PLEASE HELP: closed eyes, weak, not eating

[lovebugaphid]

What are you using to measure temp/humidity inside the enclosure?
Digital reader or mechanical dial?
Mechanical dials can be very inaccurate.

Dual Digital thermo/humidistat, $15 at home depot.
Infrared gun $30. This allows you to know exact torts temp. You will be able to compare torts temp. while its active outside to what its like inside.
How high of the ground is the MVB? Too low will drive the tort to hide. Too high will result in low UVB levels. MVBs are known to be defective or fail prematurely. Its a good idea to invest into UVB meter 6.2 or 6.5 in cold climate where artificial UVB is needed much of the year, to measure the UVB output of the bulbs.

Can you post a photo of habitat?

seeing that the difference in the tort's behavior from inside to outside is a COMPLETE change, it's got to be my enclosure set up. I'm just not sure what it is.

our set up is in a large exo terra terrarium low. we have two digital thermometers, one of those dual temp/humidity dial things, and a infrared temp gun. what is a digital thermo/humidistat? would u mind sending me a link pls? we also have a 100 watt UVA/UVB bulb (NOT coiled) that we keep on during daylight hours & turn off at night. it sits about 12 inches above the substrate. our substrate is a mix of cypress mulch & organic soil. we have a 150 watt CHE as well. we keep temps approximately between 80F-90F with a basking area around 104F. we also have a reptifogger and have slowly been increasing humidity back up to 80%. we have water & cuttlebone available at all times & offer the little guy tortoise grass pellets, mazuri, wheatgrass, & spring mix, but I haven't seen him/her eat any of it. I think that's it? pls let me know i missed something

 

[mikeh]

Your set up looks good for most part, but it looks like the tort does not like either temperature, humidity or lighting. I would experiment with parameters up and down few degrees to see how the tort response.

Few pointers to help you tweak the set up. I believe it was already mentioned that 100w MVB and 150w che at 12" is too close, no matter what the thermometer says. UVB levels at 12" are too high for functioning 100w mvb, so is the heat. The radiant heat from 150watt che at 12" may be too intense. I would bring both up to 18-20". The che should be set up with THERMOSTAT, set 80F on the cool end.

What readings do you get when you spot check torts temp. with the temp gun. (Inside, outdoors, at night)? The outdoor reading while active should indicate animals day time preference.

Find a dark colored rock similar in shape and size to your tort, let it stabilize to room temp then place it directly under UVB light. Check it with temp gun 30 minutes later...What is the reading? Aim for 95-97F and see how the hatchling responds. 106F you are getting with the probe may be too high, because the shell is couple inches higher then the probe and carapace conducts heat more then plastic probe. Again, temp gun. Do the same with CHE.



The humidity mechanical gauge is garbage. I know you have digital, but a different thermometer, just in case. This one also has a digital humidity monitor. Many people it.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Di...perature-Comfort-Monitor-00619HDSB/202260980/

So play with some parameters. Temp gun should be used every time you are with the tortoise so you get a sense what temps trigger what behavior. When taking the tort outside it gets checked with temp gun often till you are comfortable with max temp the tort reaches. For example deck surface like your tort is on will get to 105F on sunny 65F calm day. Put a tort on it and it will get to 105F as well and higher as the shell conducts heat better then wood. 105F hot hatchling may appear to be active and running around but in reality may be panicking to find shade. If the tort is walking around but stops here and there to sniff/bite things its comfortable. If its just running without stopping, its important to recognize the tort may be too hot. From observing my tort I can tell the tort (yearling) is comfortable up to 92-94F shell temp, while in the direct sun. After few minutes of being over 95-96F it starts to look and spend few minutes in shade before returning to sun. A big deck like yours with shade far away may be something of a caution. I have seen my 6 month old to start overheat in 25 minutes under those exact conditions, cool sunny day with hot deck, panicking running in circles and by the wall looking for shade. Using a temp gun will teach you your torts preferred temps. Take some readings inside/outside with behavior and report back so we can figure it out
.

 

[ascott]

All good stuff to work with....I do have to mention again, when a tortoise is outdoors they will act totally different than when they are indoors...if the tort is a baby then they will act especially "active"--which may actually be you seeing them instinctually trying to stay in motion and looking for someplace to tuck into (you see, they have a deep seeded desire to remain out of sight so as not to be eaten)....

 

[lovebugaphid]

Your set up looks good for most part, but it looks like the tort does not like either temperature, humidity or lighting. I would experiment with parameters up and down few degrees to see how the tort response.

Few pointers to help you tweak the set up. I believe it was already mentioned that 100w MVB and 150w che at 12" is too close, no matter what the thermometer says. UVB levels at 12" are too high for functioning 100w mvb, so is the heat. The radiant heat from 150watt che at 12" may be too intense. I would bring both up to 18-20". The che should be set up with THERMOSTAT, set 80F on the cool end.

What readings do you get when you spot check torts temp. with the temp gun. (Inside, outdoors, at night)? The outdoor reading while active should indicate animals day time preference.

Find a dark colored rock similar in shape and size to your tort, let it stabilize to room temp then place it directly under UVB light. Check it with temp gun 30 minutes later...What is the reading? Aim for 95-97F and see how the hatchling responds. 106F you are getting with the probe may be too high, because the shell is couple inches higher then the probe and carapace conducts heat more then plastic probe. Again, temp gun. Do the same with CHE.



The humidity mechanical gauge is garbage. I know you have digital, but a different thermometer, just in case. This one also has a digital humidity monitor. Many people it.

http://m.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Di...perature-Comfort-Monitor-00619HDSB/202260980/

So play with some parameters. Temp gun should be used every time you are with the tortoise so you get a sense what temps trigger what behavior. When taking the tort outside it gets checked with temp gun often till you are comfortable with max temp the tort reaches. For example deck surface like your tort is on will get to 105F on sunny 65F calm day. Put a tort on it and it will get to 105F as well and higher as the shell conducts heat better then wood. 105F hot hatchling may appear to be active and running around but in reality may be panicking to find shade. If the tort is walking around but stops here and there to sniff/bite things its comfortable. If its just running without stopping, its important to recognize the tort may be too hot. From observing my tort I can tell the tort (yearling) is comfortable up to 92-94F shell temp, while in the direct sun. After few minutes of being over 95-96F it starts to look and spend few minutes in shade before returning to sun. A big deck like yours with shade far away may be something of a caution. I have seen my 6 month old to start overheat in 25 minutes under those exact conditions, cool sunny day with hot deck, panicking running in circles and by the wall looking for shade. Using a temp gun will teach you your torts preferred temps. Take some readings inside/outside with behavior and report back so we can figure it out
.

ah, thank you thank you for your help. so many good points I've overlooked. this is why I love tortoise forum. I'll definitely raise the CHE & MVB & keep tabs on my temperatures. I'll update soon.

 

[Laura]

if he is that good outside.. something inside is not right, or good...
I would make him a nice secure outside area.. so as not to stress him out everytime you place outside in a new place.

 

[Katybug]

How is your baby doing??

 

[lovebugaphid]

Update: not much has changed unfortunately. On Tuesday it will be one month since we've had our little guy. Still not eating or drinking much (if anything)from what I've seen. Eyes remain closed most of the time except for when we get outside.

We've continued the many & frequent warm water, calcium, baby food & pedialyte soaks. Also we have been feeding by dropper. I've tried vetericyn eye solution & gel for about a week. It has helped but the tort still keeps it's eyes **** in the enclosure. We were able to get some Terramycin yesterday after 3 weeks of waiting. & it seems to be helping A LOT. Eyes are more open today.

I redid the enclosure & raised the che & mvb to 18" above the substrate. Temps steady between

 

[lovebugaphid]

82F-94F humidity above 80%



Plastron is very soft and I noticed yesterday it looks almost see-through/bruised. Scutes look sunken or depressed? Almost like the growth lines are raised.

 

[Yvonne G]

Oh man...I'm so sorry. This is a very sick little baby, and I'm sorry to say it, but I really don't think he's going to make it. I don't remember if you've said you have a good tortoise vet? If possible, maybe you can get the vet to give the baby calcium injection.

The first thing that struck me about your set-up is that there is so much light. Is there any dark place for him to hide? He needs the d3 to make the calcium work, but it just seems so very, very bright for a sick little baby.

 

[lovebugaphid]

& We haven't been able to go outside much due to crappy weather :/

 

[lovebugaphid]

@Yvonne G yeah, I don't think this little one is going to make it either unfortunately. It's been sick for as long as we've had it. For now it seems we're just waiting :/ we do not have a tortoise vet out here unfortunately. There is ONE place that treats reptiles but I've been told their knowledge on tortoises is very limited.

I think the picture makes the enclosure look brighter than it actually is. But I did put in a humid hide, log hide, fake plants & a driftwood piece for some hiding areas.

 

[mikeh]

I agree with Yvonne. Only quick action of calcium injection may possibly save it at this stage if its not too late already.

 

[Laura]

the lights with the screen, is blocking all the 'good light'.. and I think Way too much humidty for the small space...

 

[lovebugaphid]

@Laura lights with the screen? If you're referring to the top of the enclosure we removed that when I redid the enclosure a little over a week ago and only have the foil as a cover. As for the humidity we've been playing around with it to see if there's any change, but so far nothing. We'll continue to tweak things to see if anything helps. Thank you

 

[Katybug]

Gosh so sorry about your baby. You have obviously done all you can plus more. Maybe its time to let the little thing rest... Best wishes

 

[lovebugaphid]

Update:
Our little one is still here. Tweaked the enclosure by getting a smaller dome for the light fixture so it's not as bright. Have been applying Terramycin and it has worked wonders! Little guy's eyes are open now & he/she moves around a bit. Still hasn't been eating much at all & shell is very very soft we have been continuing soaks & have added a daily calcium soak. It's getting warmer so we let the little one out more & it loves the sunshine. Today the little one ate dandelion, cat grass, radicchio & some strawberry. Not a whole lot but it's something!

 

[dmmj]

If the shell is going soft it is very sick, and needs immediate help most likely calcium injections. I don't think it was anything you did wrong, sounds like a failure to thrive or a bad started one. The soft shell is the most immediate and grave concern. I will be hoping for good news and send good thoughts but time is a major issue.

 

[lovebugaphid]

Yes I agree. A trip to the vet is in order this week. Thank you all for your help.

 

[ascott]

As long as there is breath in the tort there is just as good a chance to make it.....sometimes the little ones have to ride on our will until theirs comes back.....just saying.

 

[Katybug]

oh I'm so glad your baby is doing better!
she looks so much better than in the last pictures you posted. my leo is starting to not eat now... poor little guys!