Problems with soaking

[Tom]

I still believe it is not a good thing to have a fragile baby poop 3 or 4 times a day. It is also my personal experience that tortoises drink in the first 10 or so minutes of the soaking. My operation here is a small one, nothing on the scope of what you have accomplished...

Just friendly discussion here. To anyone reading, Maggie is a friend and her and I can disagree and talk about it without hating each other.

Maggie, I quoted the above as a discussion point. "I still believe..." Why? Why do you still believe that? Have you tried it multiple ways and compared? Have you ever soaked babies for 6-8 hours a day and seen the results? Have you soaked daily for more than 10 minutes and encountered failure to thrive? What do you say to someone like me who soaks babies of all species for 40-60 minutes a day, feeds mostly weeds, leaves and grasses, and has 100% success with babies thriving, growing, reaching adulthood, and reproducing? Am I just lucky?

I base my assertions off of decades of doing all these things multiple ways. I've done the extremes in both directions and seen the results. I don't base my assertions on my feelings, I base them on real world results after much trial and error over many years.

If you are saying that soaking babies of any tortoise species for an hour a day is doing harm because of how much they poop, then you are going to have to explain why ALL of my babies survive and thrive and grow. Can they survive with less? Yes. Absolutely. Is less better for them? My results say no. Are there many other ways to do it that will result in a live tortoise? Of course! Survival is not my goal. I want them to thrive, and the methods I recommend are what I have found to make them thrive more than any of the other methods I've tried with side-by-side comparisons.

 

[Yvonne G]

Where Maggie and I are coming from is NOT daily soaks. What we're saying is about prolonged soaks. Leaving a HEALTHY tortoise in the water for longer than fifteen or twenty minutes a day is not necessary and causes them to poop more than they should. It's only obvious and common sense that if the tortoise has already pooped twice and is now pooping out partially digested food, it's past time to get him out.

 

[Tom]

Where Maggie and I are coming from is NOT daily soaks. What we're saying is about prolonged soaks. Leaving a HEALTHY tortoise in the water for longer than fifteen or twenty minutes a day is not necessary and causes them to poop more than they should. It's only obvious and common sense that if the tortoise has already pooped twice and is now pooping out partially digested food, it's past time to get him out.

I don't count the number of poops, and ALL tortoise poop is partially digested food if you put it in water and mix it around.

My premise here is that if this practice were bad, doing harm, or depriving the tortoise of nutrition in any way, then the hundreds of tortoises I've been doing this to for the last 10 years would clearly show some sign of a problem, wouldn't they? Instead, we see the opposite. They all thrive.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Do tortoises always poop when soaked? Mine doesn't. Just wondering, why do they poop so much when soaked? I figured too much soaking shouldn't hurt, but I soak my tort no more 30 min a day (twice 15 min). Maybe mines not eating enough, but pooping 4 times a day sounds a bit... unhealthy. I generally only see him poop once a day.

 

[Blackdog1714]

I get poop most times during soak but not always. My Russian enjoys pooping in his soak and my Leopard kinda only lets it happen occassionally. NOw my Leopard will regularly use the pool (large clay saucer) and poop will be found there. Just my humble observations-Soaking is good and some really enjoy!

 

[Maggie3fan]

I don't count the number of poops, and ALL tortoise poop is partially digested food if you put it in water and mix it around.

My premise here is that if this practice were bad, doing harm, or depriving the tortoise of nutrition in any way, then the hundreds of tortoises I've been doing this to for the last 10 years would clearly show some sign of a problem, wouldn't they? Instead, we see the opposite. They all thrive.

But do you soak them daily for long hours as you first described? How do you know that any "failure to thrive syndrome" death isn't because the hatchling didn't get the proper nutrition from his feces?

then the hundreds of tortoises I've been doing this to for the last 10 years would clearly show some sign of a problem, wouldn't they? Instead, we see the opposite. They all thrive.

Frankly I'm thinking that yes, as well as being a good keeper, you are damned lucky nothing died.
I will agree to disagree and step out of this conversation.....

 

[Tom]

But do you soak them daily for long hours as you first described? How do you know that any "failure to thrive syndrome" death isn't because the hatchling didn't get the proper nutrition from his feces?

then the hundreds of tortoises I've been doing this to for the last 10 years would clearly show some sign of a problem, wouldn't they? Instead, we see the opposite. They all thrive.

Frankly I'm thinking that yes, as well as being a good keeper, you are damned lucky nothing died.
I will agree to disagree and step out of this conversation.....

Yes. I soak ALL babies daily for anywhere from 40-60 minutes. Sometimes I get busy doing other things around the ranch and forget them for 90-120 minutes. Other times, if I'm in a hurry, they might only soak for 30 minutes.

I have had ZERO failure to thrive deaths. Not one. Ever. That only happens when people don't soak enough.

I don't have a problem with you or Yvonne or anyone saying they prefer to soak for only 10-20 minutes a day. I don't think that will do any harm. What I have a problem with is anyone saying that soaking them longer that 20 minutes a day will do harm, or cause them to not digest their food, or any other such inaccurate statements. The facts, thousands of cases, and mountains of evidence clearly demonstrate otherwise.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Soaking can and often does lead to pooping, but many times they don't poop when they soak. I know here we are talking about Russians, however...

Many species seems to find security while sitting in water.
Many species drink, poop, and want to get on with their day, getting out of the water.
I have found all babies just don't get it, soaking seems to be something they learn by doing, and keep the lesson as they grow and will soak themselves as the grow larger/older.
Many individuals will carefully dip their face in the clean water, drink, poop onto the substrate, and never 'soak', but they certainly drink and poop as an event.

Even though water is not consider a 'nutrient' like proteins, vitamins, etc. It is the most ESSENTIAL consumed thing.

Many tortoises seem to open their cloacal (a$$hole) sphincter and rinse themselves out. Males will wash their genitals by expressing them and retracting them. So, beyond drinking a soak can be a good thing.

I use lots and lots of one and half gallon plastic milk jugs. I fill them and place them in the enclosure's warn/hot end, or directly on or below the heating device in the enclosure. When I soak, I use the soaking dish in the enclosure, use that enclosure temp water, and then refill the jug and rinse the soaking tub, and all put back in the enclosure.

This keeps the potential for cross contamination to a minimum. If the tortoise will fit, I use those little black trays that mushrooms come in, when old or cracked, into recycling. Make all this stuff easy to do. It's not rocket surgery.

As for tortoises pooping food they are not done with yet, that's a new one on me. You should see indigestible stuff in their poop as a matter of good high fiber.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

In that case, why do they poop food that they are “not ready” to poop?

 

[Viola B]

Everyone, thank you for this back and forth discussion. I am glad we are all friends with different ideas.

 

[Blackdog1714]

I just love how worked up over poop we can get! It is so funny when someone new posts the photo of some pooh and says sorry or excuse me. So little do they know!

 

[Maggie3fan]

Tortoise people are poopy people AND WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO ADMIT IT!

 

[Tom]

In that case, why do they poop food that they are “not ready” to poop?

They don't. That has been the crux of this discussion. A lot of the old tortoise literature stated this was a problem, but it isn't. We've proven it thousands of times over. Many of mine don't poop in their soak water at all on a given day. Others poop a lot. All of them thrive, grow, and keep on eating.

 

[Tony the Tort42]

Oh ok. Also, to the people that stated that too much soaking is bad, my baby soaks himself as his water is fairly warm (85 degrees). He soaks himself longer than 20 min some days...

 

[Tom]

Oh ok. Also, to the people that stated that too much soaking is bad, my baby soaks himself as his water is fairly warm (85 degrees). He soaks himself longer than 20 min some days...

Many tortoises do this in the wild too. Sulcatas sit and romp around in the marshes that form in the rainy season. Galops will sit in puddles literally for days.