makes a difference in the way we keep our tortoises...

Try to get his basking spot 95 or 100 degrees...you do that by moving the light up or down and you want the beam pointed straight down, not at an angle...
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
We are working on eating our fruits/veggies ourselves to it doesn't go to waste. Out of the banana, tomato, romaine lettuce, mango, carrot, seedless grapes, cantaloupe, kiwi.. Just stick to the Tomato/Romaine/Carrot Once a week as a treat right?
Where can I find some of those grasses/foods? Mostly grasses, bulk. Any sucess of growing them from seeds, and how quickly will it grow enough for him to eat?
Endive, Watercress,Collard Greens, Kale, Dandelion, Chicory, Escarole, Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Opuntia, Grasses, Clovers, Grape, Mulberry & Fig leaves, Dandelion, Plantain (the weed) , Hibiscus (leaves and flowers), Opuntia, Thistles, Chickweed
I would go to Lowes or Home depot but are pesticides and fertilizers a concern?
Is he ok with timothy hay, didnt mention that before?
Mazuri diet is grasses and stuff right?
Does he eat the red ball on the top of the opuntia plant or the entire thing?
800px-Opuntia_littoralis_var_vaseyi_4.jpg
 

SnakeyeZ

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
800
Location (City and/or State)
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Gorgeous looking tortoise! Every day I enter into this forum and read through the threads I find myself more and more fascinated with sulcata's!
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
We usually like to feed them the spineless opuntia, but they can eat your kind with no problems (it just makes me cringe). They eat the fruit and the green pads.

Darn, darn and double darn! I just WISH there were something we could do about the pet shops selling those darned spiral florescent bulbs!!! :( Your story isn't new. Its the same old, same old. My tortoise was fine and now he's lethargic. Do you use the spiral bulb? yes. "They" said that they fixed them and its ok to use them now, but your story just reaffirms that no, they are NOT fixed. You bought a brand new bulb and your tortoise suffered.

I like your habitat...you really did a nice job on it, but (there's always a 'but,' :p ) its not big enough.

I think your little guy was suffering from a combination of tummy ache from too much rich food and bad light. He should do just fine now that we've got you under our collective wings.

Mazuri is fine. But I only feed it once a week. Some folks feed it every day. Personal choice. In my opinion, grazing outside is the best diet he can have!

Welcome to the forum!!

May we know your name?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
For all of these: "banana, tomato, romaine lettuce, mango, carrot, seedless grapes, cantaloupe, kiwi", you can skip them entirely. If you feed a small amount, once in a while, it won't kill him, but he doesn't need any of it. Its sort of like candy. Tastes good, but not what they need.

For all of these: "Endive, Watercress,Collard Greens, Kale, Dandelion, Chicory, Escarole, Radicchio, Turnip Greens, Opuntia, Grasses, Clovers, Grape, Mulberry & Fig leaves, Dandelion, Plantain (the weed) , Hibiscus (leaves and flowers), Opuntia, Thistles, Chickweed", just use a variety and rotate through all or some of them.

On the opuntia you need the "spineless" variety. They can eat the red fruits too, but the pads are what they really need. You'll have to despine them (even the spineless type has tiny little spines called glocchids) using either and open flame to singe them or running water and some heavy rubber gloves so you can rub all the spines off. You can still use the regular type like what's in your pic but its a lot of work to despine that. Alternatively, you can usually buy it ready to go at "Ethnic" food stores or "Mexican" Grocery Stores like Vallarta Market, for example. They call them "nopales" and the fruit are called "tuna". (I know. Kinda strange.)

Take a look around for weeds growing on your property or anywhere that you are SURE is safe from pesticides and chemicals and then go to the weed ID section and see if you can ID them all. This is really the best thing for them and its FREE. Post pics if you can't find any. Grass clippings are good too. I use scissors or just tear off handfuls.

Hay is great for older ones, but small ones typically won't eat much of it. Timothy, bermuda, and orchard grass hay are all good. When they are little, you can grab a clump of hay in one hand, chop it up nice and small onto a pre-wetted pile of his favorite greens (sort of like sprinkles) and they spray a little more water on top. Give it a couple of minutes and the grass will "re-hydrate". It will look like fresh cut grass clippings. Usually, they will eat it this way as they eat the other stuff underneath it, and this gets them used to the taste and texture. My adults all just eat it plain and dry, like a horse.

And don't forget other succulents like ice plant, jade plant, red apple, elephant bush and aloe.

I like Mazuri, mixed in with other greens about twice a week. But like Yvonne said, this is just personal preference.
 

Rabbit

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
16
Location (City and/or State)
N.Central Florida - Gainesville
Jessica and Matthew
I put a gate on his habitat to let him out after he gets acclimated. We had him out in the house yesterday but realized our house wasn't turtle proof when he found something bright on the carpet! Rabbit came from a 20 gallon fish tank and I knew in a year I would need to prepare a yard for him but for now his habitat with his outside ventures tire him out. He roamed and scurried around for an entire hour! Here is his venture today..
img20110322142845.jpg

img20110322142947.jpg

img20110322143020.jpg

img20110322143333.jpg
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,265
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
That's perfect! All you need to do is circle that ENTIRE area with cinder blocks, two blocks high, and you'll have a nice little exercise yard. You can always expand once you get some property with acreage! haha :)

Yeah, as you've seen, the floor in your house is not a very good place for them to roam.
 

Laura

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
5 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
7,502
Location (City and/or State)
Foothills above Sacramento CA
Careful not to turn your back when he is outside.. they can go faster then you think and disappear!

Yvonne.. can we as a informed forum tortise owners.. Contact the maker of those bulbs and tell them what is happeneing? report them? Go public? get them to stop selling them???!!
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
I s'pose anyone could. I doubt there is only one brand, tho'. Someone would have to take it on as a project, and even though it really, really gripes me, I'm not interested in taking it on.
 

Robert

New Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
772
Location (City and/or State)
Galaxy far, far away...
Great looking tort. Good luck.

I'm sorry if I missed it, but does he have a water dish in his enclosure? He should have access to water at all times. I recommend what others here on the forum recommended to me, a terra cotta saucer from Lowes or Home Depot. They are cheap and can be placed even with substrate. They are easy to clean and your tort can self soak and drink when he needs to.

Good luck!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top