Pin Worms

[ekm5015]

My sully is about 5 months old and I have had him for about two months so far. When I got him he was about 49 grams. For the last two months he weighed in anywhere from 48-52 grams. The lack of weight gain had me concerned so I brought a fecal sample to the vet and it tested positive for pin worms.

The vet treated the little guy with panacur and he may need a second dose in a couple weeks if the worms are not gone. The vet also said that his shell was a little soft and gave me a Calcium Gluconate Injection to give him 2x's a day. It is given orally. I am assuming that the soft shell is from the lack of nutrition due to the worms...at least I hope so.

I am currently keeping him on coco coir. The vet said to use astro turf because it will not harbor bacteria and parasites such as the worms. This was the only thing I did not agree with.

Anyways, here is the question. I am going to clean out the enclosure of the old substrate, but what should I use now? Is there something that I should do until I am sure the worms are cleared up? Should I put him in a different enclosure for the time being with a different substrate?

Thanks...any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Yvonne G]

Generally speaking, you dose the first time with Panacur and it kills whatever parasites were alive and roaming around inside the tortoise, however, those parasites might have laid eggs while in there, so you dose again in 10 days to be sure to get all the parasites that hatch out from the time of the first dosage.

Astro turf would be ok to use for a month or so to be sure the little guy doesn't ingest more parasites. But after a month I would get some new cocoa coir and mix it with clean dirt from the garden. Or cypress mulch or orchid bark. You want something this is ok to be moistened.

I think its ok to put him back into his current enclosure, as long as you remove the old substrate and disinfect it good.

 

[Laura]

What are you feeding him? does he get outside in the sun? Soaking? Calcium?
good job taking him to the vet.
if he has a fave food that you know he will eat.. treating him with a second dose should be easy and you can literally feed it to him on his piece of fave food.
I did this with bananas, strawberries and tomatoes to get meds into mine.. worked great!

 

[ekm5015]

Thanks emysemys. Do you think 3 weeks is too long for the second dose? The vet said to check the fecal again in about 3 weeks and give another dose if needed.

What are you feeding him? does he get outside in the sun? Soaking? Calcium?

He gets a handful of a handmade salad consisting of dandelions, kale, collards, plantain, rose of sharon, clover, endive, broccoli rabe, romaine, turnip, mustard all choped up and fed daily. I was supplementing with calcium powder, but I thought that might be detering him from eating enough, so I backed off. Should I be supplementing calcium now that I have the calcium gluconate from the vet? I try to get him out in the sun as much as possible, but with work that ends up being only a couple times a week for a few hours. He also has a powersun for inside.

I also made a temporary enclosure for him until the worms get cleared up. I am using fresh eco earth in it. Anyone think I should keep him on something beside eco earth while he may still have worms in his poo?

One last question...how do torts get worms anyway? Is it something he ate? or just from hanging out in the grass in the backyard?

 

[Paige Lewis]

it is most likely he has eaten some weeds from the garden that had worm eggs on it, it is just one of those unavoidable things if they are eating weeds from the garden, it has happened to my tort and it is just good that you noticed something wasn't right.

 

[ekm5015]

Update and advice needed:

I weighed him this morning and he lost 5 grams since yesterday! He was 49 yesterday and 44 today. Is this normal after an application of panacur? I realize the panacur killed all the organisms inside, but 5 grams is a lot to lose in one day. Any advice? He was eating yesterday after the vet and this morning.

 

[Tom]

Glad you found the problem.

Don't worry too much about a few grams one way or the other. He could have lost that much weight just from one big poo.

Pinworm eggs are very small and light and they blow around on the wind. We used to have to treat the chimps constantly.

I'd cut out the broccoli and go easy on the turnip and mustard greens.

The amount of sun you are getting should be adequate. More would be better, but what you are doing should be enough.

 

[ekm5015]

Thanks Tom for all your advice. Hopefully he will be start gaining some weight now. I know broccoli isnt great, but I am feeding broccoli rabe (leaves) which I thought was ok.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Tort hatchlings can get worms from their mother's according to my vet. My tort had pinworms and coccidia his first year. Most vets will tell you substrate is bad--I disagree. Only in a "hospital" setting for a month or whatever like Yvonne described. make sure you do get that second dose after the 10 days or so because the med only kills the adults, not the worms in the eggs that hatch after the first dose. A few weeks after that second dose you want a repeat fecal test, and then one 3-4 months later, and then yearly. I wouldn't weigh more than weekly, and do it after a certain time (like after you feed and they poop for example) to try and get consistent readings. Broccoli rabe leaves in moderation is fine but they are a goitrogen so you want to limit that (same with items with oxalic acid). I'd try to add more items to the diet lower in oxalic acid, although you have great variety. Everything you listed except the romaine and turnip greens I think is either high in oxalic acid or a goitrogen. Some vets are also misinformed about how soft a hatchling's shell is because they are more accustomed to treating wild caught adult torts. There is a possibility your tort's shell isn't overly soft, just right for his age. The extra pure calcium shouldn't be harmful for short term use though. As long as he is eating I think you have no worries. With meds I like to make a burrito and fold up the medicine in the burrito to hand feed to make sure it doesn't get on his face instead of in his tummy!

 

[ekm5015]

The shell probably isnt that bad. The carapace is certainly hard when you tap on it, but the plastron squeezes in a little when squeezed. It can definatley use some hardening, but my main concern now is getting rid of the worms and getting him eating right.

The vet gave me a syringe to administer the liquid calcium which is proving to be extremely hard to administer. The vet told me to try and pry his mouth open with a paper clip, but I just cant do it without thinking I am hurting him. He just retreats into his shell when I try. I am not sure what kind of treats he likes because I havnt given him any yet. I am just trying to get him eating healthy.

Any tips on getting a syringe into a baby's mouth?
What are some food items I can add that are not so high in oxalic acid?

 

[Annieski]

My Vet gave me liquid calcium, with sryinges. The sryinges were ONLY to be used to draw -up the amount of liquid cal that was needed for each dosage. I would then apply the cal to whatever the most favorite greens were that Morty would ALWAYS eat[romaine was his fav and the leaves held the cal very well. I would give a small, plain piece first[by hand]--then dose the rest of the leaf and continue to feed by hand 'til gone. Only had to do this for the first few days--- then i would just put on with the normal food on plate[it was more for me to know it was getting into him]. You can also put the liquid cal into the soaking water, as it can be absorbed this way,also. He needs to stay in the water for al least 5 to 10 minutes. You may want to also add a cuttle bone to the enclosure[I always put Mortimer's close to his water dish---he liked when it would get a little squishy and I could always see his beak marks on the bone. I would have never been able to "pry-open" his mouth and the Vet said the way I did it was more than adequate and less stressful, for Me and Mortimer.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I too would just inject the meds. You can even use a strawberry or some other bad food since its just a tiny bit and a one time thing. I wouldn't ever tyr to pry my tort's mouth open...wow. If something like that had to be done I'd make the vet do it so my tort wouldn't remember me doing that to him lol. As long as the shell has not softened since you got him, only hardened, that is completely normal to have a good bit of give still at that age. Some lower oxalic acid greens are the healthy lettuces like spring mix (but no spinach), edible flowers. Someone else might be able to advise you about weeds as I'm not familiar with those unfortunately since I have to feed my tort from the grocery store. Feel free to start a new thread on that. For some reason even though tort's diets in the wild are very high in oxalic acid, with the same diet in captivity they would be prone to stones and such. Some people think it could be because of dehydration.