People should have to show their setup before being allowed to buy a tortoise

MichiganMan

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Reading all these posts the past month makes me realize how dumb many people are. I'm not trying to be rude but if you think you can buy a tort and just put it in a shoebox next to a window you have another thing coming. It takes lots of money and time. It's not like getting a dog or cat. So please people, if you're on here looking around thinking about buying a tortise just know it's a long time investment and constant care. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND BUILD YOUR ENCLOSURE FIRST. If you just want something to look at then buy a goldfish and put it in a bowl. Dont ruin the lives of these special creatures.
 

Tom

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I get your frustration, but it IS just like buying a dog or cat, when we are taking about buying a dog or cat and caring for it correctly.

Also, goldfish can live 100 years and reach 12+". They should never live in a bowl. That is completely cruel and inhumane. There can never be correct water conditions in a bowl.

No animal should be purchased, rescued, obtained, etc... without someone having the proper knowledge and equipment to care for it correctly. This includes dogs, cats, fish, tortoises and any other animal. I get the intent of your post, but as someone who has been working in the pet industry since the mid 80s, I can tell you there is no limit to the stupidity, and its not limited to tortoises. I can imagine @wellington nodding in agreement as she reads this. :). (She was in the pet industry for years too...)
 

ZEROPILOT

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A tortoise is certainly a poor choice for an impulse purchase!
We see new members with things like two soon to be fighting and huge Sulcata tortoises in a 10 gallon aquarium.
It's best to read and research about what species is best for your situation. Taking in the space you can provide. Your financial situation, time you can provide and location into consideration.
Then setting up EVERYTHING beforehand.
But, the truth is, many of us did not do that first.
I myself did not. There was no internet. Just old and outdated books at the local library.
It's not stupidity. Stupidity would be to not use this new wealth of free information.
Buying a tortoise on impulse, or even having one given to you is very common. So is a new keeper buying a pair because they want their tortoise to have a friend.
Thank God that we now have things like this forum.
It is very frustrating to see ignorant keepers harming their pets out of lack of knowledge.
Harming pets out of laziness or because correct care isn't convenient is beyond simply stupid.
 
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MichiganMan

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I agree @Tom. I was just simply stating that a dog just needs food water and taken outside. Same as a cat besides the outside part. In my opinion they are an easier animal to take care of. A tortoise requires the right lights humidity, space, etc. (Any reptile for that matter). A goldfish is a more hands off easy animal to take care of. I've never had a goldfish last more then 10 years but I bought them from a pet store and not a breeder. Can you buy a goldfish from a private breeder?o_O
 

MichiganMan

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@ZEROPILOT I'm not talking about the old school guys and gals that's been doing this before the internet. I'm talking about people in the present time buying something before they know what it entails. In today's day and age people have a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips and they dont use it til after the fact. Maybe a lot of what I'm reading are from impulse buys. I dont know. Just my two cents.
 

ZEROPILOT

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@ZEROPILOT I'm not talking about the old school guys and gals that's been doing this before the internet. I'm talking about people in the present time buying something before they know what it entails. In today's day and age people have a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips and they dont use it til after the fact. Maybe a lot of what I'm reading are from impulse buys. I dont know. Just my two cents.
Yes.
I agree.
Except that ignorance doesn't equal stupid.
I don't want anyone coming to the forum for information feeling like we've called them stupid. Lack of knowledge isn't stupid.
If after they've gotten good information and then ignored it.....
THAT is stupid.
We lose a lot of new members by calling them, or making them feel, stupid.
It's not beneficial.
Tortoise keeping is what I would consider an advanced level pet. At least in the beginning. It does get simpler as you know what to do and expect.
 
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enchilada

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Who’s gonna enforce it ? Internet police ?
Even you can make it into law and enforce it , it would be much easier to just get a enclosure picture from internet and show it
 

Tom

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@ZEROPILOT I'm not talking about the old school guys and gals that's been doing this before the internet. I'm talking about people in the present time buying something before they know what it entails. In today's day and age people have a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips and they dont use it til after the fact. Maybe a lot of what I'm reading are from impulse buys. I dont know. Just my two cents.
I see it too, and I agree with your general idea here.

I was just talking on the phone to a new member yesterday and she had done lots of reading and research. The problem with tortoises is that most of what you find is wrong. The people writing it and teaching don't know its wrong and don't think its wrong, and new people just don't know who to listen too.

Then you have jackass people who come here, ask why their tortoise hasn't eaten or pooped in three weeks, and reject the info because they don't like corners. I didn't misspell that. Corners. That poor tortoise is probably going to die this winter, and there is nothing I can do about it.
 

KSeaman

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There is LOTS of info out there. Unfortunately when you are new it's difficult to know who to listen to when everyone seems to be an authority compared to you. "I keep 4 male Russian tortoises together and I have never had a problem" yup I actually read that BEFORE I adopted my first Tortoise. All I ever really wanted was an Eqyptian Tortoise so I was gathering information and watching for one to become available. Then the Humane Society contacted me that there was a Box Turtle that needed a home, OK I will adopt her. Then a 22 year old badly neglected Russian Tortoise came in, HS asked if I could take hime. Then you guessed it another Russian shows up. Now I have One Box Turtle (Ru Paul), 2 Russian Tortoises (Knuckles & Crush), 2 Common Mud turtles and a Mississippi Map and NO Eqyptians in sight. Summer is great Ru Paul, Knuckles and Crush all have outdoor enclosures but it's pretty tight in the house in the winter with three indoor enclosures. Had I not fund this forum I would have been tempted to put at least the Russians together. Unfortunately, people don't know what they don't know and in some cases, you can't fix stupid. All we can do is try to get good info out there and keep spreading the knowledge, I will just keep directing people here.......Could this forum educate some of us on how to say, NO, I am full. Thanks everyone.
 

Rex1718

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I see your point. I am the dream crusher of my nephews. Every time they want a pet their dad calls me about the extent of care it needs. By the time we get off the phone I have already changed his mind on whatever they wanted to get. My nephews hate it lol.
I’m no expert, but have a lot of experience with exotic animals. I consider my turtles and tortoise some of the more demanding pets. As far as enclosure size, heat and such.
I have actually built an enclosure for my cousins Russian tortoise, only for him to stick her in a 40 gallon breeder, because it flowed better with their living room.
 

Blackdog1714

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All I know is that I am very glad I did my research first on TFO. Dialing in an enclosure with just plants is so easier on the mind!
 

Canadian Mojo

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I see your point. I am the dream crusher of my nephews. Every time they want a pet their dad calls me about the extent of care it needs. By the time we get off the phone I have already changed his mind on whatever they wanted to get. My nephews hate it lol.
I’m no expert, but have a lot of experience with exotic animals. I consider my turtles and tortoise some of the more demanding pets. As far as enclosure size, heat and such.
I have actually built an enclosure for my cousins Russian tortoise, only for him to stick her in a 40 gallon breeder, because it flowed better with their living room.
Did you smack him upside the head and tell him an animal isn't a decoration?
 

jsheffield

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People should prove positively that they're capable of caring for them before they can get a tortoise or buy a dog or cat or goldfish; they should also be checked out thoroughly before they are allowed to have children... but they're not.

It's a bummer, but an astonishing number of people are too ignorant (willfully or otherwise), selfish, and thoughtless to care for anything/anyone but themselves (and sometimes not even themselves).

Since I started posting pics of my tortoises on social media I've had a number of friends reach out with questions about getting tortoises of their own... most were dissuaded when I filled them in on the space/time/money requirements, a few are excited to invite a tortoise into their home under the right conditions, and at least one of the people I talked with didn't believe me and is planning on getting a Sulcata to live in their Boston apartment.

I don't think the problem is entirely fixable, but I think that with kind and patient and knowledgeable people like I found here on TFO, the truth about caring for these unique animals can slowly spread and they'll be better cared for over time.

Jamie
 

wellington

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People should prove positively that they're capable of caring for them before they can get a tortoise or buy a dog or cat or goldfish; they should also be checked out thoroughly before they are allowed to have children... but they're not.

It's a bummer, but an astonishing number of people are too ignorant (willfully or otherwise), selfish, and thoughtless to care for anything/anyone but themselves (and sometimes not even themselves).

Since I started posting pics of my tortoises on social media I've had a number of friends reach out with questions about getting tortoises of their own... most were dissuaded when I filled them in on the space/time/money requirements, a few are excited to invite a tortoise into their home under the right conditions, and at least one of the people I talked with didn't believe me and is planning on getting a Sulcata to live in their Boston apartment.

I don't think the problem is entirely fixable, but I think that with kind and patient and knowledgeable people like I found here on TFO, the truth about caring for these unique animals can slowly spread and they'll be better cared for over time.

Jamie
But who is the expert that gives the Nay or Yay? Many vets dont know the proper care of tortoises. We know pet stores know nothing. Pet rescues, at least the dog and cat ones, are quite iffy on their knowledge, at least the ones I have had some kind of experience with. As for members of the forum. Sure some are very knowledgeable but does that mean they know everything? Someone from say CA or FL has little to no idea about what I need to do in Illinois. It sounds good but not practical. Now each individual breeder/rescue could take that upon themselves and not sell or rehome to someone that isnt up to their standards. However, to do that you'd have to either only sell locally within driving distance like Yvonne does or be rich to fly to all the out of state buyers. Pictures can be fudged.
It's like anyone saying you shouldnt have a certain species if you live in the cold north but then turns around and sells their torts to people that live in the cold North. Some breeders just want to sell and some want to sell only to what they feel are safe/good homes. It really should be the sellers responsibility.
 

Blackdog1714

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Our power went out today for about an hour. My Bluetooth sensors showed a drop to only 76 degrees. Anything lower than 70 degrees and the generator would have been run. Not for me just for them!
 

Relic

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Boy, what a can of worms has been released here. I doubt anyone on here is fully confident that their "set-up" is absolutely 100% perfect. We always feel there is something that could be tweaked, modified, enlarged, rebuilt, re-imagined, etc. How many folks have said: "Well, the next time I build an enclosure, I plan on changing..." And honestly, most torts can survive at much less than 100% perfection, whether habitat of nutritional issues are concerned. But to thrive, they need the best we can provide. Some folks have very deep pockets, or live in extremely favorable climates, so that providing close-to-perfection in housing and is not an issue. Others have to scrimp a bit and use their imagination. Same with diet: some grow their own organically and can provide a huge variety. Others are locked into whatever their local grocer carries.

The key seems to be education, and this site is a virtual cornucopia of acquired wisdom, some from trial and error of their own, and much from the work of others. I've kept torts off and on for 50 years and it is truly amazing how much has been learned/discovered over that time span. And the ability to transmit this information (complete with incredibly detailed pictures) instantly over the internet to all reaches of the globe has produced a golden age for reptile husbandry. I remember back in the dark ages (1973) going to a college library and checking out Archie Carr's seminal volume: Handbook of Turtles, and was so blown away with it that I told the library I had lost it, wrote them a check for the book, and kept it even to this day (surviving an apartment fire along the way). But information was so very hard to come by back then, each nugget was a treasure.

So to castigate folks, who with good intentions but loads of ignorance, adopt tortoises without fully understanding what they are getting into is not the way to go. I was the poster child of "good intentions with loads of ignorance" back when I started - but I learned. Let's keep helping as many people that arrive here seeking advice as we can and we will inadvertently help a whole bunch of torts as well.

Now, I'm putting my dusty soapbox back in the attic...;-)
 

mlb7225

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I am the one of those persons this post is about and I hate it, because at the same time I am not that way. I've kept reef tanks and planted fresh water tanks for 15+ yrs. I love animals. My Aunt has had Tommy the Tortoise for 35-30 years. I see how they take care of him, etc. I felt confident it wouldn't be hard. (This was my mindset at the convention) Last weekend I attended the Reptile Convention and was introduced to Sulcatas. A breeder there had the cutest little guys. Between the hour chat there and the 30 min chat with the LLL folks there at the convention, I had come away with a 24g tank, lights, open ended hide and aspen reptile bedding and a cute little scully. They said I was GOOD TO GO for the first year! (this makes me mad now with what I know) All excited, I come home and find this forum. I do some quick reading, get my eyes OPENED immediately, and shoot off an urgent message to Tom. I allowed myself to make that impulse purchase when I know better because I was getting information that I thought was correct, paired with an already confident mind that I could raise it. I am now getting a crash course in scully care, reading a plethora of information on this site thanks to all of you, and giving everything I can to my little scully. On Monday I placed an order with APcages. In the meantime, I have attempted to close in the open top tank it is in now. Good results on that as I can already see the moisture on the glass. I get my temp/humidity sensors tomorrow so will know for sure where the enclosure sits at. Anyway, not sure why I am saying all this but mostly for the guilt that I feel for being one of 'those' impulse buyers. It's actually making me mad thinking back on it. They actually told me leafy greens like romaine, etc are are their MAIN diet. SMH

With that said, I want to say thank you to you all that continue to publish great information on this site to help the ignorant become not so ignorant anymore!
 
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