Public vs. Private schools

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Stephanie Logan

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Tyler Stewart wrote:

I've always wanted to entertain the idea of either home schooling or private schooling.... I went to public schools and my kid does now, but it irritates me to no end the amount of politics and "compassion for the poor (lazy)" that they are taught there. He's freakin 7 years old. Last November during the presidential election, my son's class had an election (he was 6 at the time). He didn't know who to vote for, and I hadn't said a word about who I was voting for to him. He came home and told me they had an election. I asked him who he voted for. He proudly said "Obama." I asked him why. His reply: "Well, I didn't know either of them, but my teacher said that if we wanted to help poor people, to vote for Obama." I have since straightened him out hopefully enough that he'll dish it back at the teacher, almost to the point that the "O word" is a bad word in my house. The thought that they might start teaching sex ed to kids this age or just a bit older is completely stupid, and with the current mindset of so many in elected office, might be difficult to avoid soon.

Personally, if it was me, I would rather pay to have my kids go to a school that I chose based on the teachers, and the ability of them to teach my kids well, not based on what they were zoned for. I think every family paying for their kids education or doing it themselves should have a massive tax cut or credit because of it, and people that want to use public schools are welcome to keep doing that. The govt should sell half (or more) of their school buildings to private companies that want to compete in education. Better schools will be able to charge more, and the parents can decide which school they want, or go to public schools at no cost.


***************************************************
I think it's completely unprofessional for a teacher to place political pressure on a student. I have heard of that happening from my own kids' experiences, but interestingly, it is always from the conservative teachers pushing Republican party values! :cool:

In a favorite third grade I taught frequently last year, we had a TFO (Time For Kids) with John McCain on the cover, and the next week one with Barack Obama. When discussing the political process that the accompanying articles were about, I was shocked (and highly amused) at the phrases and slogans that came from the mouths of these 8 and 9 year olds! They definitely were echoing the sentiments of their parents/families! I interrupted to remind them that in our country, we are allowed to criticize and debate the policies and plans of both candidates and of the President himself, and for that we do not go to jail or have to pay fines (or worse, but I didn't say it) because we have the Bill of Rights which guarantees the right of Free Speech. :D

Are all poor people lazy or are all lazy people poor? ;)

So, in what ways would shifting tax revenue from public to private schools help our country maintain its economic hegemony or become more competitive in the future?
 

jblayza

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Sorry, but you can't judge the whole public school system on your daughters school. My children go to public school and are doing great. I would not switch their school if someone else paid for them to go to a private school. Not because I think private schools are bad, but because I like the school they are in. Not all poor people are lazy either, I know this poor old man who does landscaping and works harder than anybody I know. Great thing about this country is you have the right to put your kids in private school if you please as long as your not poor and lazy i guess.
 

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I agree that it's appalling for a teacher to place political pressure on a student. I attended public schools my entire life and that never happened to me. When there were presidential elections we would talk about both candidates, and I can't remember my teachers ever showing a bias.
And like Stephanie said, kids are very entertaining with the political slogans and things they echo! A group of kindergarteners was telling me all about Obama last year ;) In elementary school when we "voted" for the President, I always chose the Republican candidate because that's who my parents voted for. (oh how my opinions have changed...)

My friend's younger siblings currently attend a private Catholic school (K-8) and they are having a problem with sexting at the moment :rolleyes: So I agree with jblayza that you can't judge the entire private vs. public school system based off of one school!
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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Not big on private schools, at least not religious ones... Its scary the things my two cousins learned in their private christian schools.... not beating on Christianity at all... But at their school they learned that dinosaurs walked on earth with man something like 7,000 years ago (maybe they even learn that the earth is flat?)! Plus whenever anybody I know comes out of a school like that, they always refer to people as either, "good because they are christian and go to church" vs "the non-christian, bad people." Just too closed minded for me. My one cousin litterally can't conceive associating with a non-christian person because she thinks that its dangerous or something... And they didn't learn these ideals from their parents, its that school (who knows why my relatives haven't taken them out)... In my extended family, one family's children all go to private christian school, one family home-schooled, and the other two went to private... very interesting differences in the children and parents...
 

terryo

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I never discuss politics with anyone because it leaves such a bad taste in your mouth.
My son goes to a very good college. Only a certain number of kids are taken each year. He was lucky to have gotten a partial scholarship. He told me that most of his professors are very political in their teachings. Some are open to debates, and then there are some that you have to watch what you say when talking about your political views. All his friends from home go to different colleges. Some are sleep away and others are at home community colleges. They all tell me the same thing. Most all professors are Liberal, and try very hard to push their political agenda on these kids.
I was really shocked, as none of my older kids went to college, and I never heard any of this.
If I was able to home school them, I would have, but all my kids went to public school. I remember when one was in 2nd grade they were going to march around the school for some cause, and he asked me to march with him. I told him I was against this cause, and gave him my reasons, but told him he had to make up his own mind about this. When I went to the school he was sitting on the steps waiting for me, while all the class was marching around the school. His teacher said she couldn't believe he refused to march. He never mentioned me or my discussion with him, but gave her his reasons why he wouldn't march. She had told him that she disagreed with him and that he really should march with the rest of the class, but he refused. I was so proud of him and told him I hope I didn't influence him in his decision...I'll never forget his answer....he said "of course you did". I know this was off topic, but I just thought it was a cute kid story.

All my kids went to public school and did just fine. The good values that they were taught at home, had nothing to do with what they learned at public school, but were applied in their daily lives.

We were poor, but believe me none of us were lazy, and we never asked the Government for anything. Myself and my children worked very hard for everything that we had.
 

chadk

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On the flip side, there are those coming out of secular schools that have been twisted to be so anti-Christian that they read it into everything and villify Christians, our Christian heritiage, and paint them all as igorant and closed minded.

terryo said:
I never discuss politics with anyone because it leaves such a bad taste in your mouth.
My son goes to a very good college. Only a certain number of kids are taken each year. He was lucky to have gotten a partial scholarship. He told me that most of his professors are very political in their teachings. Some are open to debates, and then there are some that you have to watch what you say when talking about your political views. All his friends from home go to different colleges. Some are sleep away and others are at home community colleges. They all tell me the same thing. Most all professors are Liberal, and try very hard to push their political agenda on these kids.
I was really shocked, as none of my older kids went to college, and I never heard any of this.
If I was able to home school them, I would have, but all my kids went to public school. I remember when one was in 2nd grade they were going to march around the school for some cause, and he asked me to march with him. I told him I was against this cause, and gave him my reasons, but told him he had to make up his own mind about this. When I went to the school he was sitting on the steps waiting for me, while all the class was marching around the school. His teacher said she couldn't believe he refused to march. He never mentioned me or my discussion with him, but gave her his reasons why he wouldn't march. She had told him that she disagreed with him and that he really should march with the rest of the class, but he refused. I was so proud of him and told him I hope I didn't influence him in his decision...I'll never forget his answer....he said "of course you did". I know this was off topic, but I just thought it was a cute kid story.

That's an awesome story Terry. Schools, any form, are social engineering of one kind or another. If you as the parent are not influencing that space in your child's life, others are lining up to do it for you...
 

TylerStewart

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Not sure how my post in another thread ended up in the first post here, but here goes....

Stephanie Logan said:
I think it's completely unprofessional for a teacher to place political pressure on a student. I have heard of that happening from my own kids' experiences, but interestingly, it is always from the conservative teachers pushing Republican party values! :cool:

Talk about a breath of fresh air! It may happen here and there, but it's pretty common knowledge that teachers have a liberal bias (they are generally in teachers unions, which would only exist if a handful of liberals remain in office to protect them). Professors are the same way; generally liberal. I'm not that old, and I was in college between '99-'02, and it's clearly a left wing tilt in their teaching. You just have to keep your mouth shut, though to get good grades. I don't think politics in school should happen either way, but it's amazing to me that ANYBODY ends up anything but a liberal after being taught that crap through 12-14 years of public and/or college education. Just shows the power and smarts of the few that are able to get through it and see things any other way.

Stephanie Logan said:
Are all poor people lazy or are all lazy people poor? ;)

Not all, no. There's certainly, currently a lot of skilled and hard working people without work. In a normal economy, this isn't really the case though. In a normal economy, any motivated person should be able to find something, even if it's a little less than they hoped. But I think when democrats are in power, as they are between now and November when many of them will get voted out, they thrive in power (and maintain their power) by people being in bad financial conditions. With a bit of sarcasm, if everyone had jobs and was making good money, nobody would vote democrat. It sounds harsh, but it's true. Yes I realize that many of you have jobs and vote democrat. A favorite quote of mine "Historically, the best way to convert liberals is to have them get jobs, move out of their parent's house and start paying taxes." They maintain power by promising people that they will take care of them, so they just put this mindset in people to "hang tight, we're coming to help you," even though they never do anything for the people at the bottom end of the financial situation. As people start to realize that their vote didn't get them a dang thing, enough of them eventually vote republican to change things. History has proven it several times. When republicans take back congress in the November elections (and they will), you will see a jump in the economy quickly, and even moreso after the 2012 presidential elections, because the people with money will create jobs once again. Right now everyone is afraid of being taxed to death. Sad that it'll take that long. I didn't vote for any of them LOL.

Stephanie Logan said:
So, in what ways would shifting tax revenue from public to private schools help our country maintain its economic hegemony or become more competitive in the future?

Well, I just think the taxes that everyone pays into the huge cost of public schools should be taken off of those people that are not contributing their kids into the public school system. There's no reason someone should be paying twice, and really, there's no reason right now that people with no kids are paying those taxes, honestly. Not that any of this will change, though. Look at Colleges and Universities. They compete. The better schools teach better, charge more, and the people that make it through there, in theory, get better jobs. Lower aged schools should be set up the same way. The public school option can and probably should remain an option, so that no kid was left out of an education because his parents didn't want to pay.
 

Stephanie Logan

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I can still remember my child view of the 1968 election: "Humphrey's a Haystack Full of Hairy Hornets" a friend and I would go around chanting. This was at St. Mary's right here in Littleton. :D

In 1972, my mom no longer supported Nixon because she thought he was sneaky and lying...she thought he'd lied to farmers about some policy or legislation, I don't remember...but I was pretty much alone in this view, and I remember clear as crystal my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Jones, looking straight at me in the back of the classroom as she said "As you all know, Nixon won last night in a LANDSLIDE victory!" :cool:

I went to college and graduate school (University of Texas-Austin and University of New Hampshire) and I don't remember ever being influenced by a professor's political views. We did have a discussion group in one class where debate over social and political issues was the norm, but we just exercised our intellects, thoroughly enjoyed it, and sometimes I agreed with the others and sometimes I didn't. I never felt intimidated by opposing points of view, no matter who held them. ;)

I disagree that "schools in any form are social engineering," and even if that's true, think of all the great Americans, present and past, who are a product of public education. It's pretty impressive and mostly positive, and certainly bi-partisan!! :p
 

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I didn't read through the thread, but this is relevant to me as I am a music teacher (in the private after-school sector right now, but working on making a move to public schools). I can't really say more than what I know, and what I know is that the vast majority of private schools have simply awful music programs. Around here you don't technically need to meet any of the state qualifications to be a music teacher in a private school, and from what I understand there are similar problems with other arts programs in private schools (not counting private arts schools, of course), and what's even more terrifying is that I have heard the same about classroom teachers.

But, keep in mind, this is simply my personal observations. There are of course many exceptions, but I personally don't like that fact that in NYS there seem to be almost no standards for private schools. People hear the term 'private school' and assume that it means the education and socialization will be higher quality than public schools.
 

Stephanie Logan

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TylerStewart said:
Talk about a breath of fresh air! It may happen here and there, but it's pretty common knowledge that teachers have a liberal bias (they are generally in teachers unions, which would only exist if a handful of liberals remain in office to protect them). Professors are the same way; generally liberal. I'm not that old, and I was in college between '99-'02, and it's clearly a left wing tilt in their teaching. You just have to keep your mouth shut, though to get good grades. I don't think politics in school should happen either way, but it's amazing to me that ANYBODY ends up anything but a liberal after being taught that crap through 12-14 years of public and/or college education. Just shows the power and smarts of the few that are able to get through it and see things any other way.

Tyler, how is it then that with all that rampant liberal bias in our education system we still have basically a 50-50 electorate? The last several elections were won with 51ish percent voting for one candidate and 49ish percent voting for the other.

We're the most powerful, economically successful nation on earth, universal tax-supported education being one of the founding principles of our democracy, even with all these Democrats in office, now and throughout our country's history?
 

TylerStewart

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Stephanie Logan said:
Tyler, how is it then that with all that rampant liberal bias in our education system we still have basically a 50-50 electorate? The last several elections were won with 51ish percent voting for the Democratic candidate and 49ish percent voting Republican.

It's a miracle, let me tell you! Well, a miracle and voter fraud; both this past time LOL.

Stephanie Logan said:
We're the most powerful, economically successful nation on earth, universal tax-supported education being one of the founding principles of our democracy, even with all these Democrats in office, now and throughout our country's history?

Is that a question?
 

-EJ

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Didn't read the whole thing... totally know the despiration... more so that you're posting this on a tortoise forum.

I'm sorry... but the first thing that comes to mind is Billy Joel.

Yea... I married a catholic schooled girl. I'm a public school guy.

Both have their lessons. This might sound cheesy... Public school is the school of hard knocks... and it's cheaper.

I now read it... that's life.

Oh... do not dump your politics on the kid.

final thought... do you drink or indulge in drugs... consider it.

Just read through the other responses... you are so not alone.

Stephanie Logan said:
Tyler Stewart wrote:

I've always wanted to entertain the idea of either home schooling or private schooling.... I went to public schools and my kid does now, but it irritates me to no end the amount of politics and "compassion for the poor (lazy)" that they are taught there. He's freakin 7 years old. Last November during the presidential election, my son's class had an election (he was 6 at the time). He didn't know who to vote for, and I hadn't said a word about who I was voting for to him. He came home and told me they had an election. I asked him who he voted for. He proudly said "Obama." I asked him why. His reply: "Well, I didn't know either of them, but my teacher said that if we wanted to help poor people, to vote for Obama." I have since straightened him out hopefully enough that he'll dish it back at the teacher, almost to the point that the "O word" is a bad word in my house. The thought that they might start teaching sex ed to kids this age or just a bit older is completely stupid, and with the current mindset of so many in elected office, might be difficult to avoid soon.

Personally, if it was me, I would rather pay to have my kids go to a school that I chose based on the teachers, and the ability of them to teach my kids well, not based on what they were zoned for. I think every family paying for their kids education or doing it themselves should have a massive tax cut or credit because of it, and people that want to use public schools are welcome to keep doing that. The govt should sell half (or more) of their school buildings to private companies that want to compete in education. Better schools will be able to charge more, and the parents can decide which school they want, or go to public schools at no cost.


***************************************************
I think it's completely unprofessional for a teacher to place political pressure on a student. I have heard of that happening from my own kids' experiences, but interestingly, it is always from the conservative teachers pushing Republican party values! :cool:

In a favorite third grade I taught frequently last year, we had a TFO (Time For Kids) with John McCain on the cover, and the next week one with Barack Obama. When discussing the political process that the accompanying articles were about, I was shocked (and highly amused) at the phrases and slogans that came from the mouths of these 8 and 9 year olds! They definitely were echoing the sentiments of their parents/families! I interrupted to remind them that in our country, we are allowed to criticize and debate the policies and plans of both candidates and of the President himself, and for that we do not go to jail or have to pay fines (or worse, but I didn't say it) because we have the Bill of Rights which guarantees the right of Free Speech. :D

Are all poor people lazy or are all lazy people poor? ;)

So, in what ways would shifting tax revenue from public to private schools help our country maintain its economic hegemony or become more competitive in the future?
 

terracolson

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I have went to both school settings and I learned about sex and drugs in both!

I was very concerned about my son and what school he would attend. I choose a public school in Sacramento with the Highest ratings and moved to that district.

If i could afford 800 a month i would send him to the Waldroph school, that is taught on a farm setting/ foreign exchange student program and music class's that require all students to play an instrument
95% of there high school students attend college immediately after high school and that is an amazing number

But i cant afford that and I was once told, it doesnt matter what school your child goes to, its how much you work with them, the school and know there friends.

So Ximon will attend public schools and I will be 100% involved, volunteer and PTO the whole thing..
 

Stephanie Logan

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TylerStewart said:
Is that a question?

Yes, with this sinister and malevolent liberal conspiracy, how do we maintain our country's hegemony? Just dumb luck?

Or maybe having some balance in our political system is GOOD for our country...I could give you a list of Democratic presidents who presided over economic growth, and of course you know that more than 80% of our national debt was incurred by just three presidents: Reagan (whom I loved and voted for), Bush the Elder (whom I respected and voted for), and Bush the Younger (no comment). Hmmm....

And yes, Ed, I'm sorry that I posted this thread in the wrong section.
 

dmmj

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No social agenda? you have obviously never seen a california public school? I have never heard of a teacher pushing so called conserative values, but they all beat each other to push liberal agendas, I can not speak for other states but if you want your kid to get a education do not enroll them in calif ppublic schools. I shudder when I talk to my cousins and ask them what they learned in school today. Most schools in calif no lnonger teach spelling, and this is straight from a school meeting, so I am lucky myself that I literally took my own education into my hands and got out of it what I put into it. As for absolutes not all poor people are lazy, just like not all lazy peopel are poor, you can not IMHO lump all people into one group. Nice topic thanks and that is my 2 cents.
 

Stephanie Logan

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dmmj said:
No social agenda? you have obviously never seen a california public school? I have never heard of a teacher pushing so called conserative values, but they all beat each other to push liberal agendas, I can not speak for other states but if you want your kid to get a education do not enroll them in calif ppublic schools. I shudder when I talk to my cousins and ask them what they learned in school today. Most schools in calif no lnonger teach spelling, and this is straight from a school meeting, so I am lucky myself that I literally took my own education into my hands and got out of it what I put into it. As for absolutes not all poor people are lazy, just like not all lazy peopel are poor, you can not IMHO lump all people into one group. Nice topic thanks and that is my 2 cents.

Certainly. We cannot expect to have your wonderful deadpan humor for free... two cents seems very reasonable to me....:D
 

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Stephanie Logan said:
Yes, with this sinister and malevolent liberal conspiracy, how do we maintain our country's hegemony? Just dumb luck?

I answered that, voter fraud and also an uneducated public that demands freebies.

Stephanie Logan said:
Or maybe having some balance in our political system is GOOD for our country...I could give you a list of Democratic presidents who presided over economic growth, and of course you know that more than 80% of our national debt was incurred by just three presidents: Reagan (whom I loved and voted for), Bush the Elder (whom I respected and voted for), and Bush the Younger. Hmmm....

There will always be republicans to fix the problems, liberals to create them, it's a healthy balance, and I guess that's a good thing.

Your statistics are flawed, and I don't think there's anyone that doubts that in the next 3 years, we will be further in the hole than ever before with out of control spending, bailouts that have done absolutely nothing, and now trying to pay for the "lazy half of the country's" healthcare. Nothing has changed for the better in the past year, and much for the worse (most of the damage has yet to be seen). If you feel that the country is in a better position now than it has been since Reagan, I'm not sure what to tell you.

That piece of land I've been looking at is still on hold, because I know nothing is going to improve until at least November. More depression to come.
 

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Stephanie Logan said:
I can still remember my child view of the 1968 election: "Humphrey's a Haystack Full of Hairy Hornets" a friend and I would go around chanting. This was at St. Mary's right here in Littleton. :D

In 1972, my mom no longer supported Nixon because she thought he was sneaky and lying...she thought he'd lied to farmers about some policy or legislation, I don't remember...but I was pretty much alone in this view, and I remember clear as crystal my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Jones, looking straight at me in the back of the classroom as she said "As you all know, Nixon won last night in a LANDSLIDE victory!" :cool:

I went to college and graduate school (University of Texas-Austin and University of New Hampshire) and I don't remember ever being influenced by a professor's political views. We did have a discussion group in one class where debate over social and political issues was the norm, but we just exercised our intellects, thoroughly enjoyed it, and sometimes I agreed with the others and sometimes I didn't. I never felt intimidated by opposing points of view, no matter who held them. ;)

I disagree that "schools in any form are social engineering," and even if that's true, think of all the great Americans, present and past, who are a product of public education. It's pretty impressive and mostly positive, and certainly bi-partisan!! :p

Again, i tend to agree. What I mean is that 'social engineering' is a natural bi-product of any type of school system, whether intential or not. So as a parent, being active and involved and aware, you can help guide in that area, not leave it to their peers, peer pressure, teachers with agendas, MTV, or whatever to fill that void.

And I do like the checks and balances of differing opinions and political views. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Oh, and we have a Republic, not really a Democracy...

And the taxed based public education system was not something our country was founded on. I think the first tax funded public schools came much later.

There are many many good things about our public schools. Our 2 closest family friends are teachers. So I'm not dogging the entire school and entire history of public schools. I just have some general and specific issues and think that home schooling is a better option for my family.

But as long as the parent is involved and cares - that is really all that matters. There will never be a one size fits all solution...

FYI - our local public schools just lost 2 major legal battles. One regarding how they fund the schools. The judge gave them an F and said they need to do better to live up to the law that requires them to fully fund schools with the tax money they are given. The best response the state had was that by 2018, they would have it worked out.... right.... The other case was regarding 'fuzzy math' the schools have been teaching. The judge again gave them an F and said they need to look into a better math program - one that actually taught kids math that would allow them to function in college and the real world...
 
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