Planning new home for a cherryhead

[a5fung]

Hi All,

I joined the forum 6 years ago and finally getting around to really get my tortoise (hopefully soon-ish). I've decided to get a redfoot/cherryhead and I've lurked around in the forum and other places gathering info.

I plan to get a baby cherryhead and keep him indoors for the first year or so. I live in the pacific northwest so weather is cool and wet most of the year. I have lots of room in my yard so after the first year or so I should be able to move him outdoors for part of the year.

Right now, I'm planning his indoor space. I've looked at many options, from a aquarium/terrarium to building my own closed chamber / tort table. I've considered the cheaper DIY options but after reading many threads on this, I'd say I'm okay with spending some extra money instead of building my own due to lack of skills/tools. Even though I'll only keep him in this enclosure while he's small, I still want it to be decent sized and I want it to be aesthetically pleasing, so I was leaning towards a larger aquarium (55-75 gallons), but then I came across animal plastics and really liked it (http://www.apcages.com/home/) . The pic below is what it looks like and I think it can make a good enclosure for the baby cherryhead. The size is 48" x 24" x 12" and I'll add a 20" x 12" screen on top for the lighting and CHE. I've read that baby cherryheads need high humidity (80%+) and this closed chamber should be able to achieve it. It costs about $200 shipped and I'm ok with it.

Like I mentioned above, I plan to put a basking light and a CHE on top of the screen on one side. I can also add a UVB fluorescent fixture inside if necessary. I've read some discussions around the need for UVB on this forum and some say it's not required (i.e. turtletary care sheet). For this enclosure, I can actually add extra screens on top if necessary, i.e. a 8" round screen for another fixture, but I was thinking a 20" x 12" screen on one side is enough, thoughts? What wattage of light/CHE would be idea for an enclosure of this size to achieve the necessary temp for cherryheads (I believe it should be 80F+)?.

Other than the enclosure, I plan to add the usual elements: plants, terracotta saucer, hide, etc. For substrate, after reading many different combos people here use, I'm thinking of reptibark/cypress mulch at the bottom layer, coco coir on top the sphagnum moss in the hide and other places on top.

So far, I haven't gotten anything yet. I've been reading and researching and looking at different options. I plan to start with the enclosure, but since I need to buy it online I want to make sure I'm on the right track before spending the money.

Any suggestions and comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Alvin

 

[Anyfoot]

Hi Alvin. Sounds like you have done a lot of research.
A 100watt CHE should be fine for that size enclosure.
I personally wouldn't bother with a basking light instead put a uvb strip light in at one end so you get a dark end too. I hear what your saying about Terry regarding uvb and intend on proving it out in the future. But seen as it's your first tort you don't want any potential problems, no harm in putting a uvb in there, just provide a darker end too, only use a 5.0uvb. Not a 10.0uvb. They don't like it too bright as youngsters.
Not sure I'm understanding your substrate method correctly. I would put a 2 to 3" layer of coir and then in let's say half the enclosure a layer of Cyprus mulch or orchid bark. This way your tort as the option of getting off the coir to dry out. Temps ideally tapering 80f to 86f. Put a hide at each end for options with a bit of spagnhum moss. I've basically set up like this and my tort seems to use the entire enclosure at one time or another.
It's just one of many ways to do it.
Good luck.

 

[a5fung]

Thanks for the suggestions, Anyfoot!

Sorry, the sentence on substrate was poorly proofread. What I meant was a bottom layer of bark/mulch and a layer of coco coir on top (I stole this idea from @Pearly). However, I like your idea of having a space for just bark and a space for coir so the tort has options, also it'll help me learn what s/he likes and adjust accordingly.

 

[8james8]

Responded to your message. Definitely go with an AP enclosure if you have the funds for a good indoor enclosure. Also forgot to mention, you can have them install and mount a light inside to take care of your USB needs.

I mounted my own in each. MVB light and CHE sit atop the cut out. And the other side has my HO uvb light.

If you need any help let me know bud

 

[Alexio]

Hi All,

I joined the forum 6 years ago and finally getting around to really get my tortoise (hopefully soon-ish). I've decided to get a redfoot/cherryhead and I've lurked around in the forum and other places gathering info.

I plan to get a baby cherryhead and keep him indoors for the first year or so. I live in the pacific northwest so weather is cool and wet most of the year. I have lots of room in my yard so after the first year or so I should be able to move him outdoors for part of the year.

Right now, I'm planning his indoor space. I've looked at many options, from a aquarium/terrarium to building my own closed chamber / tort table. I've considered the cheaper DIY options but after reading many threads on this, I'd say I'm okay with spending some extra money instead of building my own due to lack of skills/tools. Even though I'll only keep him in this enclosure while he's small, I still want it to be decent sized and I want it to be aesthetically pleasing, so I was leaning towards a larger aquarium (55-75 gallons), but then I came across animal plastics and really liked it (http://www.apcages.com/home/) . The pic below is what it looks like and I think it can make a good enclosure for the baby cherryhead. The size is 48" x 24" x 12" and I'll add a 20" x 12" screen on top for the lighting and CHE. I've read that baby cherryheads need high humidity (80%+) and this closed chamber should be able to achieve it. It costs about $200 shipped and I'm ok with it.

Like I mentioned above, I plan to put a basking light and a CHE on top of the screen on one side. I can also add a UVB fluorescent fixture inside if necessary. I've read some discussions around the need for UVB on this forum and some say it's not required (i.e. turtletary care sheet). For this enclosure, I can actually add extra screens on top if necessary, i.e. a 8" round screen for another fixture, but I was thinking a 20" x 12" screen on one side is enough, thoughts? What wattage of light/CHE would be idea for an enclosure of this size to achieve the necessary temp for cherryheads (I believe it should be 80F+)?.

Other than the enclosure, I plan to add the usual elements: plants, terracotta saucer, hide, etc. For substrate, after reading many different combos people here use, I'm thinking of reptibark/cypress mulch at the bottom layer, coco coir on top the sphagnum moss in the hide and other places on top.

So far, I haven't gotten anything yet. I've been reading and researching and looking at different options. I plan to start with the enclosure, but since I need to buy it online I want to make sure I'm on the right track before spending the money.

Any suggestions and comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Alvin

A few questions, one how long do you hope to be using this enclosure for?
Second are you going to buy it with an open screen top instead of the solid top? Because your going to have a nightmare of a time with humidity with a 12" high enclosure with a screen top. At that point what's the difference between a 40 gallon breeder?

 

[a5fung]

A few questions, one how long do you hope to be using this enclosure for?
Second are you going to buy it with an open screen top instead of the solid top? Because your going to have a nightmare of a time with humidity with a 12" high enclosure with a screen top. At that point what's the difference between a 40 gallon breeder?

I'll use until he gets bigger, exactly for how long I'm not sure, I'm guessing 1-2yrs?

Yes, I'll have a 20" x 12" open screen on top for the CHE. From what James (above, he also has a T8) said, he's able to keep humidity high with the screen top. The open screen is small compared to the size of the enclosure, it should be able to keep humidity better than a 40 gallon tank. If it becomes a problem, I can cover it with Reflectix (Another idea from @Pearly). I like this better than a aquarium since it has much more floor space and sliding screen in front without being too expensive.

 

[a5fung]

Responded to your message. Definitely go with an AP enclosure if you have the funds for a good indoor enclosure. Also forgot to mention, you can have them install and mount a light inside to take care of your USB needs.

I mounted my own in each. MVB light and CHE sit atop the cut out. And the other side has my HO uvb light.

If you need any help let me know bud

Thanks for the answers!

 

[Pearly]

Hey Alvin, Referring to your lighting issues, I have a long fluorescent UVB tube, CHE, and incandescent light and always keep red and black bulbs handy for extra heat when needed. The light that I have is more for yhe plants than for the babies. They don't like it to bright and never used to see them bask until at some point had to put in red bulb when my white went out and noticed both would come sit under it. I got an extra dome with 65 watt red bulb for the summer and 100 watt for the winter just to give them basking spot. They now sit under that red bulb ever day. I put their food directly underneath and almost always sit on their food stone for about 20-30 min after they eat. I consider that their basking. They never sit in bright light of any kind. If anything, they run away from bright areas, always seeking shade. I have never used MVB, didn't think I needed one. As for the "substrate layering", mine if more of a living terrarium ecosystem concept. I will most likely keep it even after the babies "bedroom" moves out completely from it. May get some small reptilian resident for it for my twin boys to enjoy. Now that I know the basics of their care and have a good set up, keeping a small animal is not hard. I layered substrate for drainage and good biochemistry (air flow, beneficial bacteria, fungi, bugs etc). At one point I redid everything. Kept most of the existing substrate (didn't want for all the bio-filter to have to start building from the beginning) adding big bag of activated charcoal as the very bottom layer. Then the bark (1.5-2 inch layer) then coir with pockets of soil from my garden for the plants. Lately my babies have been bulldozing all the plants and everything I put in there so it won't be pretty for a while. I don't use sheet moss so much anymore because they tear it up. I try to keep things fairly clean by flat smooth rocks around the food and water dish and and refresh reptibark in other areas as needed. On side note, your patience and self discipline are commendable! All this time on the for and no tort??!!!! Wow! We have been doing what most of us have never done and Lord knows, we should have

 

[a5fung]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I'll order the enclosure soon, it'll take 4 weeks to ship so I'll spend the time gathering all the other items. I'll also shop around for my first tort! (Any vendor suggestions are welcome, I like what I see at tortoise cove so far.)

 

[Pearly]

There are some AWESOME RF breeders here. I haven't really looked into that so not sure WHO and WHAT but i wonder if you can pull up some info through your SEARCH feature on this site by typing in "cherryhead breeding" or something like that. I know a few that have great reputation here but struggle with everyone's user names. I got mine from Florida and there are couple of breeders from there on TFO but there are others in other places. Do you want a little baby tort or little older?

 

[a5fung]

Yes, I've found a few cherryhead breeders from TFO just by searching. These are all on my shortlist - tortoise cove, tortoise supply, and tortoise yard. I'm leaning towards a younger tort, that way I can maximize the time I get to keep him indoors while I plan for an outdoor space in a year or two.

 

[MysticCaribou]

Yes, I've found a few cherryhead breeders from TFO just by searching. These are all on my shortlist - tortoise cove, tortoise supply, and tortoise yard. I'm leaning towards a younger tort, that way I can maximize the time I get to keep him indoors while I plan for an outdoor space in a year or two.

I highly recommend Tortoise Yard. I have one of hers and she is thriving. I have a Cherryhead that is doing really well.

 

[allegraf]

I highly recommend Tortoise Yard. I have one of hers and she is thriving. I have a Cherryhead that is doing really well.

I agree, Vicky Hale is a lovely lady who really cares about her torts! Can't go wrong with tortoise yard. Where are you located? I can't give any advice about indoor enclosures but if you are in the north east us, @terryo and @Redstrike can help.

 

[a5fung]

I highly recommend Tortoise Yard. I have one of hers and she is thriving. I have a Cherryhead that is doing really well.

I agree, Vicky Hale is a lovely lady who really cares about her torts! Can't go wrong with tortoise yard. Where are you located? I can't give any advice about indoor enclosures but if you are in the north east us, @terryo and @Redstrike can help.

I live in Washington State, so pacific north west weather, i.e. rainy during fall/winter months.

I ended up going with an Animal Plastic enclosure, the one I mentioned in the start of the thread. It should be here in a couple weeks, I have everything else ready (lighting, heating, substrate, plants, dish, rocks, etc.). I've spoke with some of the breeders on TFO (including Vicki, but I think she's sold out), and I'll likely be getting one from Jeff at Tortoise Cove .

I'll share pics of enclosure when I have everything set up so I can hear any feedback from you all.

Thanks!

 

[Redstrike]

I agree, Vicky Hale is a lovely lady who really cares about her torts! Can't go wrong with tortoise yard. Where are you located? I can't give any advice about indoor enclosures but if you are in the north east us, @terryo and @Redstrike can help.

If you're in the Pacific Northwest you have a temperate rainforest setting. Humidity shouldn't be a problem in outdoor conditions but I can't speak for your indoor climate. I will say it seems you've done your research and your enclosure is very adequate for a hatchling. Keep humidity at 70% and greater, cool side at 80 and warm at 85 (basking spot at 95-100), and provide outdoor time as much as possible and you should be good.

You mentioned some great breeders previously. All of mine came from allegraf. She's professional, punctual, upfront, and extremely kind. You can't go wrong with any of the wonderful breeders previously mentioned, but my experience with Allegra has been amazing. I'm so happy with my torts from her I just had to say something! I feel she produces some of the best looking cherryheads out there. You might want to inquire with her if availability is limited with others?

Okay, enough from this clown. Good luck! Feel free to contact me if you need anymore input/assistance.

 

[allegraf]

If you're in the Pacific Northwest you have a temperate rainforest setting. Humidity shouldn't be a problem in outdoor conditions but I can't speak for your indoor climate. I will say it seems you've done your research and your enclosure is very adequate for a hatchling. Keep humidity at 70% and greater, cool side at 80 and warm at 85 (basking spot at 95-100), and provide outdoor time as much as possible and you should be good.

You mentioned some great breeders previously. All of mine came from allegraf. She's professional, punctual, upfront, and extremely kind. You can't go wrong with any of the wonderful breeders previously mentioned, but my experience with Allegra has been amazing. I'm so happy with my torts from her I just had to say something! I feel she produces some of the best looking cherryheads out there. You might want to inquire with her if availability is limited with others?

Okay, enough from this clown. Good luck! Feel free to contact me if you need anymore input/assistance.

You are too kind, Chris! I'm just happy yours are with you!

 

[terryo]

I have to agree with Chris. Allegra's are some of the best you'll see from any breeder. Every time I see some of her babies, I'm so tempted. I raised both of mine in glass aquariums from the time they were 3 months old. I started out with a 40 gal. breeder and ended up with a 150 gal. tank for one 6 year old. I put a screen top on with a long 5.0 UVB and a 60 wt. heat emitter on the 40 gal tank and for the 150 I used the screen top with two 100 CHE, one on each side and the 10.0 UVB across the middle. Plants and a large enough water dish for them to be able to get in and soak, a flat piece of slate for eating on, and a natural wood hide for the smaller tank and plenty of plants for keeping in the humidity. They were outside in a tortoise garden all Summer. I have plenty of pictures if you need to see any of mine. Good luck.

 

[a5fung]

Finally got my enclosure set up! I'll be swapping the current fluorescent with a 15W T8 uvb bulb tomorrow. I have a 100W CHE above connected to a thermostat, set to 85F. The thermostat probe is the black wire, ending on the right side of enclosure by the half log hide (I'm thinking this will be the cool side). I have a wireless hygrometer/thermometer also by the hide to the right. I'll probably need another one on the left side, but for now I'll check regularly with thermo-gun. I've just turned the CHE on so the temp is not the final temp.

In case you haven't notice, there's no tortoise yet, I'll need to wait for them. I might be housing two cherryheads in here .

Let me know what you think!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

since you asked us what we think -

Turn the 'strip-light' 90 degrees to point to one end - at least half of the enclosure should be dark.

There is no such thing as a "cool-side" and "warm-side"... these are NOT basking herbivores.. the entire enclosure should be mid to high 80's F.

Anytime someone states they have redfoots that bask .. it's because there's most likely are under the light to thermo-regulate NOT to acquire UVB like herbivores do! This principle is terribly confused and confusing... because of the misunderstanding of how tortoises acquire their needed vitamin D3.

NOTE: I just said ALL tortoises need vitamin D3 .. they don't all acquire it the same way!

 

[a5fung]

Thanks for the advice, I'll move the strip light to one side.

I've read about red-foots needing mid 80s F, I temporarily forgot when I mentioned the cool side. Thanks for reminding me! Either way, I put the probe to the far right, and the CHE is closer to the left side, so I want to make sure the place furthest from the CHE is also in the mid 80s. I'll be checking temp/humidity and adjusting over the next few days.