prolapse

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Yvonne G

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A couple years ago I was given a "young male" yellowfoot tortoise. After I had him a while he prolapsed. The vet had a hard time pushing all the "stuff" back inside, but was finally successful and took up a purse-string suture to hold it all inside. After a week or so, the suture was taken out. Then a while later (I don't know that actual time frame because I'm old) "he" dropped some eggs in a pile inside their house. I tried to incubate them, but they didn't make it. So now I knew what caused the prolapse.

As I was walking by the YF house this a.m. I noticed this same tortoise entering her house and her tail looked a bit big. So I brought her in the house, and sure enough, all the tissue from around the inside of the vent is swollen and outside. It's not a true prolapse of any organs, just swollen tissue.

About a week ago I picked up a YF egg from the floor of their house. So I guess she has a few more eggs to push out. Poor thing. I guess she's just not big enough to be laying eggs. She is quite a bit smaller than my other female.

I have a call in to the vet.
 

sibi

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The same thing happened to my aquatic turtle. The problem was a bit more serious because some tissue died and had to be removed. Since then, she did lay some more eggs although they were distorted in shape. I feel for these reptiles who have trouble laying eggs because they're too small. I hope the vet can help her get those eggs out and perhaps he can give her some painkillers. She may lay them without another prolapse, though.
 

Yvonne G

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I'm just back from the vet to the tune of $129. He gave me a big discount too.

Same story as last year, except the rocks are still up in the cecum, not blocking the intestines. The vet gave her a calcium injection, and I'm going to be giving her some real ripe fruit with cut up grass mixed in.

x-ray_zps158a71e8.png
 

sibi

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So, in addition to the eggs,, she has rocks? Will those stones ever come out?
 

wellington

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So, are the egg looking things rocks? I know you said it was a he, right. I also see smaller looking stones, kinda above and behind the large rocks/eggs. Clarify please:D
 

Redstrike

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Well, she has eggs again! That's quite a bit of gravel in there, I hope the fruit & grass do the trick Yvonne. Keep us informed.
 

Yvonne G

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wellington said:
So, are the egg looking things rocks? I know you said it was a he, right. I also see smaller looking stones, kinda above and behind the large rocks/eggs. Clarify please:D

I said I was given a "male" tortoise who later on laid eggs. :D

If you look just to the right of the eggs you'll see a bunch of little round white spots on the x-ray. Those are rocks. The egg looking things are eggs.

I love looking at tortoise x-rays. They are such interesting creatures.
 

Mightymcknighty

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Wow that doesn't look to good, hope to see her better soon ! I agree with liking the x-Ray it's neat too see what's inside and going on thanks hope all is good
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Yeah, so, the rocks are consumed in the absence of seedy diet items, confirmed with animals in the wild as well as other captive groups.

So those giant orange squash, keep those seeds while still wet and slimy, and mix that in with their food, mellon centers (cantaloupe like melons), cucumbers, apple cores (the part most people don't eat). Sized so that if you could just place them in the animals mouth, maybe ten or more would fit. Giant seeds in neonates is not good.

All that slimy stuff (stringy long fiber) and the torpedo shape make it so they go all the way through, and don't get stuck like rocks.

You already provide most of the Manouria with this as off-cast hulls from the animals that share that greenhouse area. Maybe get more of those other animals.

The forest species don't seem to get the same benefit from long fiber in the form of grass, as do the open/savannah. grassland species, they need seediness stuff for some of that gut process. The more lignified veins in tree leaves (mulberry, Vitus vinifera (grape) leaves) help as well as grass, but the seediness seems to not be replaced by these other options.

Is there an echo in here?

Forest species are considered significant seed dispersers. That is how often and frequent they eat seeds - not as a specific purposely sought diet item, but as a part of the other things they eat. However, when those "ride-along-seeds" are missing, they will eat small rocks.

If you were to look for literature on tortoises in tortoise friendly publications (CC&B, Herpetologica, Copeia, etc.) you won't necessarily find this. It is found in journals about forest ecology or journals representing a specific geographical areas, or bio-types.

Even the gopher tortoise is an important seed disperser, but that is more for grass seed.

The artificial diets, Mazuri, ZooMed, maybe others? include rice hulls in the ingredients. That is not just filler, but approximates this role for gut transit of food. But for species like Yellowfoots, Manouria, perhaps Indotestudo's, forest Kinixy's, it is not enough.

Will
 

Yvonne G

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Thanks for that insight, Will. I do include the skin and seeds when I feed them things like bell peppers, cantaloupe, etc. But that's not very often. Most of what I feed them isn't fruit. Right now I have some real ripe papaya. Those seeds are round, but all I do is cut them into 4ths for a biting edge and feed seeds and all.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this young tortoise may be wild caught, if that has anything to do with a seed-eating memory.
 

mightymizz

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Regarding seeds, Any thoughts about when seeds are too big for a particular animal and shouldnt be included?

I have an 8.5 inch Redfoot, and some yearlings roughly 3.5 inches.

Could/Should my 8.5 inch tort be offered some fresh pumpkin seeds (average sized ones)?

Can the 3.5 inch ones be allowed to eat bell pepper seeds?

I have tried asking these general seed to size question before, but have never gotten any insight, hence I have not been offering watermelon with seeds, cataloupe seeds, pumpkin seeds, etc.
 

Yvonne G

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You have to sort of eye-ball it and judge if the seeds in the particular fruit you want to feed look small enough to be able to fit through your tortoise's "pipes."



I had what I think might be a good idea, Will:

I will buy a canteloupe, scoop out the seed area, including all the juices in that area and mix a bunch of "Critical Care" in with it. Critical Care is a powder of ground up grasses and weeds. Or do they need the veins and bulk of the grasses and weeds before being ground up?
 

mightymizz

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Thing issue with judging it, is that I have no clue what their internal system is like. Especially regarding the twists and turns and compaction issues with sand (very small) and at times I've read about coco coir problems too.

I do want to say I appreciate you showing this picture and sharing your journey with this tort...It will be a learning lesson for all.
 
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